Woodstock Customer Service

DougA said:

If the phone response was indeed what was posted, I don't see that as silly AT ALL. It IS a lie when you know the truth and promise something else. Call a spade a spade.

Years ago, my wife used to work in a firm exactly the same size and her job was to lie to customers that their order would ship that day and it was not even on the production floor yet and would not be completed for a week. She finally quit because people would show up at the factory demanding to pick up the order and found out the truth.

I run a small company and the very WORST customer phone calls I deal with is when I tell people the truth and they will not accept that. People are conditioned to accept BS. I completely understand the situation but it is still wrong to lie in the hope that everything will be better when the sun rises tomorrow. It rarely is.

It pains me to post a negative about one of the finest companies in the industry but that is exactly what needs to happen to make the changes necessary. Anyone who runs a good company that relies on outsourcing ALWAYS has multiple plans when one supplier is in trouble. This is a fatal error that they have made and it must get corrected.

Click to expand...

First off, you need to pay a little bit better attention. The comment I made about it being 'silly' referred to the suggestion that Woodstock post a detailed recovery plan. It had nothing to do with the accusation that Woodstock was lying. And I would suggest that there were no lies at all, instead overly optimistic shipping schedules and internal communication issues. Remember folks, Woodstock is a very small operation where most employees wear many different hats. But above all, they value quality products and excellent customer care. Now that there is a little blood in the water, funny how all the sharks come out. I'm moving on and hopefully the moderators will lock this baby up.

Jearley35purdue said:

Can't agree with you more. Customer service is more than just lip service stating we're trying and we're sorry for the blips along the way. They will figure it all out. Probably was a mom and pop shop now in over their head. They will have to figure it out quick or will lose their place in the pack.

Click to expand...

And yet another silly response........... you also need to pay attention and not just follow the pack. Go back and read my comment about what was silly.

DougA said:

If the phone response was indeed what was posted, I don't see that as silly AT ALL. It IS a lie when you know the truth and promise something else. Call a spade a spade.

Years ago, my wife used to work in a firm exactly the same size and her job was to lie to customers that their order would ship that day and it was not even on the production floor yet and would not be completed for a week. She finally quit because people would show up at the factory demanding to pick up the order and found out the truth.

I run a small company and the very WORST customer phone calls I deal with is when I tell people the truth and they will not accept that. People are conditioned to accept BS. I completely understand the situation but it is still wrong to lie in the hope that everything will be better when the sun rises tomorrow. It rarely is.

It pains me to post a negative about one of the finest companies in the industry but that is exactly what needs to happen to make the changes necessary. Anyone who runs a good company that relies on outsourcing ALWAYS has multiple plans when one supplier is in trouble. This is a fatal error that they have made and it must get corrected.

Click to expand...

I'm see lots of parallels in this conversation to my area of expertise (software engineering/data management). Common sense says you absolutely have to have good backups and fault-tolerant hardware. However, time and again I see reality is different. Life happens, things change, and then suddenly you get caught in an embarrassing spot. Likewise, I personally have given many overly (in hindsight) optimistic completion dates. Fortunately I am expected to be correct and not mislead (I'd have to find another employer if they wanted me to mislead), and fortunately my bosses don't suggest I am intentionally misleading them with my overly optimistic projections.

I'm struck by the number of conjectures on this thread. If you look through both the history and current posts, the majority of those of us actually doing business with this company are tickled pink with the service we receive.

Tenn Dave said:

First off, you need to pay a little bit better attention. The comment I made about it being 'silly' referred to the suggestion that Woodstock post a detailed recovery plan. It had nothing to do with the accusation that Woodstock was lying. And I would suggest that there were no lies at all, instead overly optimistic shipping schedules and internal communication issues. Remember folks, Woodstock is a very small operation where most employees wear many different hats. But above all, they value quality products and excellent customer care. Now that there is a little blood in the water, funny how all the sharks come out. I'm moving on and hopefully the moderators will lock this baby up.

Click to expand...

You are fully entitled to your opinion, as am I and anyone else. I took your 'silly' as being both the lies and the recovery plan. That's also why I stated that no good company can rely upon one supplier, yet they have changed suppliers of cast doors, but that supplier is still their only apparent source.

Your comment about being a small operation actually reinforces the point I was making that the employee who gave false shipping dates, knew they were not being honest - which I call lying. If I call UPS and someone tells me something wrong, I doubt they are lying, they are just stating what they know, which is next to nothing.

I don't think the 'sharks' comment is fair either but, I'm all for calling a spade a spade.

