Let's talk Corn

Burd · Jan 29, 2015

As most of you know i'm fairly new to the pellet world.
When I first started researching the pellet stove a few years ago pellets where priced at $190 a ton. Two years later and I finally got a stove up and running and pellets are running anywhere from $250-$350 a ton and rising. has anyone ever seen the price go down?
So yesterday I bought 3 bags of feeded corn at a local Agway with 10% moisture at $8.59 for a 50lb bag.
I mixed the corn to a 50/50 and the stove is burning hotter then ever. I real like the fact of burning corn but at these prices its not worth it. (sure glad I'm not feeding farm animals)

I know nothing about corn except for the moisture content. So I have a few questions for the corn burners.

1. What is the difference between shelled corn and feed corn?
2. What is a good price for corn?can you find a market price
3. Do you by it by the bag our bulk?
4. Where does one find a place/farm to get it in bulk?
5. Can you fill containers like rubbermaid or a 55 gallon drum at the farm.
6. Can you mix the corn with cheaper pellet to help keep the price down.
7. What are the other alternative fuels that would be cheaper then corn.

Any input on this would be appreciated and yes I know that the flue needs to be rated..

Burd

tsmith · Jan 29, 2015

I used to burn corn and at that time around $4.00 a bushel was the most I would pay. Only use shelled corn not feed corn. I always bought it bulk at our local Mill. I used 55 gallon plastic drums. It can be mixed 50/50 with cheaper pellets if you desire. You can find the going price of corn on the commodities market report daily. http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/ Here you will see the corn price says 373.25 that would mean $3.73 per bushel, fairly priced right now. A bushel of corn weighs 56 lbs. so it would take 36 bushel to equal a ton of pellets. So therefor, a ton of corn would be $134.28 at the current price compared to whatever you can get pellets for in your area, seeing you are from PA like me, I would figure roughly $220 a ton for pellets right now.

Bioburner · Jan 29, 2015

Shell corn is basically better grade, feed corn is bin run.
We have a elevator two miles north of me and I pay them 20 cents over what they pay the farmer and that is about 50 cents a bu under Chicago market for bulk in a gravity box. Bin run , meaning that it may have some fines or small cob pieces etc.
I see ads on CL of people looking to buy from farmers and they either bring large containers to fill and scale after or farmers advertise corn that they will exchange full barrels for empty.
Most farmers store their corn over 13% RM. Corn can come in at a weight of in the 40's to 60plus lbs per bushel, 4 pecks to bushel, or nearly 8 gallons.
I screen the corn over a 1/2 inch hardware cloth for cob pieces that may plug the auger and corn is held up on a 1/4 inch to take out fines and some chaff as the Bixby will just blow the small stuff out and make for a sooner cleaning of the burn area and the Bixby goes a month or so without cleaning except for ash bin removal.
I made a small batch drier this season to get the corn under 10% moisture and has made for a way better burning and heating product. Worth the extra hassle. Remember pellets has a moisture content of around 7%.
I paid last July $138ton. We have a feed elevator that mixes feed and one can get corn bagged by them for a fixed by ton rate. Been awhile so I can't quote the price.
Another issue to remember is that the venting needs to multifuel if you mix very high ratio and a good cleaning and washing at end of season will keep it in good shape for many years. Seems the very end where all the condensate forms is the major area of problems.

Burd · Jan 29, 2015

tsmith said:
I used to burn corn and at that time around $4.00 a bushel was the most I would pay. Only use shelled corn not feed corn. I always bought it bulk at our local Mill. I used 55 gallon plastic drums. It can be mixed 50/50 with cheaper pellets if you desire. You can find the going price of corn on the commodities market report daily. http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/ Here you will see the corn price says 373.25 that would mean $3.73 per bushel, fairly priced right now. A bushel of corn weighs 56 lbs. so it would take 36 bushel to equal a ton of pellets. So therefor, a ton of corn would be $134.28 at the current price compared to whatever you can get pellets for in your area, seeing you are from PA like me, I would figure roughly $220 a ton for pellets right now.

Tsmith
Thank you for the great info on the prices
I noticed that there where no fines in the feed corn that I bought yesturday then again i'm not at the bottom of the bag.
Could you tell me where your buying the shelled corn from?

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

$3.58 a bushel here (last delivery) plus delivery ($50.00), I typically buy between 600 and 1000 bushel at a time, augered (feom the delivery truck) into my GSI grain tanks for feeding the steers and feeding the stove, feed corn, screened both by gravity (across a screen) and magnetically (for cpmbine parts ot other metal in the corn because steers and heifers will eat metal and get 'hardware disease') Typically I get 12% RM or less delivered, the co-op will tell me the RM prior to delivery. I usually get 2 deliveries a year and it's a farm expense, IOW, the stove is running on basically free corn.

