I see that today the air quality is pretty good in Utah. What good wood a wood burning ban due today? > Not much.
http://air.utah.gov/currentconditions.php?id=slc
http://air.utah.gov/currentconditions.php?id=slc
Outright Ban On Anything Wood In Utah! Pellets/Cord Wood/Fireplaces
- Thread starter BKVP
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Where did you get that data? I'm curious to see what local area this comes from. How are they differentiating the different data sources? The ironic part is that the worst section of winter usually doesn't remotely compare to the worst section of forest fire season. I remember multiple month stretches of horrid air in Boise from it.
WA State DoE - It is for the whole state I believe. No doubt that wildfires are a problem too, though we have a lot less control over them and they are not a winter issue, which is when this report is from.
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/airhome.html
Here's the publication:
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/airhome.html
Here's the publication:
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Highbeam
Minister of Fire
2005 info. Getting long in the tooth. Almost 10 years ago which is all it would take for a generation of 65 year old trailer park residents to expire.
The US census info is from 2013. There are some current stats on WA state air quality, but most are in spreadsheet form. They are quite interesting and worth a look. These are 2011 numbers:
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/EmissionInventory/PDFs/2011_Comp_Em_Inv_Summary_Upd10.2014.xlsx
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/EmissionInventory/PDFs/2011_Comp_Em_Inv_Summary_Upd10.2014.xlsx
Its definitely a winter cyclical thing. Some interesting tidbits to me that came out of the report. Woodstoves are about 22% of the yearly total for PM2.5. Farming is about 20%. Cars are about 7%. Roads themselves attribute 10%. One of the more intersting is that wildfires account for only about 5%. So effectively in Washington we burn 4 times as much wood for fuel as we lose in wildfires. Also, construction throws as much in the air as wildfires. That seems a little off. But it also reinforces how renewable the energy resource is.
Looking at it, there is relatively equal amounts all year around, just the geography and weather trap it during the winter. It then creates more intense and localized problems.
Looking at it, there is relatively equal amounts all year around, just the geography and weather trap it during the winter. It then creates more intense and localized problems.
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BradleyW
Burning Hunk
Wow, changing over to EPA stoves is a much larger project than I imagined.
There aren't many wood burners in Utah because there just isn't that much available wood. There is wood in the mountains of course, but most of that is owned by the feds.
I have a friend with a nice EPA stove whose wife insists the stove top temp stay over 500 no matter what. I don't even know how she manages to do it. It's like anything else, people will figure out the strangest possible ways to do things wrong.
rasp21
Member
In the vein of the OP, keep in mind that not only is an EPA stove going to emit less particulate matter to air, but with a cat. or secondary burn tube EPA stove, the efficiency is going to result in a 30% to 50% immediate drop in wood consumption due only to the resulting efficiency of the certified stove. Get rid of the BELCH FIRE-SMOKE DRAGONS and see less ppm emmissions and LESS wood consumption overall . Win Win. Utah is definitely going down the wrong trail here, and very short sighted. We need to pay attn. here.
The draft of the new NSPS from EPA does require a moisture meter be supplied with each stove shipped. We'll see in February what the final rule stipulates.
Everyone keep in mind that there are still to this date EPA exempt wood stoves. These have been available since 1988 and continue to sell every day in the country. They are low tech, low cost and with low efficiency, they draft very easily. There was a disservice done when EPA did not stipulate "pellet stoves are exempt " but rather made the statement....affected facilities with air/fuel raatio of 35:1 or greater are exempt.
Excellent point! Two stoves of equal gr/hr but with different efficiencies will both contribute different amounts of PM to the atomosphere over the period of a winter heating season when used in the identical fashion, in the same region etc...
I always thought the 35:1 was put in there so as to not impact open fireplaces. And that VZ and a few others ran through the hole with 35:1 stoves.
OK, we all realize this Utah attempt to ban wood burning is not the correct solution. Lots of good posts, thank you.
But now let's move on.
1) What can we as wood burners offer as aletrnate solutions?
2) Who is willing to organize the wood burners in this affected region to be in person on January 15th in Salt Lake at DEQ headquarters to protest and also speak up in opposition? Remember if this only comes from industry and not the wood burners, it will be perceived solely as self serving. This is YOUR chance to protect your right to burn wood....any wood!
But now let's move on.
1) What can we as wood burners offer as aletrnate solutions?