The last thing I want is for the mods to close down a thread. It's far better to talk this out, even when people disagree. We all want the same thing, a thriving wood burning community. When one of the premier suppliers is having problems, the best long term solution is to be fully open about it. I think their offer of paying part or all of the shipping charges is very fair and as noted, anyone can cancel an order at any time - an awesome policy. To be non-partisan though, how many of us are going to want to cancel after salivating for a new stove for so long. I was pretty upset when I found I could not install a Woodstock here in Canada because they lacked the ULC certification. As a businessman, I wouldn't do it either when the ULC lab charges $10K just to rubber stamp what the UL lab already did. Now that is something to scream about!

Tenn Dave said:

And yet another silly response........... you also need to pay attention and not just follow the pack. Go back and read my comment about what was silly.

Click to expand...

I'm really not trying to be silly, I'm just stating what true great customer service is and what it includes. I believe my first comment was one that was leading the so called "pack" you mention , not following it, stating they need to post a detailed recovery plan. For the people that have back orders that continue to slip and they are getting commitments that they can't count on time and time again are owed a plan they believe in. That my friend is great customer service. Not a "we're sorry" note that includes "we will try harder". We all know they are trying harder because that's what good companies do. If this company is a small shop like everyone says then it should be that much easier to know your capacity, inventory position, supply chain situation and give a solid plan to the customers that are waiting. It's not unrealistic. This type of communication isn't good customer service and the community of wood burners is really pretty small when compared to other markets. I really want them to succeed and not trying to bash. Only making my point on what great customer service really is. Cheers!

Jearley35purdue said:

I'm really not trying to be silly, I'm just stating what true great customer service is and what it includes. I believe my first comment was one that was leading the so called "pack" you mention , not following it, stating they need to post a detailed recovery plan. For the people that have back orders that continue to slip and they are getting commitments that they can't count on time and time again are owed a plan they believe in. That my friend is great customer service. Not a "we're sorry" note that includes "we will try harder". We all know they are trying harder because that's what good companies do. If this company is a small shop like everyone says then it should be that much easier to know your capacity, inventory position, supply chain situation and give a solid plan to the customers that are waiting. It's not unrealistic. This type of communication isn't good customer service and the community of wood burners is really pretty small when compared to other markets. I really want them to succeed and not trying to bash. Only making my point on what great customer service really is. Cheers!

Click to expand...

I, and most all other Woodstock stove owners have nothing but praise for the superior customer care we have received. I can't help but notice that most of the negative comments being made here are by folks who have NEVER owned a Woodstock, and probably never will. Just sayin'. And it would be interesting to see how many other manufactures have a second source for quality castings. I seem to recall BKVP commenting on this very issue and thanking Woodstock for their efforts in the area of identifying an alternate quality source since the closing of the Belgium plant. If it weren't so difficult to find quality castings at a reasonable price and adequate capacity don't you think Woodstock and any other company would sign them up.

Tenn Dave said:

I, and most all other Woodstock stove owners have nothing but praise for the superior customer care we have received. I can't help but notice that most of the negative comments being made here are by folks who have NEVER owned a Woodstock, and probably never will. Just sayin'. And it would be interesting to see how many other manufactures have a second source for quality castings. I seem to recall BKVP commenting on this very issue and thanking Woodstock for their efforts in the area of identifying an alternate quality source since the closing of the Belgium plant. If it weren't so difficult to find quality castings at a reasonable price and adequate capacity don't you think Woodstock and any other company would sign them up.

Click to expand...

Tenn Dave I do have a Woodstock stove on order. In fact I have two. One to compliment my Napoleon insert and the second to go into my cabin down south. They have been fine so far to deal with and I have had no squabbles personally with them . I'm still out 3 months from my "so called" delivery dates. We shall see if they have their recovery done by then, but I'm guessing it will be more of the same....hope not because I want them now

All wood stove companies are having a big year I heard SBI is sold out of some stoves. Last winter has got everyone buying a stove. It's not just Wood Stock having problems. Stove companies are generally small to medium size.

Jearley35purdue said:

Tenn Dave I do have a Woodstock stove on order. In fact I have two. One to compliment my Napoleon insert and the second to go into my cabin down south. They have been fine so far to deal with and I have had no squabbles personally with them . I'm still out 3 months from my "so called" delivery dates. We shall see if they have their recovery done by then, but I'm guessing it will be more of the same....hope not because I want them now

Click to expand...

I sure hope they have the backorder situation cleared up by then. Your patience will be rewarded.

begreen said:

Castings are not like small parts. It takes time and sometimes a very significant investment to set up molds that match the equipment at a foundry. I suspect it is not uncommon in the stove industry to have a single source supplier for foundry cast parts.

Click to expand...

This is the point I was trying to make, but you said it so much better...............