First year pellet consumption seems high

I've gone through about 2 tons so far. I have my Eco-65 in an unfinished basement. About 900 sq. ft. per floor. I am so surprised at how hard it is to get the heat to the main level. My Uncle just built a new house (with a finished basement) and heats his whole house fairly easily with the Eco-35 so we figured we would have no problem heating a comparably sized house with an unfinished basement with the Eco-65. Wrong! It's amazing how much a difference a finished/unfinished basement makes. In hindsight I would have put the stove upstairs.

Seven bags left from ton #4. Just picked up ton #5 today. I figure three more ton to go. 3000 sq. ft. Basically two, two story houses hooked together. 73 degree's right now. ( 9* outside) Haven't used any propane or electric since the first of September, won't use any until first of May. Add another stove and forget about the oil burner.

alternativeheat said:

Once in a while we get someone in here with a success story regarding a single pellet stove installed in the basement. Usually that is with a fairly small house. much more likely is the single stove working in the living space or two stoves, one up and one in the basement. The two stove scenario generally doesn't use any more pellets than the single stove in the basement theory. FWIW.

Actually how big is the house, how many SQ FT. ?

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My experience is the need for two stoves - actually seem to use less pellets using the Harman in the basement at a 72-75 degree setting (room temp) and a smaller stove in main living area. Last year I just had the Harman in the basement and it couldn't keep my upstairs warm. This year, looks like I will be toasty.

Part of the problem, as I hope you can see, is that you've not made the mental transition from a central heating system to a pellet stove. You're trying to heat the whole house with a stove that probably pushes out half the BTU of your central system and apparently have not closed off unused rooms. Either move the stove to the first floor or look into a Harman pellet boiler or furnace, but if you go furnace don't expect lots less pellet use, just more even heat and MAYBE less expense depending on the expense of your old primary source.

EDIT: One more thing. The stove can also be part of the ambiance of your decor but you seem to be treating it as a basement relegated home heating appliance. As I said, if you keep the stove you have a bit of a mental / philosophical transition to make.

Is your 2,600+ SQ FT number including your basement too or is it the other two floors in your colonial? Right now I am just into my 3rd ton and am averaging right at 1 ton per month and on track to hit this average again. I started Oct 18th and am heating 2,350 SQ FT on two levels keeping very warm. 76- 77 at the stove location and 70 plus everywhere else. I have only ran the P68 thus far. Lots of windows and glass doors with mostly vaulted ceilings.

It's too warm for me but the wife and kids are happy. I have also been wasteful in pellet use running it thru the paces to see what it is capable of doing. The 61 is not much smaller than the 68 so you should be about where I am in the amount of pellets used but every set up and home is different. I am not in MA but we have had some abnormally cold weather here in KY. October was colder than normal and November was a freak show. December about normal yearly averages.

I agree with others here about getting your stove up out of the basement. If you have 2,600 SQ FT upstairs and not counting the 1,300 SQ FT in the basement it makes more sense. We really need some accurate SQ FT figures and such to offer beneficial advice. My question is what does the + equal? 2,600 plus the basement? The boxed compartmentalized floor plan is not helping you. Lower ceiling heights are though. If you move it upstairs your return air will still move the pellet stove heat if you have a central system. If so what is that?

bogieb said:

My experience is the need for two stoves - actually seem to use less pellets using the Harman in the basement at a 72-75 degree setting (room temp) and a smaller stove in main living area. Last year I just had the Harman in the basement and it couldn't keep my upstairs warm. This year, looks like I will be toasty.

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Bogie, Where are you in terms of pellets used so far?

alternativeheat said:

Once in a while we get someone in here with a success story regarding a single pellet stove installed in the basement.

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ME

Just over 1 ton burned here also..
started mid October but many Warming sunshine days of low burn and few days in a row this month where too warm to burn.

We have a 2400 ft ranch style house, and have 3 pellet stoves.

The layout of the house is wide open with no hallways to interfere with air/heat movement.

One stove at far east end, and two stoves in the west end of the house.

