Unreasonable expectations during this sub zero weather

Laurent Cyr said:

I insulated the walls with 2 inch foam insulation which I glued to the wall. I tuck taped all the seams. I spray foamed at top, bottom and corners. I did the same in between the rafters at the top of the walls.. I added pink insulation on top of the foam insulation between the rafters. It makes all the difference. All they had before was 1 inch white foam on the walls (which doesn't do much to keep the cold out and heat in).
I swear you can't feel a draft at all (except when the stove is running, then you feel the cold air coming down the stairs and the heat going up).
If I could., I would have insulated the cement floor as well, but I don't have much head room. So I'll have to settle for ceramic tiles and throw rugs.

We're expecting some -40C weather for the next couple of days....thank god for that stove!

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"Then I built my 2x4 walls and added pink insulation between, then the sheetrock panels."

Is there really a need for pink stuff on top of foam board? I would worry about mold

mass_burner said:

"Then I built my 2x4 walls and added pink insulation between, then the sheetrock panels."

Is there really a need for pink stuff on top of foam board? I would worry about mold

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The foam board against the concrete walls is the moisture barrier so there is no concern for mold.

Also, I believe he packed insulation between the floor joists\rafters around the house. This is what you should be done first (with R30) as you lose a ton of heat in this area (you can see this above the foam board in my pictures).

Jearley, will my new thread make you feel better? Or maybe worse: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/saving-no-money-but-still-no-regrets.139202/

to OhioBurner
There are 2 major problems and you probably have both of them.
Air infiltration which can be corrected by wrapping the house or rooms in a vapor barrier (cheap but lots of labor) or foam insulation($$). Either one will stop air from blowing through the house.
Heat radiates out through walls & ceiling which is corrected by adding any type of insulation.

Usually there are gov't grants to help you with insulation but sometimes they require someone to come in an do a full evaluation $$. The easiest way is to add 2" of blue or pink foam board and seal the joins with red tape, then drywall over top. That way, you have insulated and sealed at the same time. You will instantly feel the difference.

In Canada, the home improvement market is strong because housing prices are crazy high but in many parts of the US, you may indeed be better to find another house that has better insulation. Insulating a home is a full summer's part time job and not a lot of fun. Way too many houses built with no insulation when energy prices were so cheap.

When I built my house in the early '80's it was one of the first in the region to be built to Cdn. R2000 standards. People thought I was NUTS and a weird tree hugger. The house made the newspapers for being so unusual. Now, new houses are built to that standard and premium houses are much higher. Totally insane how things have changed so fast.

Kaptain said:

The foam board against the concrete walls is the moisture barrier so there is no concern for mold.

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Sort of - mold will form on the foam against the concrete wall if there is any moisture in the wall at all BUT the mold is sealed from the interior by the foam, provided the foam boards are sealed at the joints. So yes, mold will not be a problem but I would still make sure the walls are dry first.
The best and most expensive is spraying foam on the concrete, then it is sealed for sure. Just too much $$ for most people.

The reason for the extra concern is the huge problem that happened with acrylic stucco homes that used foam boards. Many were torn down due to severe mold problems within just a few years of construction. If there is any wall for moisture to get in, mold will grow.

DougA said:

The best and most expensive is spraying foam on the concrete, then it is sealed for sure. Just too much $$ for most people.

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Personally, for me, 2 inch of high density spray foam (R14 or so) was $3600 including tax for the walls and the rim joists. Buying 2 inch foam boards, PL to glue them, tuck tape and the anchors was $1500. Plus I would never be able to insulate the rim joists as well as spray foam did. For the extra $1700 the job was done much better and it saved me 2 weeks of work. lol.

Andrew

DougA said:

The foam board against the concrete walls is the moisture barrier so there is no concern for mold.

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Mold needs air. If your boards are properly sealed, air tight, and there's no air pocket, there's no mold. That is why had I used boards I was going to scrape the concrete to make certain the surface was as smooth as possible.

Andrew

Kaptain said:

The foam board against the concrete walls is the moisture barrier so there is no concern for mold..

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My real question is why did you add pink insulation between the foam board and the drywall on the wall.

I think he did it for extra insulation. Fibreglass insulation is cheap, might as well add it before closing in a wall. The foam acts not only as a vapour barrier but as a thermal barrier as well. Therefore you simply add some insulation on top, you don't need to worry about condensation, and you double or triple the insulation factor for the cost of peanuts and pocket wool

I am sorry to hear about your cold problems. We have dealt with the "tiny stove" blues as well.
Rule #1 is always get the biggest stove you can.

We were using a LOPI answer to heat our drafty farmhouse and it would glow for 6 months trying to do the job. We got tired of waking up to a cold house and having to burn wide open all day just to get back up to something warm.

We got a Kitchen Queen 480 and LOVE it. It was -25°F last night without the wind chill and it was 96 in the house. AWSOME is all I can say. That stove didn't even break a sweat to do it either. I got up at 11:00 today and it was still 76° in the house.

Isaac Carlson said:

...it was 96 in the house...

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ailanthus said:

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Nice! 96f that would be 36C! Any warmer I would feel feverish....

Isaac Carlson said:

It was -25°F last night without the wind chill and it was 96 in the house. AWSOME is all I can say. That stove didn't even break a sweat to do it either.

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I would be breaking a sweat just sitting there.

Are you sure it was 96!? Was that temperature taken 3 feet from the stove? Good grief i'd sleep on the deck..

Andrew

mass_burner said:

My real question is why did you add pink insulation between the foam board and the drywall on the wall.

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Added R-value. 2" Foam board has a R-value of about 10. A typical roll of insulation for framing has an R-value of 13

I'm somewhat in the same boat. I was optimistic to have the insert melting us out of the house this winter, which isn't the case.

