First Power Outage w/52i = smoke

Randy Fischer · Jan 15, 2015

HP52NOVA said:
Nope, pretty experienced DIY here, did all the electric and marble work as well as a new wood floor. I was just to busy and tired!

So if the UPS switches real fast, how does the stove know to shut down when in manual mode? Missing something here...

"When power is lost, a fully charged UPS will power a combustion blower only shut-down. Your
appliance will pulse the blower every few seconds to clear exhaust until the fire is out."

IE - it can detect the loss of sine curve and pulses down on DC power.[/quote]
Thanks a bunch, that's what I was missing. I think I will wait for the big end of season clean out when I pull the insert out and reroute the plug to the outside. Thanks for the info folks.

F4jock · Jan 15, 2015

One nice thing about locating the UPS outside the insert is that, as mentioned above and in other threads here, you can actually beef it up to where it will provide heat and some light for a more protracted outage.

DneprDave · Jan 15, 2015

The UPS I'm familiar with doesn't "switch over". The stove is always on battery power when used, it's just that the battery is always being charged so the stove can run continuously. When the power goes off the battery is no longer being charged, so the stove will continue to run until the battery runs down, that can be many hours, depending on the capacity of the battery.

Dave

HP52NOVA · Jan 15, 2015

DneprDave said:
The UPS I'm familiar with doesn't "switch over". The stove is always on battery power when used, it's just that the battery is always being charged so the stove can run continuously. When the power goes off the battery is no longer being charged, so the stove will continue to run until the battery runs down, that can be many hours, depending on the capacity of the battery.

Dave

A standard UPS by definition will always "switch over" its part of its design. When it looses power, its switch's to the battery. I think what you are talking about the is surefire backup system, which is not a UPS. its actually a Sine Wave Inverter coupled with a backup battery, and it also switches over when the power fails. both devices will do it with no time lost (Nano seconds), the difference is in the Sine wave capabilities. The standard UPS is not capable to run the stove for this reason and can only "pulse to shutdown". You need a true Sine Wave Inverter to actually run the Harman (making it think its on the power grid).

F4jock · Jan 15, 2015

DneprDave said:
The UPS I'm familiar with doesn't "switch over". The stove is always on battery power when used, it's just that the battery is always being charged so the stove can run continuously. When the power goes off the battery is no longer being charged, so the stove will continue to run until the battery runs down, that can be many hours, depending on the capacity of the battery.

Dave

Problem with that alternative system, and it isn't a true UPS, is that, depending on how long the typical outage is, you may need to do a manual stove shutdown later. The real solution is a genny with auto-transfer so you can have light, HVAC and refrigeration for as long as you have fuel. We've been out for eight days a couple of times and we have nada without the genny, including water, but we live out on the range so . . . . . .

HP52NOVA · Jan 15, 2015

F4jock said:
Problem with that alternative system, and it isn't a true UPS, is that, depending on how long the typical outage is, you may need to do a manual shutdown later. The real solution is a genny with auto-transfer so you can have light, HVAC and refrigeration for as long as you have fuel. We've been out for eight days a couple of times and we have nada without the genny, including water, but we live out on the range so . . . . . .

Agreed. the best solution is a full house gen with auto transfer, if you need one and can afford it. I would still plug in a standard UPS on the Harman just to cover the transfer time. The surefire backup system is good for the peps with a good and reliable power that only need a periodic answer to a relatively short outage.

F4jock · Jan 15, 2015

HP52NOVA said:
Agreed. the best solution is a full house gen with auto transfer, if you need one and can afford it. I would still plug in a standard UPS on the Harman just to cover the transfer time. The surefire backup system is good for the peps with a good and reliable power that only need a periodic answer to a relatively short outage.

Like if you live in civilization. . . . . .

gfreek · Jan 15, 2015

Check out this Harman video

F4jock · Jan 15, 2015

gfreek said:
Check out this Harman video

Just what the OP needs !!!

Nice post!!

batchman · Jan 15, 2015

I have a UPS on my Maxx-M, needed to be a good sized one to run through a 20-minute burn-down since this stove pulls a steady 3A. I'm not done yet but will use the thermostat circuit to tell it to stop feeding. The stove can't tell whether the power coming is in line or UPS. Maybe the Harman has a way but it's going to be more complex than just the power cord.

One thing to think about is battery life on pretty much all UPS's. They're never great but the life degrades as temperature goes up, which doesn't sound good buried behind an insert.

Good luck,
- Jeff

chken · Jan 16, 2015

DneprDave said:
The UPS I'm familiar with doesn't "switch over". The stove is always on battery power when used, it's just that the battery is always being charged so the stove can run continuously. When the power goes off the battery is no longer being charged, so the stove will continue to run until the battery runs down, that can be many hours, depending on the capacity of the battery.

