What stove is in my Alaska cabin

coldfoot · Jan 28, 2015

I just bought a cabin. I'm trying to ID the stove. The chimney pipe size is 6". The box is big, about 22 inches long. Their is a diffuser on the inside top of the stove. It looks like a half pipe and runs from the chimney hole to the side, about 12" long. Their is a little air flapper valve on the side that feeds air to the bottom of the stove. You can see the flapper on the left.

The log cabin was built in the mid 80's and the stove may be from that era. I'm struggling with the air flow as I get smoke out the stove door when loading with wood. The cabin is not air tight. I get the smoke with the cabin doors open or closed. No damper in the chimney pipe. I just cleaned the pipe. About 13' of total stove/chimney pipe. Also, I must leave the stove door opened slightly to keep the fire going. My wood has been real dry, 3+ year split birch and spruce.

Any ideas on the stove manufacturer?

Suggestions to make this thing breath?

Thanks for any input.

BrotherBart · Jan 28, 2015

A local welder special.

bholler · Jan 28, 2015

Yea hthat is a homemade stove for sure sounds like you are doing everything ok it may just be bad stove design

GENECOP · Jan 28, 2015

Looks home grown for sure, try adding a draft inducer

bholler · Jan 28, 2015

GENECOP said:
Looks home grown for sure, try adding a draft inducer

I would never recommend putting a draft inducer on any stove. A draw collar yes draft inducer no they are dangerous and don't fix anything

GENECOP · Jan 28, 2015

bholler said:
I would never recommend putting a draft inducer on any stove. A draw collar yes draft inducer no they are dangerous and don't fix anything

What is the primary difference?

GENECOP · Jan 28, 2015

http://www.draftinducers.com/ad1.htm

bholler · Jan 28, 2015

GENECOP said:
What is the primary difference?

A draw collar is a collar that has a small heater in it to get some geat into the flue and jump start draft it is sealed and does not introduce air into the flue. The draft inducer that you linked to introduces air into the smoke stream which cools it and creates more creosote. Also if you have a chimney fire with one in the pipe you are forcing more air into the burning chimney wich will make the fire even worse.

bholler · Jan 28, 2015

Draw collars have very limited applications where they will help but they are not dangerous.

Osage · Jan 29, 2015

Looks like someone converted their old TV.

coaly · Jan 29, 2015

Not sure I understand the air intake. What prevents anything from falling out? The air should come in the opposite side as the opening into outlet pipe diffuser or whatever. You want the flow changing directions inside the stove. If that is another air intake half way up the stove, air coming in above the fire slips up the chimney - not through the fire. That will lower the flue gas temperature, decreasing draft. Also it should be firebrick lined. If not covered with brick on bottom, you can add an inch of sand and always leave an inch of ash on the bottom when cleaning out, even with firebricks.
The lower the door, the less chance of smoke when open. The exhaust outlet should face AWAY from door so the flow of smoke is away from opening. Always crack it and wait a few seconds to allow heat up and get drafting before opening fully, slowly. Smoke will roll in at the top. You can bolt a hinge with flapper hanging down inside across door top to lower the top edge opening. It should swing in for loading larger logs. Some stoves incorporate a door handle that needs to be rotated one way, open slightly and rotate the other to open. This creates a time lag opening and a few seconds can make a difference.
Pictures of the inside and air flapper would help.

Is there double or triple wall chimney pipe outside? There is stove connector pipe and Class A chimney. How many feet of each?

coldfoot · Jan 29, 2015

GENECOP said:
http://www.draftinducers.com/ad1.htm

I'm off rip

coaly said:
Not sure I understand the air intake. What prevents anything from falling out? The air should come in the opposite side as the opening into outlet pipe diffuser or whatever. You want the flow changing directions inside the stove. If that is another air intake half way up the stove, air coming in above the fire slips up the chimney - not through the fire. That will lower the flue gas temperature, decreasing draft. Also it should be firebrick lined. If not covered with brick on bottom, you can add an inch of sand and always leave an inch of ash on the bottom when cleaning out, even with firebricks.
The lower the door, the less chance of smoke when open. The exhaust outlet should face AWAY from door so the flow of smoke is away from opening. Always crack it and wait a few seconds to allow heat up and get drafting before opening fully, slowly. Smoke will roll in at the top. You can bolt a hinge with flapper hanging down inside across door top to lower the top edge opening. It should swing in for loading larger logs. Some stoves incorporate a door handle that needs to be rotated one way, open slightly and rotate the other to open. This creates a time lag opening and a few seconds can make a difference.
Pictures of the inside and air flapper would help.

Is there double or triple wall chimney pipe outside? There is stove connector pipe and Class A chimney. How many feet of each?

