How can WE help cooperate Big Box get good pellets for US?

WNCBear said:

A thought...

A lot of people organize locally and bypass the big box altogether by directly contacting a mutually agreed upon pellet manufacturer and ordering a truck, or two, as a co-op.

A board/forum like this is a good place to start. See if there are others in your area who have interest. Coordinate division, delivery, etc.

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good idea as long as someone in the buyers club has a forklift available..
I think a tractor trailer load of pellets will only make 1 stop and the customer unloads.

I know of a co-op that offloads at a local equipment rental yard. The owner of the yard has equipment to load/unload. For those taking smaller loads, it's customary to express gratitude. $$$

This year I had 14 tons delivered to a secondary site (i.e. the truck made an extra stop). The added delivery cost was $200. I rented a forklift for a day, paid for warehouse space to store them for a month, and transported them in manageable quantities to my house.

All costs figured in, I came out ahead of big box prices and got exactly what I wanted.

I was at the local Menards yesterday and Indeck was 4.39 the better brands were 5.99 I tried a few of the high priced ones and about the only thing I learned was there was a little more ash in the Indecks. The extra ash doesn't bother me near as much as payjng the extra money for the socalled premium grade.

BigJohnfromCT said:

X2. Leave the crap in the stores BUT, with respect to HD, fill out the opinion survey on the bottom of the receipt when u buy something and let them know what u think. I complained long and hard about the lack of open registers for check out in my local store and, voila, more open registers. Was it MY complaining? I doubt it but maybe mine helped.[/q

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BigJohnfromCT said:

X2. Leave the crap in the stores BUT, with respect to HD, fill out the opinion survey on the bottom of the receipt when u buy something and let them know what u think. I complained long and hard about the lack of open registers for check out in my local store and, voila, more open registers. Was it MY complaining? I doubt it but maybe mine helped.

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I know for a fact that some HD stores will order pellets based in part on feedback from customers so the conjecture expressed in this thread is not accurate. If you think about it, they'll make money on the cheap stuff as well as the "best" pellets, whatever than means, because whatever wholesale price they pay will be less than the price you'll pay to buy them.

Peterfield said:

I know for a fact that some HD stores will order pellets based in part on feedback from customers so the conjecture expressed in this thread is not accurate. If you think about it, they'll make money on the cheap stuff as well as the "best" pellets, whatever than means, because whatever wholesale price they pay will be less than the price you'll pay to buy them.

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You used the word "some" so the so-called conjecture is, by your own admission, at least partially correct. I've actually worked with big box buyers and from my experience it's totally correct. Bulk buys are done from corporate and, although opinions are taken into consideration, in the end they buy what they can get most cheaply. Period. Sometimes they offer a choice BUT that choice is still price-dependent.

briansol said:

last year they had GS
this year they had stove chow

i'm not complaining

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Whats the difference ?

Now and then box stores actually do get in good pellets though, like Blazer or AWF White Pine. The difference between a product like these and GS or SC is striking . After using these quality brands or similar then one can easily categorize GS and SC together and wonder how they ever won the Premium banner to be displayed on the label.. Certainly they should be restricted from displaying the low ash feature because that neither one is.

But hey, they all heat a house, just depends what one is willing to put up with ( or in some cases literally what is available to buy)..

alternativeheat said:

Whats the difference ?

Now and then box stores actually do get in good pellets though, like Blazer or AWF White Pine. The difference between a product like these and GS or SC is striking . After using these quality brands or similar then one can easily categorize GS and SC together and wonder how they ever won the Premium banner to be displayed on the label.. Certainly they should be restricted from displaying the low ash feature because that neither one is.

But hey, they all heat a house, just depends what one is willing to put up with ( or in some cases literally what is available to buy)..

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Very true. Pellets are wood. Burning wood throws heat. Heat is what we want. The difference boils down to the amount of heat created and the maintenance required to create said heat. IMNTBHO GS are consistently high maintenance pellets. Blazers and Lignetics are generally lower ash thus lower maintenance fuel. Of course brands vary within themselves lot-to-lot and year-to-year so we look for the most consistent product at the best price. As for "premium" I speculate that the term can either be bought or that the latitude of its application is so great as to make it virtually meaningless, kind of like "low fat" or "organic."

WNCBear said:

A thought...

A lot of people organize locally and bypass the big box altogether by directly contacting a mutually agreed upon pellet manufacturer and ordering a truck, or two, as a co-op.

