Berner
Feeling the Heat
What stove top temps were present during these over fires? Did you do something different during these burns to cause it to spike? What did you do to bring the temps back down?
Progress Hybrid tips, tricks, and expectations?
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What stove top temps were present during these over fires? Did you do something different during these burns to cause it to spike? What did you do to bring the temps back down?
Tenn Dave
Minister of Fire
This thread is an interesting read about stoves being over fired. Start at the beginning - a lot of interesting opinions and experiences including the PH.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-to-runaway-than-another.101621/#post-1306877
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-to-runaway-than-another.101621/#post-1306877
alforit
Feeling the Heat
I think the PH was loaded 3/4 to full each time the overheating happened........... I don't remember the stove top temps. It always occurred sometime in the night , so when I got to it in the morning , it was like a nuclear event had happened ....The house was super warm with a weird smell , and the stove was on the down swing. I wondered if the hearth was that hot at the time I was there, then how hot did it get in the night ?
How hot is the hearth getting under and around yall's PH? I just installed my PH yesterday and the left and right sides of the stove, more towards the front corners is getting up to 180 or so This was with a fairly small fire. Stove top temps were 350ish on the top cover plate, and ranged from 300-400 elsewhere on the stove body. flue temp was reading about 260 with a IR therm on my SS liner. With my old stove the hearth would normally be around 115, and a max of 150 with a very large roaring fire. So 180 with a small fire was not what i was expecting. Just curious if this is the norm. The areas getting this hot was in the vicinity of the underbody of the stove between the edge cast and the bottom heat shield/ash pan. Areas not near this exposed section of the stove under body only got to 110-25ish.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
180F Hearth temp does sound really really high. I'll take some measurements next time I get a chance.
The three things I know that impact hearth temps on the Progress: Ash lip is needed to reduce Hearth R value requirements, IR reflective glass lowers Hearth temps, Long vs Short legs matters.
Of course all the required bottom-stove heat shields must be installed correctly.
The three things I know that impact hearth temps on the Progress: Ash lip is needed to reduce Hearth R value requirements, IR reflective glass lowers Hearth temps, Long vs Short legs matters.
Of course all the required bottom-stove heat shields must be installed correctly.
I have the tall legs and the ash lip. Seems to just be in the vicinity where the heat shield doesnt cover
So last night i didn't reload the stove as i was concerned about the high temps and wanted to be able to keep a close eye on it for its first burn of any lengthy duration. It probably burned out somewhere around midnight. I got up at 2am for work and stove was around 150. Got home around 6 and loaded it up maybe 30%, and the problem has gone away it seems... Been burning for about 2 hours now, stove top around 450. Hearth temps 110-125ish.
Not sure what it could be other than that there is a small amount of ash in the stove now.
Not sure what it could be other than that there is a small amount of ash in the stove now.
Oldman47
Minister of Fire
At 120ºF the surface will feel hot enough to burn exposed skin. If you touch something that hot you will pull back your hand in under 2 seconds. At 180ºF you are way outside anyone's comfort zone. If anything near a stove got that hot I would definitely be looking for what the cause was.
Hmm, this is the second report of a PH getting the hearth very hot. Yet others say their hearth is just warm. Rambler, what is your hearth constructed of or rated at? Woodstock calls for R=.80 insulation. Is there an ashpan on the stove?
Tenn Dave
Minister of Fire
Mine gets warm but not hot. I can easily keep my hand on it. And I do have the ash pan.
There is an ash pan on my stove. With the optional ash lip you can go down to .40. My hearth is .41. Durock next gen, with ceramic tile on top.
I have been playing with the stove most of the day and i think i have figured out when its doing it/getting the hearth hot. When i have a good strong fire or secondaries going the hearth doesnt get over 100-115. But, when it is reduced to largely coals the bottom of the stove, the 2 sides where the heat shield leaves a small portion of the stove body exposed gets to about 600ish degrees and thus radiates down at an angle onto the hearth causing the 180ish temps. Same spot on the stove body with good strong draft going and strong secondaries is only 350-450, and temps on the hearth max out at 115.