I'm headed to the cabin this weekend. I'll take pictures.

Stove to double wall 5'
Double wall thru roof 3'
Single wall chimney to cap 5'

Double wall only thru the roof. Single wall on either side of the roof. I plan to fix this in the next couple of weeks with double wall outside.

Here's a picture that started this adventure. With icy roof conditions, I ran a brush up from the inside the cabin. The chimney pipe disconnected. You can see the brush in the picture. Not secured at the last joint. I have since re-attached the chimney. I also cleaned out the half pipe in the top of the stove thru the stove chimney hole.

bioman · Jan 29, 2015

Looks like the same welder guy installed the chimney ! :rolleyes:

coaly · Jan 29, 2015

In answer to suggestions to make it breathe;
What makes the air go into the firebox is the temperature differential between inside flue and outside. It has to have a chimney that stays hot inside compared to out. This is Solid Fuel Chimney. Or Class A Chimney. The single wall connector pipe is for connecting appliance to chimney. Connector pipe is also available in double wall, but that is not chimney pipe. Your outside single wall pipe will chill the inside flue temp. The object is keeping the inside temp above 250* f all the way out. Below that, water vapor from combustion condenses and smoke particle stick forming creosote.
The warmer you can keep inner flue (Chimney sections are insulated) the lighter the rising gasses. This buoyancy is what causes atmospheric air pressure to PUSH into the stove intake supplying oxygen to the fire. Otherwise known as draft. The less draft, the less is the lower pressure area in connector pipe and stove. So when you open door, the chimney which you don't have, needs to cause the higher pressure air indoors to rush into door opening preventing it from spilling into room. The more heat loss you have in a poor chimney, the more heat you have to leave up. You can't leave enough up to create a strong enough draft to make the stove work.
Here's a link to a thread with the basics that may help explain things more;
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-fisher-owner.137880/

coaly · Jan 29, 2015

bioman said:
Looks like the same welder guy installed the chimney !

It's not a chimney, it's an antenna !! ::-)

coaly · Jan 29, 2015

Here's a kit; the through the roof is much cheaper and stays hotter inside without running exterior up the side of building;
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DuraVent...himney-Stove-Pipe-Vent-Kit-6DP-KBSC/100115151

And the pipe; Stainless inner liner is wrapped with insulation between second inner pipe, and a outer stainless pipe outside allows closer clearance to combustible at ceiling support box and keeps cold air away from inner insulated flue liner. It is a must.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DuraVent...gclid=CJaj68G4usMCFfPm7AodwTwAsQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Read instructions online so you have an idea what's involved. It must terminate at least 3 feet above roof and meet other criteria to draft properly.
The other type insulated chimney is a double wall "pack" chimney that is smaller in diameter and much heavier in weight. I believe Selkirk at Lowe's is the cheapest competitor.

Once you have a good drafting chimney, a damper in the connector pipe may be required to slow the draft extending burn times. Where you are with colder temps may require you to run damper wide open requiring more heat from the stove to go up the chimney. A surface thermometer on the pipe where it enters chimney will give you an idea of what temp you are putting into the chimney, and figure the loss to the top to keep above the 250* point. Check creosote formation often until you know how much you create. You will be amazed how much hotter the stove gets and how warm the cabin is. Like the thread linked above explains, the chimney is more important than the stove.

begreen · Jan 30, 2015

Definitely not a legal chimney setup. This needs a class A chimney. Quite honestly there is little shown so far that is legal or firesafe. The hearth pad is inadequate. 36" clearance not observed. Who knows what type of pipe goes through the ceiling and roof?

coldfoot · Jan 30, 2015

Thanks for all the input.

The stove picture is from the previous owners. We have since moved everything away from the stove. The hearth pad will be replaced by next week.

The cabin is remote and off the grid. No road access. Snowmobile or Argo only. It's over 30 years old with this stove on that pad in the same spot. The roof was replaced 10 years ago so I believe the chimney was as well. There is Metalbestos class A thru the ceiling and roof.

I'm not concerned about 'legal' but being reasonably safe and comfortable.

Not sure what you mean by the 36" rule. Please explain.

Thanks again for the information. I'll get this figured out.

begreen · Jan 30, 2015

Thanks for the update coldfoot. We want you safe too. The hearth pad should extend 8" beyond the sides and back and 16" in front of the stove door. It should be rated per the insulation requirement of the stove. All non-UL tested stoves fall under the 36" clearance rule. That means 36" from the nearest combustible in all directions. If the stove has been replaced with a UL tested stove, then follow the clearances listed on the label on the rear of the stove or in the manual.

bholler · Jan 30, 2015

And fix that "chimney"

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