Measure Firewood Received - Need Mathemetician

It was stated that this has been SOP Standard Operating Procedure and they have been buying wood from this guy for the last few years. Guy should have been able to figure out what a cord is in a few years of selling wood. Leads me to believe they know they are taking advantage of the buyer.

So if this buyer has been buying a lot of "cords" measured with this guys "special" tape measure they have lost a bunch of money. Three years at $175 per "cord" and I saw something about 12 "cords" this year is 12 x $175 = $2,100 and they said 7 "cords" last year 7 x $175 = $1,225 = $3,325 for the last two years not counting the first year before. They paid for 19 "cords" and got about 5.89 or just under 6 cords. Must be compensating for the gold plating on those splits.

Now I think we can all agree that $3,325 is a lot of money to pay for approx. ("19 cords" or round to 6 cords) = $554 per cord is what was paid when $350 for two cords and the got .62 of 2 cords. Now go 13 "cords" shorted x $175 per = $2,275 dollars worth of wood they paid for and did not receive. Round about quick RE- figures based on what's stated above. Then add in the other year we have no figures on and the buyer likely was hooked for another grand. Three grand around many places buys you many true cords. That's a lot of BTU's and for someone using 4 cords a year they would get screwed out of three plus heating seasons of wood. Not cool!

If the guy is representing them as a cord for $175 then how did they wind up costing $282 or $107 bucks more? Because he shorted his "cords."

bags said:

It was stated that this has been SOP Standard Operating Procedure and they have been buying wood from this guy for the last few years. Guy should have been able to figure out what a cord is in a few years of selling wood. Leads me to believe they know they are taking advantage of the buyer.

So if this buyer has been buying a lot of "cords" measured with this guys "special" tape measure they have lost a bunch of money. Three years at $175 per "cord" and I saw something about 12 "cords" this year is 12 x $175 = $2,100 and they said 7 "cords" last year 7 x $175 = $1,225 = $3,325 for the last two years not counting the first year before. They paid for 19 "cords" and got just under 12 cords. Must be compensating for the gold plating on those splits.

Now I think we can all agree that $3,325 is a lot of money to pay for approx. (19 cords or 19 x .62 = 11.78 or round to 12 cords)=$282 per cord is what was paid. Now go 7 "cords" shorted x $175 per = $1,225 dollars worth of wood they paid for and did not receive. Round about quick figures based on what's stated above. Then add in the other year we have no figures on and the buyer likely was hooked for $2 grand. Two grand around many places buys you 10 true cords. That's a lot of BTU's and for someone using 4 cords a year they would get screwed out of two and a half heating seasons of wood. Not cool!

If the guy is representing them as a cord for $175 then how did they wind up costing $282 or $107 bucks more? Because he shorted his "cords."

Click to expand...

You are off on your math but the logic and intent is correct. He thought he was getting 2 cords for every .62 not 1. So if you want to multiply by 19 you should half that number which means he paid $3,325 for a little less than 6 cord. Which equates to about $550 a cord. Sorry man...I would be standing there waiting for my next delivery with either a cop or my shotgun depending on how I felt that day.

......which is exactly why the OP should just ask him his method of measuring. His response will shed a lot of light on whether or not he has a case in front of a judge. We all know he has a case on the personal level.

If the seller gets up in small claims court and says something to the effect that his measurements are based on "XYZ" and is priced accordingly based on market value of a FULL cord, and no receipts to be used as evidence, then the OP may be SOL.

Just playing Devil's Advocate......

You're buying face cords.

blacktail said:

You're buying face cords.

Click to expand...

Boom! And the Judge's gavel drops.

Case in point.

HybridFyre said:

You are off on your math but the logic and intent is correct. He thought he was getting 2 cords for every .62 not 1. So if you want to multiply by 19 you should half that number which means he paid $3,325 for a little less than 6 cord. Which equates to about $550 a cord. Sorry man...I would be standing there waiting for my next delivery with either a cop or my shotgun depending on how I felt that day.

Click to expand...

Hey Thanks! I was distracted by the kids and you are correct. Thanks for pointing it out. And the TV is on....LOL! It was a simple brain fart. I am a contractor and I always double check my measurements but didn't here. Funny thing is when and if I miss something it is an inch too long or an inch too short. Never like an 1/8" or 13/16". Well never say never but the 1 inch deal seems to be more prevalent.

I knew they were getting shorted just under a cord and a half. That's a lot of wood and money. I agree with the shotgun or cop. Just don't get how two not so full pickup trucks of wood equals 2 cords. Special tape like my special on the fly math up there.

I recently bought and stacked 3 face cords or one full cord. It came in a pickup truck bed and a trailer.

Still a face cord for $175............. Not sure of pricing in NJ but $75 here. I have seen them for $50- $60 also. How far is this guy driving for his delivery? OP said they stacked it themselves too.

bags said:

Still a face cord for $175............. Not sure of pricing in NJ but $75 here. I have seen them for $50- $60 also. How far is this guy driving for his delivery? OP said they stacked it too.

Click to expand...

If he's in Bergen Cty. (no clue if he is), then I could see $175/delivered face cord, all day long.

byQ said:

At least he isn't charging much for a 'cord', only $175. Let's see, you got .62 of a cord for $175 so at this rate a real cord would cost ~$282. That is, with the delivery you got you would have had to pay and additional $107 to get an actual cord by the way this guy measures out his wood.

So if you were to order 2.25 cords and he followed his same measuring technique you would get (.62) x 2.25 = 1.395 cords, in fact. You could pay him $175 after it was dumped and you would have your $175/cord as he advertised. That is you would have approximately 2 cords for $175 x 2 = $350 (including the 1st short cord, .62 + 1.396 = ~2 cords).

Click to expand...

.......