We have one small Whitfield, one large Whitfield and one Quadrafire automatic (model 1000)

We use the size and number of stoves depending on the weather/temp


As mentioned, pellet stoves are space heaters and generally do not provide the BTU output of a central heating system.

This said, we can usually heat easily with 1 or 2 of our stoves during most weather conditions we get here in the PACNW.

The Quad 1000 can heat the entire house, but will consume a lot of pellets.

We would go through 3 ton on average during most winters using the single stove.

We run nut shells in the two Whits and then during really cold times may augment with the Quad to get a quick rise in temp if we need to.

Location of the stove is everything.

Venting does not have to be limited to a single preexisting chimney.
Most pellet stoves can be vented directly out the wall with proper pipe and a wall thimble.

All of our stoves are direct vent.
They are also far easier to clean as well, as being very cost effective.


The direct vent set up allows a wide selection of choices for the stoves location.
An outside wall access is all that's needed.

Of course, decks, shrubbery, trees, yada yada yada are always a factor in location.

Don't lock yourself to one spot in the house to try and heat the place, as it does not always work.

I am a very avid fan of the multiple stove concept, and have been for a long time.

Running one large stove "Nuts to the bar" to heat the entire house has some consequences, the biggest being the heavy thermal stressing on the metal of the stove.

Most stoves are built with the heat ex changer welded into the unit, and over time, running wide loose will cause irreparable stresses on these tubes and ultimately a failure.

Same goes for the fire pot and other internal components that are subject to the high heat.

Running at a mid setting is far easier on the unit and the overall life of the stove can be many decades with minimal worries.

We run our stoves just above the low setting, and when needed, bring the second stove on line.


Just some thoughts

Snowy

Nice post Snowy.

CladMaster said:

Nice post Snowy.

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I agree - with the caveat that in addition to size of house and insulation/leakage, one's heating zone has a significant impact on BTU usage.

I'm burnt almost 3 tons so far. I have a 2600 sq ft house with a ton of glass in my great room. When temp gets below 20 I crank it up at full blast and the house stays between 67-70. Doesn't sound like 3 tons is unrealistic to me.

woodmakesheat said:

I agree - with the caveat that in addition to size of house and insulation/leakage, one's heating zone has a significant impact on BTU usage.

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Neat chart - I've never seen one with zone 5 beneath lake Ontario in NY (green area in the western part of the state) It makes perfect sense to me though - we see a milder temp with the wind coming over the lake and picking up some warmth. We sure do see the snow too.

Speaking of Snowy - can you point me in the direction with some more information about irreparable damage sustained from extensive running a pellet stove full tilt. I ask because I push my PAH wide open about 20hrs/day. Now, this is only a 4lbs/hr 25,000 BTU stove, so it's not a heat monster, and it appears to be pretty well built, so I'm not sure I have much to worry about, but I'm always interested more information.

bags said:

Bogie, Where are you in terms of pellets used so far?

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I'm somewhere between 1.5 and 2 tons. Hard to give exact numbers since I've had to get pellets from HD and Wally World (6-10 bags at a time) since the Currans are so crappy this year. I think I'm close to two tons (some of that was left over from last year), Have two tons in the basement and still have 40 bags to pick up from my pre-buy of Currans.

Last year I had the Harman installed in the middle of winter and went thru almost 3 tons (plus had to supplement with propane boiler on really cold days). This year I started heating with pellet stove exclusively starting late September, but didn't install second stove until shortly before Thanksgiving. I'm currently going thru about 1.5 bags a day between the two stoves right now. Will have a better idea once the really cold air hits.

Watcher1 said:

I have a 30x40 log cabin full basement concrete blocks. my 3500 corn/pellet stove is on the north wall in the basement. I made up some ducking to get right from the front of the stove to the stairs up. I run 2 small fans and a ceiling fan. Front of the house is 1 big room north is 2 bedrooms and a bath. I think I have used about 85 bu. of corn and 15 bags of pellets since mid October. House is 66 to 72 or 4 but we ain't freezing either. We turn it down at night up in the mornings down in the afternoons. Gas helps in the morning for a half hr or so. We are in Wisconsin it's 6 out right now, but we got by cheap in most of December. Nov was colder. Point being big house 3 tons? not so bad. we've done for sure 2.5 tons of corn and as I said I mix some pellets.