I have been playing with the stove most of the day and i think i have figured out when its doing it/getting the hearth hot. When i have a good strong fire or secondaries going the hearth doesnt get over 100-115. But, when it is reduced to largely coals the bottom of the stove, the 2 sides where the heat shield leaves a small portion of the stove body exposed gets to about 600ish degrees and thus radiates down at an angle onto the hearth causing the 180ish temps. Same spot on the stove body with good strong draft going and strong secondaries is only 350-450, and temps on the hearth max out at 115.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
Very interesting - I'll be checking this out next time I burn to a hot load of coals. The implication is the excess heat is radiating from the bottom of the stove and NOT from the window.
Tenn Dave
Minister of Fire
Last time I checked mine it was about 110* but I did not check during the coaling stage. Next time I fire her up, I will check again with a hot coal bed. If you're really concerned, you can have one of those mini fans blow cool air under the stove across the hearth. Probably not necessary, but will give you peace of mind.
The Progress Hybrid comes with a bottom heat shield for both the ash pan and non-ash pan models.
I have never noticed heat on the hearth, except right in front of the glass. Generally the hearth pad is cool to the touch.
I checked the pad repeatedly today, during various stages of a burn that went for many hours at about 420 degrees. The hearth pad remained cool throughout the burn. When it was posted that the area in question was basically under the stove, I gathered near where the legs are, I checked that area and it was cool also. I checked it again when burning the coals down. At one point, when I was burning the coals down, the pad was warm to the touch there, but nothing uncomfortable, and certainly nothing that could burn one or was worrisome.
I called Woodstock today about this, spoke with Mike. He was not at all concerned about a temperature of 180 degrees. He said that with the proper hearth protection that was not a problem. He did ask a few questions, such as how the temperature was being measured, exactly where it was being measured, whether the bolts were tightly fastened that retain the heat shield. If they are, between the bolts and the gaskets he was not concerned about a possible air leak. Several other comments as well, but fundamentally he did not feel there was a problem.
I had already spoken with Woodstock when Rambler posted his second reply, which gave more detail re the heat in question. Seems the area is actually under the stove, where it presents no risk of burn and is protected by the hearth pad.
I am still surprised he is getting those readings, especially with the stove burning at the temps mentioned.
I have never noticed heat on the hearth, except right in front of the glass. Generally the hearth pad is cool to the touch.
I checked the pad repeatedly today, during various stages of a burn that went for many hours at about 420 degrees. The hearth pad remained cool throughout the burn. When it was posted that the area in question was basically under the stove, I gathered near where the legs are, I checked that area and it was cool also. I checked it again when burning the coals down. At one point, when I was burning the coals down, the pad was warm to the touch there, but nothing uncomfortable, and certainly nothing that could burn one or was worrisome.
I called Woodstock today about this, spoke with Mike. He was not at all concerned about a temperature of 180 degrees. He said that with the proper hearth protection that was not a problem. He did ask a few questions, such as how the temperature was being measured, exactly where it was being measured, whether the bolts were tightly fastened that retain the heat shield. If they are, between the bolts and the gaskets he was not concerned about a possible air leak. Several other comments as well, but fundamentally he did not feel there was a problem.
I had already spoken with Woodstock when Rambler posted his second reply, which gave more detail re the heat in question. Seems the area is actually under the stove, where it presents no risk of burn and is protected by the hearth pad.
I am still surprised he is getting those readings, especially with the stove burning at the temps mentioned.
alforit
Feeling the Heat
I had a similar experience as you ... Except my
Thanks for sharing this Rambler.......I had a similar experience with the Progress Hybrid , though my hearth reached temps way beyond 180 degrees on three different occasions . I had a pretty full load when these occurred . They happened in the night so I couldn't tell what the max temp of the hearth had reached. But it was way beyond 180 Degrees in the morning when got to it. And the stove was already on the downswing by that time...I couldn't tell what area it was coming from because the whole hearth area right below the stove was so hot. My hearth is 3/4 plywood base with 1/2 Durock on top with 1/4 ceramic tile on top of that . I did not have the ash pan on my stove. And it had the long legs.
Keep us posted on whats happening .
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Are you running with the recommended 1 or 2" of ash in the bottom? Could that help with insulating the bottom portion?
Not yet, but i should have the recommended amount of ash in a short time. As the ash is building up i have noticed the temps dropping proportionally.
Just a guess, but I will stick my neck out with...when you get there with the ash level, I think you will see some of those spike temps to be moderated. Keep us informed. This is interesting stuff.