AnalogKid said:

......which is exactly why the OP should just ask him his method of measuring. His response will shed a lot of light on whether or not he has a case in front of a judge. We all know he has a case on the personal level.

If the seller gets up in small claims court and says something to the effect that his measurements are based on "XYZ" and is priced accordingly based on market value of a FULL cord, and no receipts to be used as evidence, then the OP may be SOL.

Just playing Devil's Advocate......

Click to expand...

That absolutely wouldn't work for the seller in court. There is standardized measuring for wood. It's either a face cord, or a cord. If he was selling face cords and telling the buyer it's a cord, that's no good. I can't see the seller being in any sort of position to fight this if called out on it. Also, is it a legit business, or someone just doing it for extra cash? I would make sure he is paying the appropriate taxes if he's not willing to deliver what is owed.

AnalogKid said:

If he's in Bergen Cty. (no clue if he is), then I could see $175/delivered face cord, all day long.

Click to expand...

Wow! I know prices are higher up in the north east but the guys around here get laughed at asking more than $85 to $100. I'm about 30 miles south west of Cincinnati. Go farther south and wood prices drop more. I've seen true cords around here for $150. Sounds like the OP needs to verify some stuff but I think they would have heard face cord vs. cord. Then again many who buy their wood might not know what is what. I agree it would be a hard one to prove what has been actually delivered over the years but they have pictures and evidence sitting there now. Still chaps my azz people misleading and putting the bolts to others. I have bought wood before but usually do my own. Taking a break this year but I have a decent stash.

claydogg84 said:

That absolutely wouldn't work for the seller in court. There is standardized measuring for wood. It's either a face cord, or a cord. If he was selling face cords and telling the buyer it's a cord, that's no good. I can't see the seller being in any sort of position to fight this if called out on it. Also, is it a legit business, or someone just doing it for extra cash? I would make sure he is paying the appropriate taxes if he's not willing to deliver what is owed.

Click to expand...

I'm under the impression that the buyer was assuming he was buying full cords, but may not be certain he was or wasn't. Why? Because how could you purchase that many 'cords' (12 or something?) before questioning whether you were getting what you were supposed to be?

And you final point is a good one. If this seller was so brazen to do what he is being accused of, wouldn't you think he would request cash? I mean, even the legitimate contractors I ever deal with, they always prefer cash. I would think a crook would accept nothing but.

bags said:

Sounds like the OP needs to verify some stuff but I think they would have heard face cord vs. cord. Then again many who buy their wood might not know what is what.

Click to expand...

This is really what it boils down to. Lots of open ended questions. Everything is really just speculation based on what Info we have to work with.

AnalogKid said:

I'm under the impression that the buyer was assuming he was buying full cords, but may not be certain he was or wasn't. Why? Because how could you purchase that many 'cords' (12 or something?) before questioning whether you were getting what you were supposed to be?

And you final point is a good one. If this seller was so brazen to do what he is being accused of, wouldn't you think he would request cash? I mean, even the legitimate contractors I ever deal with, they always prefer cash. I would think a crook would accept nothing but.

Click to expand...

Those are good points.

blacktail said:

You're buying face cords.

Click to expand...

Read the bolded, I would push this issue if that's the case

BUYING FIREWOOD IN NEW JERSEY
■ New Jersey’s regulations require that except for
packaged firewood and whole logs, sellers of firewood
are required to sell firewood by using the
term “cord” or fractional parts of a cord. A cord is
defined as the amount of firewood which would
fill a space of 128 cubic feet, when the firewood
pieces are stacked in a compact manner with individual
pieces touching and parallel to each other.
■ It is unlawful for a seller of firewood to advertise
or sell the firewood by terms such as “face cord,”
“rack,” “pile,” “truckload,” etc.

Click to expand...

The term face cord shouldn't come into play because according to the statute it's unlawful to sell wood labeled as a face cord.

Msbree, time to sick the dogs on him on the next delivery. Tell him they are pomeranians, and those aren't bites they're licks.

Please call the weights and measures, if not for you think of the next customer, this truly needs to be stopped.

Contact NJ Weights & Measures, and coordinate with them, to order a "cord" for delivery. Have NJ Weights & Measures nearby, and after delivery, get a paid receipt in writing detailing how much wood for what price prior to the sting rolling in, then have W&M roll in, hand the receipt to them and let them take over.

Hogwildz said:

Contact NJ Weights & Measures, and coordinate with them, to order a "cord" for delivery. Have NJ Weights & Measures nearby, and after delivery, get a paid receipt in writing detailing how much wood for what price prior to the sting rolling in, then have W&M roll in, hand the receipt to them and let them take over.

Click to expand...

And video it!

Video what? The dogs chasing them, buck shot peppered azz, or the cuff and stuff...... OP hasn't checked back at all and might have realized there was a misunderstanding or something. It'd be a real cold day in hell before you'd see me pay $175 for a face cord. I guess some areas can get premium bucks for wood. Some up north east are paying double what we pay for pellets around these parts too. If they can find them in stock. Crazy pricing. They pull that here and homie will be CSS before they can hang price change signs.

msbree said:

I'm SCREWED He has NEVER given me a receipt for ANY delivery over the years! It would be his word against mine! The only thing I have are check receipts made out to him!

Click to expand...

Not at all.
His selling wood to you without a reciept is a violation in itself, that is why the law is written that way.
He is guilty of that alone x how ever many checks you can come up with.
Checks don't lie, they are perfect evidence.

msbree said:

Really? So this translates into just a little over 1/2 cord?

Click to expand...

It's like 2 weird face cords, which are usually around 1/3rd of a cord. (Face cords are a useless measurement, I assume most are at 16 inch lengths, thus 1/3rd of a cord.)

Any update on this? I'm genuinely curious to hear how it turns out.