A board/forum like this is a good place to start. See if there are others in your area who have interest. Coordinate division, delivery, etc.

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While I'm sure, and actually know for a fact that folks do the above, it is actually a very small insignificant number. Not even a blip on the radar screen. The BBs sell these loss leaders for a reason. It gets people in the store. Pellet stoves are mainstream. I was in TSC yesterday grabbing a ton of MWPs. In the short time I was there numerous people with other stuff in their carts were grabbing pellets by the bag. Most of us here on this forum tend to buy by the ton while the overwhelming majority of pellet stove owners can't do that and purchase by the bag. They make more money selling by the bag. The BB prices this year are where they "belong". I don't like it, but it is what it is. If we ever get to a bottom with the price of oil we might see a drop at the end of the season. Remains to be seen.

F4jock said:

Very true. Pellets are wood. Burning wood throws heat. Heat is what we want. The difference boils down to the amount of heat created and the maintenance required to create said heat. IMNTBHO GS are consistently high maintenance pellets. Blazers and Lignetics are generally lower ash thus lower maintenance fuel. Of course brands vary within themselves lot-to-lot and year-to-year so we look for the most consistent product at the best price. As for "premium" I speculate that the term can either be bought or that the latitude of its application is so great as to make it virtually meaningless, kind of like "low fat" or "organic."

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Yes variation within a product is real, my beloved Okie DF pellets this year are 8700 BTU where last year they were 9200. Still very low ash though. And still a very high quality pellet. I dumped the first bag in Sat night, a mix with GS actually that were in the hopper and have not scraped the pot since. By now the GS are purged I'm sure. With GS I was scraping twice or even three times a day. My glass has not yet collected any serious residue either ( I just cleaned the stove Sat)..

F4jock said:

You used the word "some" so the so-called conjecture is, by your own admission, at least partially correct. I've actually worked with big box buyers and from my experience it's totally correct. Bulk buys are done from corporate and, although opinions are taken into consideration, in the end they buy what they can get most cheaply. Period. Sometimes they offer a choice BUT that choice is still price-dependent.

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I was simply referring to the broad assumption that all stores are like that. Many are exactly as you depict. I still maintain that if I can stock good pellets at $200 a ton, knowing I can sell them for $250 a ton, isn't that the same as me buying cheap pellets at $150 a ton knowing I can sell them for $200 a ton? With the sky is falling mentality of pellet buyers these days, I wouldn't be too concerned about selling either grade of pellet.

Peterfield said:

I was simply referring to the broad assumption that all stores are like that. Many are exactly as you depict. I still maintain that if I can stock good pellets at $200 a ton, knowing I can sell them for $250 a ton, isn't that the same as me buying cheap pellets at $150 a ton knowing I can sell them for $200 a ton? With the sky is falling mentality of pellet buyers these days, I wouldn't be too concerned about selling either grade of pellet.

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Although I agree with your "sky is falling" statement IMO you are forgetting a far more important fact; the essentially price-driven consumer. I contend that the fifty-dollar net price difference you stated is enough to tilt the average buyer to the cheaper offering thus there IS a volume difference even though the retailer makes the same profit no matter which he sells.

F4jock said:

Although I agree with your "sky is falling" statement IMO you are forgetting a far more important fact; the essentially priced-driven consumer. I contend that the fifty-dollar net price difference you stated is enough to tilt the average buyer to the cheaper offering thus there IS a volume difference even though the retailer makes the same profit no matter which he sells.

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And that profit isn't anywhere close to $50 per ton....

Harman Lover 007 said:

And that profit isn't anywhere close to $50 per ton....

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That's their issue. I just buy the stuff.

WNCBear said:

A lot of people organize locally and bypass the big box altogether by
directly contacting a mutually agreed upon pellet manufacturer and ordering a truck, or two, as a co-op.

See if there are others in your area who have interest. Coordinate division, delivery, etc.

Click to expand...

Also coordinate with someone with a big yard for the truck to turn in,
and also has a forklift...

F4jock said:

Although I agree with your "sky is falling" statement IMO you are forgetting a far more important fact; the essentially priced-driven consumer. I contend that the fifty-dollar net price difference you stated is enough to tilt the average buyer to the cheaper offering thus there IS a volume difference even though the retailer makes the same profit no matter which he sells.