If you want to heat with corn, I suggest buying a used gravity wagon and purchasing a good canvas tarp for it with bows to arch the tarp and keep the corn dry. The wagon needs to have a grain gate and side chute operable so you can unload what you need. Nice thing about a gravity wagon is you can pull it with your car too the elevator and get in filled. You can buy direct from local farmers but it's not advisable unless it's coming off (being picked from the field at less than 12% which is not common normally) and/or the farmer has dryer capabilities and screening capabilities. Quite a gew garmers have dryers, not too many have screening capability. Good uded gravity wagons can be had for around 1200 bucks. Most will need to have new tires, farmers are hell on tires...lol

A gravity wagon is nice, you can park it in your driveway or next to your house and one wagon load (typically 4-5 ton will go about all winter mixing 50-50.

Because I buy pre screened, I never clean my coorn prior to roasting, it's good to go right from the tank. I get a little chaff and ocassionally some small cob chunks but nothing my stove auger cannot handle. I really like pre screened (magnetically) because combines can and do loose metal parts and a bolt or nut could ruin your fuel delivery system.

Not all stoves will handle corn or a corn-pellet mix. They need to be 'multi-fuel' capable. Good example of a non corn stove os the Englander 25PDV. Because of the fuel delivery system and absence of an ash drop, it would load up very quickly on corn. Venting should be corn (nitric acid vapor) rated. Corn will give off nitric acid as it burns and the nitric vapor is corrosive so maintenance is important, much more important than when just burning pellets, especially the venting. I use regular (pellet rated venting 'Simpson') but the venting, whether it's corn rated or not, needs to be cleaned thoroughly after every season (I take mine apart and pressure wash it inside), and the stove needs to be cleaned inside and cpated with a corrosion preventive (I use Stabil fogging oil). If you don't meticuously clean it at the end of the season, it will corrode away from the nitric acid.

So lond as you understand the cleaning and maintenace regimen and the stove is corn capable (and so are you), corn is a real viable fuel source.

Corn will probably remain in the $3.50-$4.00 per bushel range for the foreseeable future but it will ultimately rise again. Anything over $4.00/bu and pellets (at current price levels are a better deal and of course, NG will always be a better deal.

Burd · Jan 29, 2015

Okay this is great info
Could you guy tell me how many bushels are in a 55gal drum
Allso how do you know that the shelled corn is ready to burn?( I trust no one when it come to money) after burning firewood you get to know if a peaice of would is dry or not by feel, touch and a lot of time handling it. So do you have any tricks to share.
When it comes to asking a farmer what do you ask for? Like anything else that burns clean it needs to be dry.

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

You can buy a moisture meter for corn (Gemplers sells them, Ag-Tronics makes them) or you can use the pliers test. The pliers test is taking a kernel and squeezing it with a pair of slip joint pliers. As the kernel crushes, observe it. If it flattens out and appears mushy, chances are the RM is too high. If it cracks and splinters, the RM is OK.

I use a Delmhorst myself but they are pretty expensive (about a grand for the meter and probes) and the pliers test works fine for your application.

I have no idea on bushel to 55 gallon drium quantity, I don't handle my corn that way....,

Bioburner · Jan 29, 2015

As in my earlier post about a 8 gallons to a bushel. I chew on a kernel. If it readily snaps it pretty dry. If it can be broke with a good thumbnail its under or around 10%

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

If a farmer has drying capability and he is using late model equipment to harvest (rotary combine and well maintained shaker screens), it's feasible to obtain corn thats clean enough and dry enough to burn direct from the grower and you can haggle a bit to get the price down because if the farmer has to deliver the corn to the elevator or bulk storage facility, he incurs transportation costs and storage fees (at the elevator) so price can be negotiable.

The only exception to that will be growers that are contract growing for ethanol. Thats all contract corn and probably not for sale.

Burd · Jan 29, 2015

SidecarFlip said:
$3.58 a bushel here (last delivery) plus delivery ($50.00), I typically buy between 600 and 1000 bushel at a time, augered (feom the delivery truck) into my GSI grain tanks for feeding the steers and feeding the stove, feed corn, screened both by gravity (across a screen) and magnetically (for cpmbine parts ot other metal in the corn because steers and heifers will eat metal and get 'hardware disease') Typically I get 12% RM or less delivered, the co-op will tell me the RM prior to delivery. I usually get 2 deliveries a year and it's a farm expense, IOW, the stove is running on basically free corn.

