Herniated disk

PA. Woodsman said:

Damn Hog, all this AND a hernia too? It's like you've been hit by a truck!

And after he hit you we got whacked too, but man, that's more than your share there buddy!

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I earned every bit of them, and mostly due to lifestyle when younger.
Played football from 7 to 14, more car accidents than I can even count, 13 years of roofing was the kicker.
Young and dumb is not just a slogan, it's a lifestyle back then.
I can still walk and do what I need to do, so no complaints here.
As long as I can get around, and my pecker still works, I'm good to go.

Hogwildz said:

As long as I can get around, and my pecker still works, I'm good to go.

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I think they have pills for that now

PA. Woodsman said:

I think they have pills for that now

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I bet I'll be taking those pills before I let them cut me open.

Hogwildz said:

I bet I'll be taking those pills before I let them cut me open.

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Just a shout out to the OP Dhide371 on any updates-how are you doing there, buddy?

Go back to 2001. I was beating on my back pretty bad - working on cars constantly, kitchen and bath remodels and I had a day job. I was trying to scrape up a down payment. Oh, and I was a runner that participated in marathons.

In August I was looking at a house i eventually bought and I was bent over to move something in the garage when S1 L5 ruptured. The pain was intense. Later and MRI showed it hit the 10 ring on the left sciatic.

My doctor sent me to Stanford Hospital to see three specialists. I saw what I call a quack, a butcher and a real doctor.

The quack was nuts. He was talking about all kinds of weird treatments. It didn't make sense to me. I never went back.

The butcher's intern told me that I should wait a while because sometimes your body will absorb the jelly that is causing the nerve pain. He went over the MRI with me and left. The butcher walked in and told me I needed surgery NOW!. He had a tale of doom and gloom - permanent nerve damage, partial paralysis, no one ever gets better, etc. I asked him what he wanted to do and he told me he was going to cut a section of the solid disc out. I asked him if he thought that would make my disc weaker and he told me it would make is stronger. I told him that I was a mechanical engineer and what I knew about structures is generally when you remove material it weakens the structure not strengthens it. He said that yes it would be more prone to herniation but there would be a gap for the jelly. I asked him what he would do if I herniated it again and he started talking about fusion. Goodbye...

The doctor told me the same thing the butcher's intern did. He wanted to wait a year and see if the pain went away. If it didn't he would remove the protruding jelly orthoscopically. This sounded reasonable to me. I took tons of Ibuprofen (Costco sells tow big bottles at a good price). We met every 3 months and he gave me back strengthening exercises to do. Every morning I rolled out of bed, crawled to the dresser and pulled myself up. My mouth watered from the pain. I stuck with t for a year like he said.

At a year one night I went to bed and when I woke up it was like someone threw a switch while I was sleeping and the pain was 80% gone. Over the next 6 months I was at 90%. It only got better with time.

I got back to running and ran races including 1/2 marathons. About twice a year my back would talk to me and if I didn't listen and back off I was in bed for a week. in 2007 I suffered an unrelated knee injury. That doctor gave me weight exercises for my knees. I eventually go to upper body weight training. This is when everything changed. AA side benefit is my back and abs got stronger. I have had zero issues since. I over doubled all my maxes weightlifting. I eventually got my knee fixed. Today I lift weights for a 1/2 hour and run 4+ miles every day. I am 6' 05", 250 pounds at 42 years old and stronger than I have ever been in my life. When I started lifting I could barely bench 135. All the distance running had decimated my strength. Last time I maxed I put up 275 no problem. I am working towards an attempt at 305. People ask me what I am training for and I tell them firewood season - I split wood with a maul.

I remember when my back hurt that it felt like it was never gonna end. Be encouraged that you will be back to almost normal with or without surgery. When making choices don't let pain cloud your judgement. When you do get better go to the gym to prevent relapse or worse a re-injury. I am 14 years on the other side and looking back I am in a better place now than I was before I injured my back. The truth is I wish I figured it out without getting hurt but I don't have anything to complain about.