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Same here, different stove but heating an old redone farm house 2 story. I'm through almost 2 tom of pellets (somersets) and 2 ton of shelled corn. I don't spare the throttle one bit on the stove, she's running balls out, all the time, including now. Keeps the entire house at 70 degrees. I'm happy.

I look at it this way..... The stove is meant to run hard. It's built for it. If I wanted a pretty face, I'd have purchased a fake gas log set....

acammer said:

Neat chart - I've never seen one with zone 5 beneath lake Ontario in NY (green area in the western part of the state) It makes perfect sense to me though - we see a milder temp with the wind coming over the lake and picking up some warmth. We sure do see the snow too.

Speaking of Snowy - can you point me in the direction with some more information about irreparable damage sustained from extensive running a pellet stove full tilt. I ask because I push my PAH wide open about 20hrs/day. Now, this is only a 4lbs/hr 25,000 BTU stove, so it's not a heat monster, and it appears to be pretty well built, so I'm not sure I have much to worry about, but I'm always interested more information.

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I' want to hear on that too ion as much as for 30 years bow I've been hammering on 2 biofuel stoves, wore the first one out, not the stove itself, but the mechanicals were getting long in the tooth. This one has been going strong and basically balls out for 12 years now with, of course consumable replacements like drives and a new viewing glass but structurally, it's fine (thats on pellets and corn and sometimes straight corn or sometimes straight pellets...depending on cost naturally.

Wanted to know how I was doing on the pellet burn also this fall/winter. Today I counted up 169 bags burned in the Harman PB105 since October 1. Heating about 2800 sq. ft including an unfinished concrete block basement. Upstairs on the main floor the thermostat is set at 71 and the upstairs at 65. Basement is at 77. Yesterday the temperature dropped down to 1 degree and it was the first day this year that I have burned 4 bags.

SidecarFlip said:

I' want to hear on that too ion as much as for 30 years bow I've been hammering on 2 biofuel stoves, wore the first one out, not the stove itself, but the mechanicals were getting long in the tooth. This one has been going strong and basically balls out for 12 years now with, of course consumable replacements like drives and a new viewing glass but structurally, it's fine (thats on pellets and corn and sometimes straight corn or sometimes straight pellets...depending on cost naturally.

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I better add one caveat and that is I did warp the front of the stove, above the door in the center (thats the hottest part of the firebox) running straight corn at maximum delivery PPH for days on end a couple years ago that necessitated a trip to the shop and some metal work with the gas axe and hammers and some confined space welding (I welded in a 1x1 angle across the top front, above the door). I know now that the stove is capable of BTU output in excess of it's design parameters and I keep the PPH below maximum feed rate. All is good.

I have to get a Harman next time around, just because. I have the urge to fiddle with one.....

SmokeEater said:

Wanted to know how I was doing on the pellet burn also this fall/winter. Today I counted up 169 bags burned in the Harman PB105 since October 1. Heating about 2800 sq. ft including an unfinished concrete block basement. Upstairs on the main floor the thermostat is set at 71 and the upstairs at 65. Basement is at 77. Yesterday the temperature dropped down to 1 degree and it was the first day this year that I have burned 4 bags.

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Is your fluid storage all contained within the unit/plumbing or is there a bulk storage d/a tank?

Snowy... Thermal induced stress comes from expansion/contraction cycles, not maintained heat. Get 'er hot and keep 'er hot is just as good as getting her warm and keeping her warm. Really no difference so long as you don't exceed the design parameters (like I inadventerntly did because my stove allows very flexible inputs that most stoves don't.

Besides, my glass is always clean or a light white haze....

acammer said:

There are so many variables in the equation to determine if you're usage is on par with what you should expect. What's the home size, and what temp are you keeping it at?