2) Who is willing to organize the wood burners in this affected region to be in person on January 15th in Salt Lake at DEQ headquarters to protest and also speak up in opposition? Remember if this only comes from industry and not the wood burners, it will be perceived solely as self serving. This is YOUR chance to protect your right to burn wood....any wood!
Rather than reinventing the wheel I suggest Utah legislators look at other states that have already dealt with this issue for guidance. They need to phase out pre-EPA stoves and to ban open burning and fireplaces during an inversion. If the inversion worsens, then they need to the authority to temporarily ban all burning until the air is cleared by a change in the weather. Seeing that automobile emissions are a major issue they should consider adopting Calif. tier 3 standards. Do these measures and then do periodic reviews to see if the program has accomplished its goals.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
How can me make seasoning damp wood and burning dry wood sexy?
At the end of the day anyone burning wet wood right now is going to have to process two years worth of wood in one year, go back on a 1:1 split:burn rotation, and then have dry wood to burn for the rest of their life~ or until they break a hip. I am looking forward to being 20 years ahead on wood someday so I can put down my maul.
Burning seasoned wood is all about investing for the future and behaving like an adult, more or less diametrically opposed to the "now now now" mentality that turns a dial on the wall so a machine can heat the McMansion during a TV show. How may new burners buy a stove, one cord of seasoned wood and then show up here in October out of seasoned wood?
I guess we could make a video, bunch of not fat guys in flannel shirts and heavy boots swinging tools, popping Motrins and quoting The Federalist Papers.
I like this idea. We could produce several videos of EPA wood stoves burning and if anyone sends them to me, I will find a way to submit those videos. Perhaps I will include them in our written comments. If possible, I would show them at the hearing on January 15.
Keep videos short and to the point. "Here is my clean burning EPA stove. Here you can see a fire and now outside, here is my chimney. See, no smoke."
Of course residents of Utah should really get active and I have not heard from any Utah wood burners willing to protect their rights to burn wood and pellets.
Time is running out.
Keep videos short and to the point. "Here is my clean burning EPA stove. Here you can see a fire and now outside, here is my chimney. See, no smoke."
Of course residents of Utah should really get active and I have not heard from any Utah wood burners willing to protect their rights to burn wood and pellets.
Time is running out.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
BKVP, I just got back from browsing Youtube. The single best video about seasoning firewood I saw was from Stihl. I saw two from the EPA, high production quality, factual, but not riveting.
I will check with the wife, her SLR can do HD video, 1080p I think, but we only got a couple hours of daylight to work with here. But I can see the top of the stack from the north side of the house to get the steam plume with the sun behind it.
I will check with the wife, her SLR can do HD video, 1080p I think, but we only got a couple hours of daylight to work with here. But I can see the top of the stack from the north side of the house to get the steam plume with the sun behind it.
We can only hope that residents are more offended by this than we know. It would be ideal to have even a few non-wood burners against this. If the only minority voice in this issue is the VP of a well known stove company then I'm afraid it's hopeless despite intentions.
Excellent! First because as a Interior resident, you were part of a well-run stove change out person and second, because just maybe others will take this issue seriously.
Thank you!
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
My wife is kinda interested in the pre-committed stage. She has won a couple awards as a serious amateur film maker. If she were to take on making a 30 second short film (or two) what question(s) would need to be addressed in the short film, what are the corroborating facts and what is the footnote reference for those facts?
The main thing in short films is making the point, answering the question, making the statement. No time for character arc or budding romance and so on, just make the point artistically, visually and believably.
So the single most important first concept is "What is the question?" or "What is the statement?"
The main thing in short films is making the point, answering the question, making the statement. No time for character arc or budding romance and so on, just make the point artistically, visually and believably.
So the single most important first concept is "What is the question?" or "What is the statement?"
The question is:
Is there much of difference between pre EPA and today's EPA stoves with respect to their contribution to particulate in the atmosphere?
The statement:
First hand experience with regard to having owned both types of stoves, the contribution can be enormous.
I base this upon the fact that this is likely the only way we are going to convince and educate regulators as to the benefits of removing pre EPA stoves in exchange of much cleaner burning EPA stoves.
Is there much of difference between pre EPA and today's EPA stoves with respect to their contribution to particulate in the atmosphere?
The statement:
First hand experience with regard to having owned both types of stoves, the contribution can be enormous.
I base this upon the fact that this is likely the only way we are going to convince and educate regulators as to the benefits of removing pre EPA stoves in exchange of much cleaner burning EPA stoves.
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