If you want to heat with corn, I suggest buying a used gravity wagon and purchasing a good canvas tarp for it with bows to arch the tarp and keep the corn dry. The wagon needs to have a grain gate and side chute operable so you can unload what you need. Nice thing about a gravity wagon is you can pull it with your car too the elevator and get in filled. You can buy direct from local farmers but it's not advisable unless it's coming off (being picked from the field at less than 12% which is not common normally) and/or the farmer has dryer capabilities and screening capabilities. Quite a gew garmers have dryers, not too many have screening capability. Good uded gravity wagons can be had for around 1200 bucks. Most will need to have new tires, farmers are hell on tires...lol

A gravity wagon is nice, you can park it in your driveway or next to your house and one wagon load (typically 4-5 ton will go about all winter mixing 50-50.

Because I buy pre screened, I never clean my coorn prior to roasting, it's good to go right from the tank. I get a little chaff and ocassionally some small cob chunks but nothing my stove auger cannot handle. I really like pre screened (magnetically) because combines can and do loose metal parts and a bolt or nut could ruin your fuel delivery system.

Not all stoves will handle corn or a corn-pellet mix. They need to be 'multi-fuel' capable. Good example of a non corn stove os the Englander 25PDV. Because of the fuel delivery system and absence of an ash drop, it would load up very quickly on corn. Venting should be corn (nitric acid vapor) rated. Corn will give off nitric acid as it burns and the nitric vapor is corrosive so maintenance is important, much more important than when just burning pellets, especially the venting. I use regular (pellet rated venting 'Simpson') but the venting, whether it's corn rated or not, needs to be cleaned thoroughly after every season (I take mine apart and pressure wash it inside), and the stove needs to be cleaned inside and cpated with a corrosion preventive (I use Stabil fogging oil). If you don't meticuously clean it at the end of the season, it will corrode away from the nitric acid.

So lond as you understand the cleaning and maintenace regimen and the stove is corn capable (and so are you), corn is a real viable fuel source.

Corn will probably remain in the $3.50-$4.00 per bushel range for the foreseeable future but it will ultimately rise again. Anything over $4.00/bu and pellets (at current price levels are a better deal and of course, NG will always be a better deal.

Sidecar
I don't think i'll be burning that much corn a year to invest in a gravity wagon. I'm thinking mybe 1 1/2 ton of corn and 2 tons of pellets to get me through the year. If this all works out i'll be rethinking the fire place insert. (One less chore )
i'm thinking more on the lines of the 55 gal drums for transporting and storage.
So I take it It would be in my best interest to ask for screened shelled corn

jp99 · Jan 29, 2015

I have a 40 gallon drum I use with a corn vac attachment on top and a PVC ball valve outlet on the bottom for dispensing into a bucket.

The drum will hold about 400 to 450 lbs. 450 if I poured corn in to the top, 400 when I vacuum it in because it creates a peak of corn near the corn vac inlet and blocks it from further vacuuming.

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

Burd said:
Sidecar
I don't think i'll be burning that much corn a year to invest in a gravity wagon. I'm thinking mybe 1 1/2 ton of corn and 2 tons of pellets to get me through the year. If this all works out i'll be rethinking the fire place insert. (One less chore )
i'm thinking more on the lines of the 55 gal drums for transporting and storage.
So I take it It would be in my best interest to ask for screened shelled corn

Absolutely. If you get it from a reputable source it will be clean enough to run as you receive it. I've never invested in a corn cleaner of any kind (corn vac or rotary screener) simply because my co-op gets all the trash out before I get it.

You can get corn with trash in it too but then you need to invest in a corn cleaner (they are on Flea-Bay, CL and Amazon but it is an added expense and time consumer. I prefer not cleaning it myself.

You can probably get it bagged to, but it won't be in pellet like, sealed bags but rather gunny sacks with string tied tops. Most elevators don't have bag lines with sealers.

jp99 · Jan 29, 2015

SidecarFlip said:
You can probably get it bagged to, but it won't be in pellet like, sealed bags but rather gunny sacks with string tied tops. Most elevators don't have bag lines with sealers.

It's rare, but a good place in Norwalk OH caters to the corn burning market. They dry, clean and bag corn in multilayer thick paper sacks, with string stitching the top and bottom closed. You pull on the top of the bag on one end of the string, the string unzips, and the bag is open and ready to pour. The paper sacks hold 50# and look similar in shape and size to the 40# pellet bags.

It's easy to buy there - you pull in with your pickup, they load the back, you pay cash, and you're out the barn in 5-8 minutes, depending on how much you buy. It works for me because where I live (suburbs) they take a dim view of corn silos

1kzwoman · Jan 29, 2015

I also considered corn when I was looking at non NG heat source. Pellets and wood were there too.
I settled on wood, with corn a close second .
I was raised on a livestock ranch, wher corn was feed. You can have corn screened where it is cleaned using air.
Even for feed, your elevator should be able to tell you moisture content as they buy from producers with a certain % in mind. They should also be able to dry to your specifications.
I opted for woodstove for the moisture control and storage issues.
Plus these a whole lot of wood fence posts in this part of country if times get tough haha

Burd · Jan 29, 2015

jp99 said:
I have a 40 gallon drum I use with a corn vac attachment on top and a PVC ball valve outlet on the bottom for dispensing into a bucket.