I looked at the P61a manual to see if it listed a maximum feed rate, or a efficiency rating, along with it's BTU output rating - it doesn't give either. So, we'll make some assumptions to get at the feed rate. 61,000 BTU in a 75% efficient stove (guesstimate) would require an input BTU of ~82,000 BTUs. A pound of wood pellets has right around 8,200BTUs (this varies a LOT depending on brand, easily +/- 500BTU) so that would require a feed rate of 10lbs/hr. So, at 10lbs/hr that stove can chew through a bag of pellets in 4hrs, or 240lbs/day at full power. That'll eat 3 tons in 25 days, assuming its run flat out the entire time. So, it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility to be consuming as much pellet fuel as you indicate.

If your 61,000 BTU stove needs oil help when it's <25*F out it sounds like you have a major BTU load in that home. If the stove is just keeping up at lets say 30*F at full power that would be like nearly 1.5 million BTU/day of heat required for your home @ 30*F ambient. That must be a pretty big house, or its pretty drafty. To put some context around that my daily BTU load @ 30*F is right around 500,000 - that's for a 2,100sqft double-wide/modular on a full basement. Stove is the finished section of the basement. Air is pulled from an air return in that room through the HVAC system and pushed around the house. Ambient temp is 70*F or better in every room upstairs, and 82*F in the finished basement. My stove runs ~20hrs/day on a 30*F day, 2 bags of pellets at the 4lbs/hr max feed the stove is capable of.

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Just to clarify when a stove is rated at 61000 btu per hour that is the btus of pellets it chews through. So 61,000 actually amounts to 7.5 pounds of good pellets an hour. Due to many factors heating appliances tend to be rated in the amount of fuels it eats not what you get our in your living space...

Trickyrick said:

Just to clarify when a stove is rated at 61000 btu per hour that is the btus of pellets it chews through. So 61,000 actually amounts to 7.5 pounds of good pellets an hour. Due to many factors heating appliances tend to be rated in the amount of fuels it eats not what you get our in your living space...

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Thats a fair statement but easy to calculate approximate heat output by taking your benchmark 61000btu input and dividing that by the efficency rating (most stoves run at least 85%) efficient so I'll use 85%. That equals 51850 btu (useable output).

Your mileage will vary depending on input btu, efficiency rating, quality of fuel and how clean the stove is of course.

GIPPER said:

It's not a wood stove .why would you put it in the basement any way?

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Read the first post. It's in the basement because he decided to try to use it as a furnace with ducting. Can't do that if it's upstairs. Not a good choice on his part BUT it was his choice.

All these people chiming in about how much THEY use in no way helps the OP with his situation. He was educated right off the bat that his usage doing what he's doing is normal and he'll have to live with it until he changes to a furnace, which is what he needs to heat his house of 'boxes', as he put it, evenly. He wants even heat throughout his house, which can't be done with a space heater in one room, no matter how many fans you put around the house if it's a closed floor plan.

tjnamtiw said:

Read the first post. It's in the basement because he decided to try to use it as a furnace with ducting. Can't do that if it's upstairs.

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Yeah but won't need ducting if he moves it upstairs.

Richard_Harvey said:

Harman p61a installed in the basement with somewhat elaborate air ducting system to route heated air off the air heat exchanger directly up stairs spilling out onto the first floor at 3 locations, 2 distribution fans etc.

So I expected to need to drive this thing pretty hard most of the time and it runs pretty much full tilt all the time, when it gets to near 50 degrees outside I do back it down some. When I hit sub 25 degrees I'm forced to add some warmth from oil heat but my home is large and 2 floors so I'm getting good and acceptable performance out of the Harman.

Pellet consumption is higher than I expected despite the full throttle use noted above. It's just January 1st and it's not really been that cold and I'm already at the 3 tons used mark. Purchased 5 tons of New England Preimum as I was told it was a good choice but now I'm wondering. How are all of you doing, especially in a climate like my location in central New England.

Bigger question would be it there a pellet brand or type that would yield this same (or more) heat output but less consumption.

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Thought I'd bring it to the forefront.........