Lots of good advice here and encouraging stories of healing!
I herniated L5/S1 a year ago next Thursday. It has been a heck of a year, but I'm feeling good now! It is a crap shoot on symptoms you get depending on exactly how it herniates as others mentions, but generally the bad ones are slow healing injuries. It's by far the slowest healing injury I've had, but it does heal.
Give it a year & you'll most likely be looking back on the injury & counting the blessings of a working body. Right now a year will seem like ETERNITY to you with the pain you're in, but you WILL get through it.
If I could go back & give myself advice I'd tell me to do whatever I can to manage the pain, to find practitioners of the McKenzie method ASAP, to be patient with myself and my body, and to tell people what you're dealing with. I was amazed how many people have been through this & will tell you their story.
It was a humbling experience last winter while my wife was shoveling the snow and bringing in the wood through the worst winter in many years around here, while I was draped over an exercise ball in the living room. Aside from the pain, the worst part was not being able to pick-up my daughter who was 1 1/2 for a couple of months
I tried some treatments that did little, but what I found worked was:
Acupuncture for acute pain / inflammation early on (later it didn't help much)
A TENS unit to help with acute pain
Slow gentle care from a chiropractor who used near-muscular therapy & not adjustments
After taking it easy for a week or so: Not sitting down. Keeping active & when I stopped, just lying down, kneeling...whatever
TIME
Then after 8 or 9 months I was stuck. Not progressing. Pins & needles getting worse in my leg & foot. Almost no range of motion regained. I started taking naproxen (Aleve) again. It had done nothing for me early on, but this time it was the magic bullet. Took the inflammation out & I could proceed with stretches & exercises to regain range of motion and strength.
I'm not saying this stuff will work for you, just to keep trying different things & you'll find what helps you. I wish I'd had an epidural. coulda saved a lot of pain & suffering.

You'll do wood again, not next week, probably not next month, and maybe with a few new tools to help the back

I hope you do OK with the driving. It was all I could do to drive 25 mins to work. I got out of the car like a 90yo man, hobb.led inside & crawled onto a yoga mat in my office to decompress the disk.
Maybe check-out some trucker forums for tips & devices that can help with the driving

Just know what works and doesn't work for you.
PT made mine worse.

L4, L5, S1 here....self employed and have to go to work every day. Would drag myself out of bed in tears. PT was a waste of money, and I'm not the invasive surgery type of guy. Inversion table worked to this day. Worked my way up to full inversion 3 times a day for 10-15 minutes. This in conjunction with stretches, and building stomach core muscles. Those disks will always be my weak link but I have no regrets with my decisions

The story is similar here. L4, L5 herniated multiple times. In college aggressive bump skiing wasn't a good start. Then herniated it again playing basketball then again skiing, then again at work. Splitting wood and running the saw proves pretty tough on it so like many have stated take your time and when your back says to quit, listen.

I did the chiropractor, PT, etc. however the one thing that has worked for is me Yoga. It's not as manly as splitting wood but it is centered around core strength and flexibility. A long distance runner in high school I never stretched and have very tight hamstrings. The way I understand it is hamstrings act as rubber bands pulling your back down compressing your spine. The tighter your hammy's the more it compresses. Once I started yoga and figured this out I have worked real hard on stretching multiple times a day and it has made a HUGE difference.

Just one more idea for you. I know I always like listening to what worked for other people.

I can't hand split any more.
Have to be much more careful handling big rounds. Properly and listening to my body when it is sending out WTF indicators.
Have also had the 'bend over to pick up a shiny object and become an invertebrate puddle' experience too.

So far staying somewhat active, exercising a little, staying OFF THE COUCH and trying to spend less time on a chair here helps.

Hogwildz said:

Just know what works and doesn't work for you.
PT made mine worse.

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Yep. My last neurosurgeon was not only a medical expert but had suffered a ruptured disk himself. He said "some people do great if they lose weight, some don't. Some people do great with PT, others get worse."

I have gone through the same stuff - periodic bouts of immobilizing pain, doctors, chiropractors, PT, mri scans, etc. Neurosurgeon advised surgery, but my family physician and others advised me to take more conservative treatment. I did not have surgery and have found walking to be the only consistently effective treatment for my low back problem. When I get lazy and miss a few days of walking my back problems start bothering me again. I should be doing core exercises as well, but walking each day has worked wonders for me.

Good luck - get well

OUCH!

I should look for my MRI. Mine hit the 10 ring on the left sciatic. I was 29 when I had the injury.

My personal philosophy is to keep as many OEM parts as I can. Like I said earlier I healed without surgery under a doctor's care. The surgeon told me I would have nerve damage too. It did get better. I try to avoid the knife when ever possible.

You know your pain threshold and through the doctors you should get all the information you need to decide a path forward. My advice is to shoot for long-term health rather what will get you short-term relief. Let us know which path you take.

Dhide371 said:

Well I'm still in the same pain as day one. Going on three weeks went to get second opinion and doc was almost rattled at how bad the herniation is he advised that I get one more shot which will most likely not help then get surgery asap. He said since I'm so young I could cause permanent nerve damage and possibly never surf or split wood again... That being said i hope the shot works. Pictures are pretty gross. Check it out.....

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That looks a lot worse than mine did; in fact, I remember the ortho doctor saying "it really doesn't look too bad". Did you try doing the McKenzie pushups?

I learned something over the years, and that is that the reason we have issues with bones and joints is that the muscles get torqued from stretching and squatting and lifting and all, and they pull the bones out of whack. The bones don't just decide to move on their own, the muscles have to pull them out, so getting the proper exercises and stretches really helps.

Now what about those McKenzie pushups?