Tenn Dave
Minister of Fire
Did a test run late yesterday afternoon starting with a clean stove box. Ran stove up to 510* and tested the hearth temps through out the burn to the coaling stage. Hearth pad directly under the ash pan was cool to the tough. Area right beyond ash pan was warm especially in front and sides of stove. Temp measured 106* in hottest area with IR gun. Felt comfortably warm to the touch. Note: I have a Woodstock hearth pad, long legs, and ash pan.. Hopefully other current PH owners will post their observations.
Well, today my Progress is being weird. Today I reloaded as I always do with the same wood, I let the wood char on the outside, and I closed it all down. I came back and checked the stove about an hour later and the stovetop temperature dropped about 250° although I could see many red coals glowing. When I opened the side door the fire sprang into life immediately. I quickly closed the door and the secondaries fired off the instant I closed the door, and the temp shot back up to 450° on the stove top. That load then burned normally, and the next load seems to struggle--stove doesn't want to go over 400°, even with the air more open than usual, again all with the same wood.
Thoughts/suggestions?
Thoughts/suggestions?
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fire_man
Minister of Fire
I have experienced very similar events. Sometimes the stove heats quickly after reload, other times it's sluggish. One time the stovetop just hovered at 350F with brown smoke pouring from the flue. All I did that day was crack the air from completely closed to very slightly open and the smoke immediately went to pure white and the stovetop temp rose quickly. I noticed you did mention using more air. I have found the "more air" part important after closing the bypass - leave it open at least an inch or two for at least 5-10 minutes before lowering it.
I have found it helpful to place a magnetic thermometer in the upper right cast iron trim in the corner of the window frame. I never engage the cat until that thermometer reads at least 230F (just into the yellow on my thermometer). This is especially important when there is no well-established hot coal base in the stove upon reloading.
Other tips: Give the cat a quick vacuum every 3 weeks or so and if you are using the iconel screen make sure it is not obstructed with fly ash.
You say "always with the same wood" but does that mean the wood is 2-3 year seasoned or 1 year seasoned? That part is really important. You can get away with somewhat unseasoned wood, but you have to really get those stovetemps up before engaging the cat.
One more thing I did that has improved the odds I get more consistent lightoffs: I added 2 feet of flue to my 15' stack. This definitely helped a lot. In fact I am convinced this is the single biggest factor in getting consistent lightoffs. I say this because I had the same problem with both the Fireview and Progress installed in the 15 foot flue. This year - in another location of my house, I installed a Palladian (similar construction as the Fireview) using a 25 foot flue, and the difference is unbelievable. I never once this entire fall/winter ever had a problem getting a fast lightoff with no fussing. Yes its a brand new cat, but we have had over 20 reloads with lots of burn time on the same cat now.
I have found it helpful to place a magnetic thermometer in the upper right cast iron trim in the corner of the window frame. I never engage the cat until that thermometer reads at least 230F (just into the yellow on my thermometer). This is especially important when there is no well-established hot coal base in the stove upon reloading.
Other tips: Give the cat a quick vacuum every 3 weeks or so and if you are using the iconel screen make sure it is not obstructed with fly ash.
You say "always with the same wood" but does that mean the wood is 2-3 year seasoned or 1 year seasoned? That part is really important. You can get away with somewhat unseasoned wood, but you have to really get those stovetemps up before engaging the cat.
One more thing I did that has improved the odds I get more consistent lightoffs: I added 2 feet of flue to my 15' stack. This definitely helped a lot. In fact I am convinced this is the single biggest factor in getting consistent lightoffs. I say this because I had the same problem with both the Fireview and Progress installed in the 15 foot flue. This year - in another location of my house, I installed a Palladian (similar construction as the Fireview) using a 25 foot flue, and the difference is unbelievable. I never once this entire fall/winter ever had a problem getting a fast lightoff with no fussing. Yes its a brand new cat, but we have had over 20 reloads with lots of burn time on the same cat now.
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Tenn Dave
Minister of Fire
Try checking your cat and make sure it is not partially clogged. Also, just to be sure I would check the MC of your wood on the next reload. Sometimes there can be a section of your wood pile that is wetter then the rest. It has happened to me.
joshrohde
New Member
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