Dave

Sounds like the more expensive isolated UPSes that condition the power. The cheaper ones, and the ones most people get, are the standby models, that only switch over to battery power if there's a big change in the voltage. In between, there are AVR, line-interactive units.

bogieb · Jan 16, 2015

This is the UPS the Harman says is tested as fine to use with their stoves. it is on sale for $78 & free shipping if you are a Prime member

chken · Jan 16, 2015

Before I get that Harman rec'd UPS, and stick it behind the insert, I'd check to make sure if the beeping can be turned off, because I don't think it can. You won't like having that UPS beeping at you when you can't reach it.

TimfromMA · Jan 16, 2015

These batteries produce hydrogen when recharging. Keep them as far away from the stove as possible.

linc1216 · Jan 16, 2015

Hey, quick question. I have the APC BE750G UPS as recomended by Harman. I have my stove plugged into the Master slot and have no other devices using the UPS, just my pellet stove. I also have the Master enabled. I didn't download the software didn't think there was a need for it. My question is, am I correctly connected?

HP52NOVA · Jan 17, 2015

linc1216 said:
Hey, quick question. I have the APC BE750G UPS as recomended by Harman. I have my stove plugged into the Master slot and have no other devices using the UPS, just my pellet stove. I also have the Master enabled. I didn't download the software didn't think there was a need for it. My question is, am I correctly connected?

Sounds like it. Make sure you are using the ups slot that is both backup power and surge protection. The software is for computer setup only.

bogieb · Jan 17, 2015

chken said:
Before I get that Harman rec'd UPS, and stick it behind the insert, I'd check to make sure if the beeping can be turned off, because I don't think it can. You won't like having that UPS beeping at you when you can't reach it.

Yeah, you have to turn the UPS off for it to quit beeping.

linc1216 said:
Hey, quick question. I have the APC BE750G UPS as recomended by Harman. I have my stove plugged into the Master slot and have no other devices using the UPS, just my pellet stove. I also have the Master enabled. I didn't download the software didn't think there was a need for it. My question is, am I correctly connected?

I didn't download the software either, no need as far as I can tell. The Master is fine to plug into as long as nothing else is using the UPS.

linc1216 · Jan 17, 2015

bogieb said:
Yeah, you have to turn the UPS off for it to quit beeping.

I didn't download the software either, no need as far as I can tell. The Master is fine to plug into as long as nothing else is using the UPS.

I just changed the stove plug from Master and inserted the plug on the same row second to the right of the Master and disabled the Master Enable. I read and searched and couldn't figure the correct insertion for using 1 device only. Thanks for your help.

bogieb · Jan 17, 2015

linc1216 said:
I just changed the stove plug from Master and inserted the plug on the same row second to the right of the Master and disabled the Master Enable. I read and searched and couldn't figure the correct insertion for using 1 device only. Thanks for your help.

That will work too - I believe that is the inlet that my stoves are on. I use the UPS for plugging in my ash vac, so wasn't sure if any interaction with the Master would mess with anything.

yrock87 · Jan 18, 2015

chken said:
Before I get that Harman rec'd UPS, and stick it behind the insert, I'd check to make sure if the beeping can be turned off, because I don't think it can. You won't like having that UPS beeping at you when you can't reach it.

The apc Back UPs line has the ability to turn that beeping off if you plug it into your computer with the USB cable and run the set up. Then just disconnect from the computer and plug in your stove.

bogieb · Jan 18, 2015

Thanks for info yrock - now I know why you might want to set up the software.

chken · Jan 18, 2015

yrock87 said:
The apc Back UPs line has the ability to turn that beeping off if you plug it into your computer with the USB cable and run the set up. Then just disconnect from the computer and plug in your stove.

That's good to know, since I have 4 of those APC BackUPS. Of course, I never installed the software. Then again, I've switched over 3 of them to CyberPower UPSes, in the last 3 months. In fact, one died just yesterday when I moved its location!?!

Randy Fischer · Feb 10, 2015

Randy Fischer said:
Greetings all, we had a 20 minute power outage a few days ago while the Harman was going full tilt. Flame went out immediately as you would expect. There really wasn't much smoke in the burn box. But after abou 2-3 minutes, a small amount of smoke started to come out of the side doors, especially the left side with the controls. Most of it was coming from the vents of the control board enclosure. No smoke at all from the hopper. This got me to wondering, if the OAK/burn pot/exhaust path is air tight (which I assume is true), where did the smoke come from?

I understand a UPS is recommended for this reason, but our installation makes this difficult as our stove is powered by a power outlet behind the stove insert so that there are no messy wires (the one request of the wife).

Hi all, this was my original post. I took the stove out of the insert enclosure for the first time yesterday and found the issue that caused the smoke referenced in the original post. As part of the OAK install kit, there is a weldment that connects the outside air bracket to the stove. The kit comes with self drilling metal screws, but one broke allowing the gap shown in the pic. The installer is due out on Sunday and he will drill and tap for a machine screw. Posting for future reference of others.

gfreek · Feb 11, 2015

After the fix you should check it again.. Did you get a UPS ??

bogieb · Feb 11, 2015

Thanks for checking back in and letting us know the outcome

First Power Outage w/52i = smoke

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