Can't get enough heat out of my system!?!?
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ewdudley
Minister of Fire
As others have suggested, the meat thermometer would likely work well if you get the shaft parallel to the pipe and then wrap it with foam rubber, styrofoam sheeting, pipe insulation, wool socks, or whatever so that the the tip of the thermometer can see the water temperature after a minute or two.I'm willing to try about anything at this point. I have one very upset wife, since spending the amount of cash I have into this for it to not be heating our house.
Then at a minimum need to know temperature entering HX from boiler, temperature returning to boiler from HX, temperature entering HX from system, and temperature leaving HX to supply the system.
I'm not going to profess to understand your setup that well, sounds to me like you're chaining boilers (OWB->Slantfin) and using the slantfin to circulate. Is this correct? Was this the same setup that the propane was, what changed? The OWB and the WWHX?
Could it be that there's a difference in speed to the baseboards and the heat transfer isn't the same?
Could it be that there's a difference in speed to the baseboards and the heat transfer isn't the same?
Everytime I got air in my pressurized system it acted funny and much like that. I could be 190* and still little heat. The only thing I can see is the pex is pinched and not pumping near the GPM it needs to keep the house warm. But, that can't be cause it is coming out of the HX @ 150 and that should be good enough. And since it has been going only 1 week, it could very well have air stuck., Just maybe there is a leak and air keeps getting in but you would see it in the pressure guage. It sure seems like air in a hydronic unit to me. At least, you don';t have something that will cost 500 bucks to fix. ANd pex is never as hot to the touch as metal.
I also a newbee, sounds like air I have fought air FOR EVER I put a stand pip right at the coil with a bleeder at the top..will fought air for a while.
- Nov 30, 2010
- 126
Well the guy came out and installed a larger pump and also two in line thermometers.
With the larger pump it is now getting 193° water going into the exchanger and 189° water into the baseboards. They seem to be much hotter now. He also hooked up a house to the system and purged it a couple of times for a lot longer than I had done myself. I know for sure he got out a lot more air than I had.
I was very pleasantly surprised to see that I am only losing about 4° with the new pump.
Fingers crossed that it starts bringing up the temp in the house now.
With the larger pump it is now getting 193° water going into the exchanger and 189° water into the baseboards. They seem to be much hotter now. He also hooked up a house to the system and purged it a couple of times for a lot longer than I had done myself. I know for sure he got out a lot more air than I had.
I was very pleasantly surprised to see that I am only losing about 4° with the new pump.
Fingers crossed that it starts bringing up the temp in the house now.
maple1
Minister of Fire
If 189° water going into the baseboards doesn't keep you toasty, you have baseboard problems - like, not enough. We do fine on 160° water.
Clarkbug
Minister of Fire
Yep yep. I only have problems at -15 or so with a steady 20 MPH wind with my baseboard at 180 to 200 degrees. (Thats on the oil boiler). Most of the time I can do fine with 140, but I cruse around 155 or 160.
Im going to guess it was the air that was the issue, and you can probably adjust your OWB back down a few degrees to try and help save yourself some wood.
Im going to guess it was the air that was the issue, and you can probably adjust your OWB back down a few degrees to try and help save yourself some wood.
- Nov 30, 2010
- 126
So the system will only heat up to about 70° now. I finally broke down and had a professional come out. He was extremely honest and left not selling me anything. He advised me that the base boards were not originally installed high enough off the floor to allow for natural convection like they are supposed to. And when we had new carpet installed, the installers didn't know better, and installed directly underneath them... making the covers tightly sealing to the bottom of the covers. He walked all through the house, and was showing me how much hotter the air was near the baseboards that had nothing obstructing the bottoms of them, to the ones that did (big difference).
He then also gave me some tips to get better results with the baseboards, like the fact that we need to have air flow in our home. Currently we have none.
My solution for now, will be to have a carpet installer come out and cut back the carpet to within an inch or so shy of the baseboards, and to run our ceiling fans on low backwards to move the hotter air around, and help create the cycling of hot and cold air.
He said the amount of baseboards I have should be adequate for our home, and shouldn't have any problems heating the house to 80° if desired.
My next step is to just take the plunge into the forced air world, as this radiant heat stuff is just aggravating and leaving us cold.
He then also gave me some tips to get better results with the baseboards, like the fact that we need to have air flow in our home. Currently we have none.
My solution for now, will be to have a carpet installer come out and cut back the carpet to within an inch or so shy of the baseboards, and to run our ceiling fans on low backwards to move the hotter air around, and help create the cycling of hot and cold air.
He said the amount of baseboards I have should be adequate for our home, and shouldn't have any problems heating the house to 80° if desired.
My next step is to just take the plunge into the forced air world, as this radiant heat stuff is just aggravating and leaving us cold.
Clarkbug
Minister of Fire
Dont do it!
Forced Air isnt all its cracked up to be, at least not in my mind. Once you get your system dialed in, it should be perfectly comfortable for you. Baseboard needs airflow to work, cant get around that. Heck, in the meantime you can take the covers off of there to get things heated up (looks bad, should work OK). Just be careful not to mash any of the fins over by hitting it with anything. Worthwhile experiment at least to see if that helps.
Forced Air isnt all its cracked up to be, at least not in my mind. Once you get your system dialed in, it should be perfectly comfortable for you. Baseboard needs airflow to work, cant get around that. Heck, in the meantime you can take the covers off of there to get things heated up (looks bad, should work OK). Just be careful not to mash any of the fins over by hitting it with anything. Worthwhile experiment at least to see if that helps.
