Harman PC45 Irratic Shut Downs

Gimme Fuel · Jan 6, 2015

Hi all,

After searching through the vast halls of stove knowledge on this forum, I have come up with a myriad of causes for my stove's symptoms but no concurrence leading me towards a solution.

Here are the facts: Stove has been fully cleaned head to toe, all blowers clean and spin freely. ESP (white wire) clean. Fines cavity cleaned. Burn only premium hardwood pellets. I always run in Stove Temp mode as my old farm house needs constant heat. Oh, I can understand wiring diagrams and technical jargon so, don't hold back.

Symptoms: Stove won't consistently run above heat level of about 2.5 (stove temp/auto mode) without periodically shutting down the distribution blower and backing the flame almost down to embers and cool the stove. The stove will then turn the blower back on, begin adding pellets, heating back up only to repeat this cycle. When the blower shuts down, the status light goes dark. When the blower kicks back on the status light re-illuminates. I'm about at my wits end and the house is chilly in this cold snap. This started two days ago. Stove has been running great all season at every heat level. One clue making me think it is an ESP probe, after returning home New Years Day to a chilly house and the stove running but at a very small flame compared to it's setting, had the "3 blink" status light meaning ESP probe failure. I have done numerous hard resets and still having issues even after complete cleaning. Even tested rope seals with "dollar bill" test.

Any insight into this issue? I hate to call my local dealer because I am not fond of their customer service, expensive parts, or business practices of past dealings.

Thanks,
Ron

F4jock · Jan 6, 2015

Could be ESP but check the seating of the fines box cover.

rona · Jan 6, 2015

Gimme Fuel said:
Hi all,

After searching through the vast halls of stove knowledge on this forum, I have come up with a myriad of causes for my stove's symptoms but no concurrence leading me towards a solution.

Here are the facts: Stove has been fully cleaned head to toe, all blowers clean and spin freely. ESP (white wire) clean. Fines cavity cleaned. Burn only premium hardwood pellets. I always run in Stove Temp mode as my old farm house needs constant heat. Oh, I can understand wiring diagrams and technical jargon so, don't hold back.

Symptoms: Stove won't consistently run above heat level of about 2.5 (stove temp/auto mode) without periodically shutting down the distribution blower and backing the flame almost down to embers and cool the stove. The stove will then turn the blower back on, begin adding pellets, heating back up only to repeat this cycle. When the blower shuts down, the status light goes dark. When the blower kicks back on the status light re-illuminates. I'm about at my wits end and the house is chilly in this cold snap. This started two days ago. Stove has been running great all season at every heat level. One clue making me think it is an ESP probe, after returning home New Years Day to a chilly house and the stove running but at a very small flame compared to it's setting, had the "3 blink" status light meaning ESP probe failure. I have done numerous hard resets and still having issues even after complete cleaning. Even tested rope seals with "dollar bill" test.

Any insight into this issue? I hate to call my local dealer because I am not fond of their customer service, expensive parts, or business practices of past dealings.

Thanks,
Ron

My money would be ESP problem If its a vac leak like a fines door it would not fluctuate. The esp shoulders a lot of problems and its a good idea to have a spare handy. If you read a dealers troubleshooting manual they mention the ESP for many problems

Gimme Fuel · Jan 6, 2015

Fines door is on tight. I was leaning towards ESP after my readings on here and the code it threw before. Thanks for some concurrence before I started replacing parts. I will try to pick one up tomorrow.

After all of the references to ESP's having only "red" wire and "black" wire sensors, I was surprised to see mine has "white" wires. Is this a 3rd type or did the wire color just get changed over the years?

BTW, I am out of warranty. Stove is 5-6 years old. I bought it for a friend that bought it, used it 3 times to heat a new addition, then replaced whole house HVAC system so supplement stove was no longer needed. Stove has been trouble free and reliable thus far so I really can't complain. Much better stove than the St. Croix problem child I used to have. I haven't bought propane in 4 years.

Bioburner · Jan 6, 2015

A lot of erratic behavior is attributed to the ESP. You never stated how old of stove. Three year warranty on it I believe.

F4jock · Jan 6, 2015

rona said:
My money would be ESP problem If its a vac leak like a fines door it would not fluctuate. The esp shoulders a lot of problems and its a good idea to have a spare handy. If you read a dealers troubleshooting manual they mention the ESP for many problems

Probably right but easier to check cover first and free.

Bioburner · Jan 6, 2015

[quostoveme Fuel, post: 1861776, member: 41344"]Fines door is on tight. I was leaning towards ESP after my readings on here and the code it threw before. Thanks for some concurrence before I started replacing parts. I will try to pick one up tomorrow.

After all of the references to ESP's having only "red" wire and "black" wire sensors, I was surprised to see mine has "white" wires. Is this a 3rd type or did the wire color just get changed over the years?