The drum will hold about 400 to 450 lbs. 450 if I poured corn in to the top, 400 when I vacuum it in because it creates a peak of corn near the corn vac inlet and blocks it from further vacuuming.

Burd · Jan 29, 2015

WOW I'm now thinking of ways to carrie/store corn. I really like jp99 idea with the drums. What did I get my self into?
Now it's time to find the bulk corn in my area. If all else falls I can head out to Lancaster Pa (Amish country)but that a good hour away.
Hummm any Ideas?

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

jp99 said:
It's rare, but a good place in Norwalk OH caters to the corn burning market. They dry, clean and bag corn in multilayer thick paper sacks, with string stitching the top and bottom closed. You pull on the top of the bag on one end of the string, the string unzips, and the bag is open and ready to pour. The paper sacks hold 50# and look similar in shape and size to the 40# pellet bags.

It's easy to buy there - you pull in with your pickup, they load the back, you pay cash, and you're out the barn in 5-8 minutes, depending on how much you buy. It works for me because where I live (suburbs) they take a dim view of corn silos

That term went away years ago (along with hoop silo's). They are grain tanks today. My cousin is part owner of that mill but it's a bit far for me to drive. Sounds like you have a good source however (so long as the price is competitive).

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

1kzwoman said:
I also considered corn when I was looking at non NG heat source. Pellets and wood were there too.
I settled on wood, with corn a close second .
I was raised on a livestock ranch, wher corn was feed. You can have corn screened where it is cleaned using air.
Even for feed, your elevator should be able to tell you moisture content as they buy from producers with a certain % in mind. They should also be able to dry to your specifications.
I opted for woodstove for the moisture control and storage issues.
Plus these a whole lot of wood fence posts in this part of country if times get tough haha

All the ones I've seen on my out west hunting trips look like hell (and need to be roasted....lol)

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

Burd said:
WOW I'm now thinking of ways to carrie/store corn. I really like jp99 idea with the drums. What did I get my self into?
Now it's time to find the bulk corn in my area. If all else falls I can head out to Lancaster Pa (Amish country)but that a good hour away.
Hummm any Ideas?

I'd head the other way (west) toward Ohio. The farther you go east, the less corn will be available.

Invest in a dump trailer or rent a U-all and fill it (don't forget to tarp it.

jp99 · Jan 29, 2015

SidecarFlip said:
That term went away years ago (along with hoop silo's). They are grain tanks today. My cousin is part owner of that mill but it's a bit far for me to drive. Sounds like you have a good source however (so long as the price is competitive).

Guess I'm dating myself :D

It's a nice mill, even if it is far to drive for me. To get quality pellets I have to drive just about as far but go east, so the corn or pellet price is all that matters. The only pellets near my area are at Home Depot or a TSC, and they are pricey or not high quality.

Today their corn price is $4/50# bag, or $160 ton. Pellets are $240/ton plus tax.

jp99 · Jan 29, 2015

Burd said:
WOW I'm now thinking of ways to carrie/store corn. I really like jp99 idea with the drums. What did I get my self into?

Just in case it helps, this is my 40 gallon drum setup. One important thing about using it with a vacuum - use a method to reduce the suction vacuum at the drum. My PVC parts in the top have a fitting with holes in it to do that, by screwing a fitting in or out.

Bioburner · Jan 29, 2015

I used a chest freezer one year. Mounted to the trailer for the winter. Vermin resistant and does not look to bad if sits out. They show up free all the time and lot of them in our area end up in a horse barn to store the nags sweet feed and molasses.

SidecarFlip · Jan 29, 2015

Bioburner said:
I used a chest freezer one year. Mounted to the trailer for the winter. Vermin resistant and does not look to bad if sits out. They show up free all the time and lot of them in our area end up in a horse barn to store the nags sweet feed and molasses.

Certainly are vermin proof.

Arti · Jan 29, 2015

Because corn varies the numbers below are approximate.

6.5 bushels per 55-gallon drum.
350 lbs in a 55 gallon drum of corn.
6 55 gallon drums make a ton of corn.
Corn elevators sell corn by wieght.

I would suggest burning a mix of corn and pellets.

Burd · Jan 29, 2015

That's a good point I never thought about attracting mice.
I'm thinking of using a plastic blue barrel with lid...
I first need to find a local mill
Any idea's on finding a local mill

Let's talk Corn

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