Dhide371 said:

Anyone ever fully recovered from this? Scrounge is not happening haha. I'm suffering from l5 s1 disk herniation and I'm totally immobilized. Anyone? Am I done gathering wood haha?

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I had a moderate herniation on the same level that impinged the S1 nerve root and also have spondylolisthesis on that level. I went through the PT and all that jazz(PT actually made it worse) and finally ended up having a microdiscectomy done back in July of 2011.

Honestly before surgery I never thought I'd be as good as I am now. I was a miserable SOB when I was hurt, just ask my wife! I still do everything today that I did before the herniation with the exception of the heavy lifting.(running the saws, splitting, stacking, snowmobiling, biking, hunting, fishing, dirt bike riding, drag racing etc) I watch my bending/twisting motions when doing things but that is just something you learn after hurting for so long. My doctor told me I probably have a fusion in my future due to the spondy but we want to prolong that as long as we can since I was 36 at the time. I think I can make it for a long time as long as I don't do something "stupid".

Oh yeah, word of advise stay off the spine surgery forums, they're mostly filled with miserable people that had bad outcomes. People with good outcomes don't frequent sites to tell everyone how great they feel, you're probably reading the minority off most of those sites. Spinal surgery has come a long way after I had mine done a buddy at work had a microD done with the laser and his recovery was amazingly fast.

Dhide371 said:

I know I'm so torn right now. That doc was my second opinion too... I know myself tho and I am in serious pain I cannot put my shoes on or even force myself to surf which is the hardest thing. I'm inly 25 The doc scared the chit Outta me saying that if I do not i crest this I can forget surfing forever... So very torn as a discectomy scares the living chit Outta me

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What about the McKenzie pushups? Did you at least try to do them; I know that you said you had a young doctor who was hip about them?

Dhide371 said:

I know I'm so torn right now. That doc was my second opinion too... I know myself tho and I am in serious pain I cannot put my shoes on or even force myself to surf which is the hardest thing. I'm inly 25 The doc scared the chit Outta me saying that if I do not i crest this I can forget surfing forever... So very torn as a discectomy scares the living chit Outta me

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I wouldn't be too scared of a MircoD at your level. The spinal cord exits higher up so there is no risk of losing the ability to walk unless your surgeon really screws up doing something he has no business doing. You could experience some nerve damage or foot drop issues but this should be pretty slim unless the nerve is already damaged.

My surgeon told me I would probably recover eventually without surgery using Canadian patients as an example since they have a longer wait time before being able to get a MicroD. The way he put it to me is why would you want to wait months/years for relief when you could have relief immediately after surgery which is what I experienced.(of course he's a surgeon so he wants to cut but it was true for me) I waited a long time, I think it was around Nov. of 2010 when I first had issues and didn't have surgery until July of 2011. I did experience some moments of feeling better during that time but it was never "right". After I woke up from surgery I had immediate relieve from the nerve pain, two days after surgery I was only needing Tylenol to manage the pain. If you can get a MircoD using the laser your recover would be even better.

It's been 20 yrs now since I had 3 bulging discs down low and 2 between the shoulder blades. I don't remember what #'s they are but it was yours and the 2 above it. I don't go to the docs much, but the pain was so bad I had too. He gave me pt, chiropractors, pills. After a yr it was even worse, couldn't sit for long, stand, walk or lay down. After about 10 min in any position the hip muscles would get so tight it felt like I was being crushed. I had the surgery on the lower discs, it took ME years to not have daily pain, but as time past so did the pain. Now I knew than and now that there are limits. I can NEVER run, jump, any sort of up down jostle, bend at around a 70* angle for more than a minute. I still get about 20 weeks of pain a yr, but I feel 100 million times better than before the surgery. I have actually been contemplating of going back to the docs and seeing what is new they can do. Everything has advanced so much in 20 years.

Dhide371 said:

I know I'm so torn right now. That doc was my second opinion too... I know myself tho and I am in serious pain I cannot put my shoes on or even force myself to surf which is the hardest thing. I'm inly 25 The doc scared the chit Outta me saying that if I do not i crest this I can forget surfing forever... So very torn as a discectomy scares the living chit Outta me

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I will simply offer this. When I had my first episode in 1993 I was in college in California and had access to one of the top neurosurgeons in California. By the time I was able to get in to see him I was feeling okay and he said, "let's do an MRI as a precaution so we know what we're dealing with if it flares up again." After I got the MRI done, he called me and said it was the worst looking MRI he'd ever seen and he wanted my permission to share it with his partners. His words were "I cannot square what I see on this MRI with you sitting in my office without any visible discomfort."

Fast forward to 2004, when it flared up again. I asked the neurosurgeon I saw that time and he said, "yep, what we've learned is that what looks bad on an MRI doesn't always tell us what is causing the pain, which is why we've learned to be more conservative."

Having said all that, if I had ever been in your situation, I'd probably have the surgery. Sometimes there just are no other options.