Fred61
Minister of Fire
Would be better than what he has now but the chimney effect of the front panel assists the flow if there is adequate space below.
ewdudley
Minister of Fire
+1!
Just pull the covers off, relax, and plan your next move. Maybe have a tin-knocker make some new covers.
- Nov 30, 2010
- 126
Yeah, he did mention that I could also cut about a half inch off the bottom of the covers to help assist the convection, but it would look ugly.... wife is not too keen to that one and wants to have the carpet re-worked first.
Forgot to note: He said to take the plunge and get a newer thermostat, because our "old school mercury one, is not the most accurate, or efficient".
Any suggestions on the newer digital read ones... like what is easy to use, and works good?
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JP11
Minister of Fire
Go slow.. don't make hasty decisions.
take the covers off first. that's FREE.
Cut the carpets back.. that should be CHEAP.
Then see where you're at.
In your situation.. I'd rather pay a plumber a day's wages this summer to move ALL your baseboards up.. but that would expose your carpet cutback. Maybe i'd run covers off for this year. At least in all your rooms that no one would see. Or just slap em back on when company is coming over.
JP
take the covers off first. that's FREE.
Cut the carpets back.. that should be CHEAP.
Then see where you're at.
In your situation.. I'd rather pay a plumber a day's wages this summer to move ALL your baseboards up.. but that would expose your carpet cutback. Maybe i'd run covers off for this year. At least in all your rooms that no one would see. Or just slap em back on when company is coming over.
JP
tom in maine
Minister of Fire
Sounds like you have had a fun time.
Glad you have some good support.
I agree with everyone to not do anything rash. Take your time. That is difficult when things are cold and a spouse is not happy.
I would remove the covers and see how you do. You can jerry-rig them so the covers are in place but have some space on the bottom for now to allow convection.
As you consider options, Google radiant panels. They would be simpler to install than forced air or radiant systems and will throw out a fair bit of heat.
I think they look better, which might make your wife feel better, too.
Glad you have some good support.
I agree with everyone to not do anything rash. Take your time. That is difficult when things are cold and a spouse is not happy.
I would remove the covers and see how you do. You can jerry-rig them so the covers are in place but have some space on the bottom for now to allow convection.
As you consider options, Google radiant panels. They would be simpler to install than forced air or radiant systems and will throw out a fair bit of heat.
I think they look better, which might make your wife feel better, too.
Clarkbug
Minister of Fire
Home Depot had one of the nice Honeywell models on clearance for $20. I think its the RTD7500/or something along those lines. Usually sells for over 60. Worth a try to see of there are anywhere near you.
Otherwise, LUX makes a nice model.
maple1
Minister of Fire
He's likely bang on - but I don't agree with the air movement thing. The rads will make their own convection flow (when they aren't blocked at the bottom, that is) to get the heat circulating.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
salecker
Minister of Fire
Stay with the radiant heat.
This is our first winter in our new upstairs.We have a 25' ceiling to the peak in 60% of our house and a high ceiling in the upstairs bedroom.We just went through a -40C spell and the temps were always comfortable with the radiant heat.Downstairs we have a HX with a fan and any cold temps we always had a swing in temps that were noticeable,plus the noise of a fan running.
I need cool temps to sleep and our room in the loft was insulated to keep heat out.Cast iron rads with TRV's is the most even heat I've ever had the pleasure of sleeping in.
Thomas
This is our first winter in our new upstairs.We have a 25' ceiling to the peak in 60% of our house and a high ceiling in the upstairs bedroom.We just went through a -40C spell and the temps were always comfortable with the radiant heat.Downstairs we have a HX with a fan and any cold temps we always had a swing in temps that were noticeable,plus the noise of a fan running.
I need cool temps to sleep and our room in the loft was insulated to keep heat out.Cast iron rads with TRV's is the most even heat I've ever had the pleasure of sleeping in.
Thomas
The covers need to be in place, and provide adequate air movement to force the convection currents. If you remove them completely you have a crummy looking, low performing panel radiator
I doubt you will see much if any improvement with the covers off.Trim back the carpet and vacuum the elements first. The fin tube is facing the right direction? Occasionally the fins are facing front to back when mis-installed.
ewdudley
Minister of Fire
Seems unlikely. The covers are tight against the carpet now according to the OP. Removing the covers could not help but improve the situation.
Agreed it may work better, considering the carpet issue.
To get full output the covers are a critical part of the assembly. The covers force the cooler air to enter the bottom and force the heated air currents up. So you get a circular movement of air current from floor to ceiling.
If the carpet cut is acceptable, that is the best fix. Moving them up may require piping changes and it will expose some wall that has never been seen before, and may be more of an eyesore. A tough area to trim or paint, under a baseboard.
Another option we have used is to pull the carpet up at the baseboard, cut the pad underneath back 3" and put the carpet back down without cutting any off.
This may open up enough air space to get the output up and doesn't look as bad as a jagged carpet edge cut short.
Unless it's purple shag carpet, baby
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I raised my covers without having to replumb the heating elements. I raised them up about an inch when I renovated my house and there was enough up and down wiggle room that it wasn't an issue. I would pop off the front covers first and see if you can move everything up a bit. Going up is easier than down as you wont be exposing previously unpainted wall. As others have said, radiators are useless without the covers on.
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