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Totally agree, I forgot to mention bottom-feeder consumers that are most prevalent and gave birth to the success of big box stores. Some bemoan the loss of mom & pop businesses but if I can save $100 buying the same amount of groceries at Market Basket instead of the smaller local food store, I have to yield to that on occasion.

rona said:

I was at the local Menards yesterday and Indeck was 4.39 the better brands were 5.99 I tried a few of the high priced ones and about the only thing I learned was there was a little more ash in the Indecks. The extra ash doesn't bother me near as much as payjng the extra money for the socalled premium grade.

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That's great! Spend your money and deal with ash as you will. No shame in that, or exercising your power as a consumer.

The point of the thread, however, was to consider ways to get big box stores to get "good pellets". Clearly the OP isn't happy with his choices, and settling for what he deems to be lesser pellets isn't satisfactory.

In the event that he is unsuccessful in convincing his local BB to get "good pellets", avoiding the BB altogether may be a reasonable alternative that allows him to get what he considers a better pellet.

teddyturnpickle said:

Box stores could care less what you think. I stopped by a TSC tonight to see what they had in stock (it's an addiction), they had a skid of greenways with about 6 bags on it and several full skids of indecks still wrapped up next to it. I burn greenways currently, so i didn't want them, but have yet to try indecks. The guy that works there proceeds to tell me that they are not aloud to open up a new skid and sell me any until those 6 bags of greenways are gone. I've never been to a store whose sole purpose was selling stuff and then not sell me stuff when i wanted to buy it, lol. That tells you how much they care about you or what you think.

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Simple answer..... Just buy the entire skid.

SidecarFlip said:

Simple answer..... Just buy the entire skid.

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I guess I am lucky with my local TSC. Went there to buy a few different brands to try and the clerk volunteered to bring a couple of tons around to the self-help area so I buy a few bags of each.

WNCBear said:

That's great! Spend your money and deal with ash as you will. No shame in that, or exercising your power as a consumer.

The point of the thread, however, was to consider ways to get big box stores to get "good pellets". Clearly the OP isn't happy with his choices, and settling for what he deems to be lesser pellets isn't satisfactory.

In the event that he is unsuccessful in convincing his local BB to get "good pellets", avoiding the BB altogether may be a reasonable alternative that allows him to get what he considers a better pellet.

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Why does one feel compelled to buy from BB anyway? My Do-It has Lignetics at competitive prices AND a reliable more supply. Total no-brainer.

F4jock said:

Why does one feel ompelked to buy from BB anyway? My Do-It has Lignetics at competitive prices AND a reliable more supply. Total no-brainer.

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Agree completely. I avoid BB when possible and practical. The intent of my original post was to point out that there are alternatives to the BB; alternatives that can be equally cost effective without compromise in pellet quality.

F4jock said:

Why does one feel ompelked to buy from BB anyway? My Do-It has Lignetics at competitive prices AND a reliable more supply. Total no-brainer.

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Many posts about the lack of availability of alternates for reasonable prices here in Southern NH (consider yourself lucky). And yeah, it's nice that availability is OK so far this year such that we can complain about the lack of quality alternatives whereas I only have 150+ tons available at the local Lowes + 2 HDs. I tried yesterday to find what was available at the local Agway and Ace Hardware - high prices for buying single bags, no open pallets, unhelpful workers. It's no wonder the wild-west atmosphere at HD and Lowes wins out. No hassle, fixed price whether 1 bag or a ton. Oh, and FSU's and other brands the BB are selling have been decent - can go 2 weeks without any sort of maintenance if I desire (I usually prefer to clean once a week so far.)

F4jock said:

Why does one feel ompelked to buy from BB anyway? My Do-It has Lignetics at competitive prices AND a reliable more supply. Total no-brainer.

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Agree also.
My stove dealer has early buy in the spring for Energex hardwoods and the low ash Golden Pellets.0.5
I get 4- 5 tons from him but still end up checking out HD just to see.. Half mile from my house..
this year Blazers came in which I knew nothing about.. bought couple bags, burned 1 bag and I was hooked..
came back next day and bought 30 some bags even though my basement was full.
There is no other brand they have sold so far that I would have done that with.
Most all the HD Pellets will keep you warm so it's just a matter of how much ash u want to deal with since Price is usually not an issue..average 250.00 ton. Still, I would rather support local dealers.
Unless they get into gouging with the price...

F4jock said:

That's their issue. I just buy the stuff.

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So do I....and happy to do it. Just trying to point out that there isn't that kind of profit margin in pellets at the BB stores.