"Heating up to 1800sqf with up to 69k btus" with my vogelzang colonial would be pushing it. I can run it between 500-600 for a few hours using envi blocks and I'll be lucky to move the thermostat up a degree or two. Sure, our house is 2000 sqf, and has a vaulted living room and a loft where the stove is- but we're keeping all rooms closed, reducing the heated area to under half. I'm not really disappointed, as the stove was cheap, but with no prior burn experience I had visions of wearing shorts around the house all winter.

At this point, as the real cold hits, I'm just treating the stove as an auxiliary heater and running it as much as possible to keep oil use down. So far since November we've only used 92 gallons of oil, so the savings is reasonable. Of course, we did put in a new higher efficiency boiler this year too, so some of the savings can be attributed there.

I'm not mad regardless. Burning is a bit fun and gives me something to fiddle with at tv time. And, well, it led me to this forum and for that I'm greatful. Already planning my wood for the next couple seasons and slowly grasping the fact that we'll likely upsize the stove in the future. In the meantime I get the benefit of using the insert we have and reading everyone else's success (and not such success) stories and planning for the future.

I'm also slowly coming up to speed on pellet stoves, and I keep eyeing the spare flue that runs to our basement... That might be the next addition this summer. It would be nice to run something downstairs to keep the chill out.

anthonyj124 said:

I'm also slowly coming up to speed on pellet stoves, and I keep eyeing the spare flue that runs to our basement... That might be the next addition this summer. It would be nice to run something downstairs to keep the chill out.

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I had a smoke dragon in the basement that I turned in to get a voucher to help with purchasing a new stove for upstairs. I don't miss tending two stoves, but I do miss the warm floors a bit.

Swedishchef said:

I would be breaking a sweat just sitting there.

Are you sure it was 96!? Was that temperature taken 3 feet from the stove? Good grief i'd sleep on the deck..

Andrew

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No kiddin! Perhaps the numbers are reversed???

80º is uncomfortably hot for very long for me, sure I'll stand right in front of the stove where its that warm for a few minutes but I couldn't take 80 purposely while sitting on the couch or dinner table, let alone nearly 100º

But that is one reason I have trouble even on the mild days heating my whole house with 1 stove. I can get the stove room about 80, but the next room over is already 10-15º colder. To keep say the living room, kitchen, and upstairs at 70º I'd probably have to have the stove room over 80º and I just can't do that.

mass_burner said:

Is there really a need for pink stuff on top of foam board? I would worry about mold

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I forgot one important thing to mention. Mold will not be a problem IF the indoor humidity is kept reasonably low. If, for example, you had a bathroom with an unvented shower downstairs or a grow-op, the humidity would be higher and mold will indeed grow on the foam board. Humidity migrates to a cooler surface and will easily go through drywall. All that is highly unlikely if you have a wood stove downstairs but I just wanted to make sure you are aware.

From what I see, he used fiberglass with a vapor barrier backing. That is far better than using fiberglass alone but the best way to do it is to add another vapor barrier in front of the stud wall prior to drywalling.

We had friends with a very minor leak in their basement water heater connection that went undetected because it was enclosed in a small room. Sadly, mold started and by the time the leak was discovered, black mold was everywhere and they were forced to move out while a crew came in and removed everything to the bare walls and rebuilt the basement.

I am sure it was 96°. The thermometer is a good 10 or 12 feet from the stove and on a wall. What helps us keep even temps in the house is the physical size of the stove. It moves a lot of air volume and you can feel the breeze if you hold still. You can hold up a piece of paper or string and watch it move. The house is even temp within 2-4° except for the bathroom, which is in the far corner and is cooler. Upstairs and down are within a few degrees of each other simply because of the amount of air moving. We have roughly 75 square feet of hot steel to move and heat air.

That is crazy!! Too hot for me.

When candles start melting, I do too. lol
Andrew

I got the thermometer out just for kicks- 62° on the non-stove side of the house. That's as warm as it will get all winter unless it's a clear sunny day or we're baking something in the oven for several hours. I like to have that one warm room to go to, but I couldn't handle having the whole house that warm.

Swedishchef said:

I think he did it for extra insulation. Fibreglass insulation is cheap, might as well add it before closing in a wall. The foam acts not only as a vapour barrier but as a thermal barrier as well. Therefore you simply add some insulation on top, you don't need to worry about condensation, and you double or triple the insulation factor for the cost of peanuts and pocket wool

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Exactly.

mass_burner said:

My real question is why did you add pink insulation between the foam board and the drywall on the wall.

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To increase the R value. It makes a difference when it's -40 to -50C outside.

DougA said:

Sort of - mold will form on the foam against the concrete wall if there is any moisture in the wall at all BUT the mold is sealed from the interior by the foam, provided the foam boards are sealed at the joints. So yes, mold will not be a problem but I would still make sure the walls are dry first.
The best and most expensive is spraying foam on the concrete, then it is sealed for sure. Just too much $$ for most people.

The reason for the extra concern is the huge problem that happened with acrylic stucco homes that used foam boards. Many were torn down due to severe mold problems within just a few years of construction. If there is any wall for moisture to get in, mold will grow.

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There is and was no moisture on the walls. The basement walls outside were covered with tar and then covered with blue skin waterproofing.

Kaptain said:

The foam board against the concrete walls is the moisture barrier so there is no concern for mold.

Also, I believe he packed insulation between the floor joists\rafters around the house. This is what you should be done first (with R30) as you lose a ton of heat in this area (you can see this above the foam board in my pictures).

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Exactly. And the foam insulation between the floor joists were sealed with spray foam.