BTW, I am out of warranty. Stove is 5-6 years old. I bought it for a friend that bought it, used it 3 times to heat a new addition, then replaced whole house HVAC system so supplement stove was no longer needed. Stove has been trouble free and reliable thus far so I really can't complain. Much better stove than the St. Croix problem child I used to have. I haven't bought propane in 4 years.[/quote]
Our stove has white at the beginning and connects the board with black.

F4jock · Jan 6, 2015

If I remember correctly white and black wire ESPS are identical.

johninwi · Jan 6, 2015

Gimme Fuel said:
(stove temp/auto mode) without periodically shutting down the distribution blower

I run the same stove temp with auto mode, if i open the door for more than 20-30 seconds the distribution blower will shut down. Might check the negative pressure switch and hose's before buying an esp.

Bioburner · Jan 6, 2015

johninwi said:
I run the same stove temp with auto mode, if i open the door for more than 20-30 seconds the distribution blower will shut down. Might check the negative pressure switch and hose's before buying an esp.

Good idea with the stove getting over five years. I needed to change the door seals last fall. A partly plugged line or port can be a possibility.

Gimme Fuel · Jan 6, 2015

johninwi said:
I run the same stove temp with auto mode, if i open the door for more than 20-30 seconds the distribution blower will shut down. Might check the negative pressure switch and hose's before buying an esp.

Thanks for that idea, I will check that also. My blower (when working) shuts off immediately when I open the door. I have tried to switch to manual mode, that will not return distribution blower on either when it goes down. It just builds up a good fire, then turns distribution blower off and burns the pot down.

Gimme Fuel · Jan 6, 2015

I checked the negative pressure switch. Hose appears to be pliable and clear. I was mistaken, blower does not shut off immediately when i open door...takes a few seconds but starts right back up once negative pressure is discovered. Pulling good vacuum through inlet flapper. Guess ESP is next move.

rickwai · Jan 7, 2015

only the first few inches of the probe wires are white on some of the black esp probe.

Bioburner · Jan 7, 2015

bags · Jan 7, 2015

That's the same ESP I have and mine also has the white. It is a black wire ESP. I'm pretty sure most PC45's are black wire ESP's. I ordered a back up ESP and it has the black with white leads at the probe also. Woodman's Parts has them for $70. I also got a red one for my P68 and it was $52.

Gimme Fuel · Jan 7, 2015

bags said:
That's the same ESP I have and mine also has the white. It is a black wire ESP. I'm pretty sure most PC45's are black wire ESP's. I ordered a back up ESP and it has the black with white leads at the probe also. Woodman's Parts has them for $70. I also got a red one for my P68 and it was $52.

I replaced the ESP with one from our local dealer for $89 + the Government's cut and swapped it out when I got home. Stove has been running for 4 hours on full output without missing a beat. Glad my house is warming back up. Already gained back 9 degrees temp in the central part of the house. Just in time for the wind chill warnings of tonight and near zero real temps. Thanks again!

Bioburner · Jan 7, 2015

Thanks for the feedback. It gives us a warm feeling too.

bags · Jan 7, 2015

The ESP's can cause various problems when they go bad or begin to head south. Glad you are warming up. It is going to get ugly cold tonight. I'd say it was worth the extra $20 or so bucks to get it back online. Many people keep a backup ESP, fuses, and such just in case. I got these parts as spares for both of my stoves. The P68 is new and I feel the need to have a backup. That way you don't wind up screwed at an inopportune time. Woodman's Parts was about the cheapest price on them I have seen so far. I had them in two days during the holiday shipping rush.

Crank that 45 up and get the heat rolling quickly. Good to see you have your issue resolved. Just in the nick of time too.

Gimme Fuel · Jan 8, 2015

bags said:
The ESP's can cause various problems when they go bad or begin to head south. Glad you are warming up. It is going to get ugly cold tonight. I'd say it was worth the extra $20 or so bucks to get it back online. Many people keep a backup ESP, fuses, and such just in case. I got these parts as spares for both of my stoves. The P68 is new and I feel the need to have a backup. That way you don't wind up screwed at an inopportune time. Woodman's Parts was about the cheapest price on them I have seen so far. I had them in two days during the holiday shipping rush.

Crank that 45 up and get the heat rolling quickly. Good to see you have your issue resolved. Just in the nick of time too.

Ran all night perfectly on full blast. Brought the central part of the house back up nearly 9 degrees before bedtime, although it lost a little ground by the time morning came. Darn wind picked up and switched directions. Not gonna get any better today either. Wishing I had the P68 right now, but the PC45 works extremely well and is more than adequate 95% of the time. Once we get a calm sunny day, it will catch back up and when the weather gets bad again, it stays decent. Just so much of a heat deficit now from not running well all week, takes a lot of BTU's to get the mass of the house back up to a certain temp.. The wind kills my old farm house that sits prone surrounded by open farm fields. Eventually I will get the house insulated where it needs to be. A little gets added every year.

Harman PC45 Irratic Shut Downs

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