Opening the stove's door produces odd sound coming from the pipe ...

A M · Jan 29, 2015

begreen said:
Hmm, that crack is not good, especially not on a new stove. Has it been reported to the dealer?

The picture helps, but next time please post one of the stove right after its been loaded, but before the wood is flaming so that we can see how you are loading the stove. It's hard to tell when the flames obscure the wood.

No, ... I only noticed it a few weeks after it was put in the living room. I have no idea whether it came this way from Drolet (via Northern Tool's transit), or occurred when removed from the moving van into my garage and then into the living room. With the "ridge" all the way around the very top surface of the stove, I don't see how the local guys could have made this happen. The opposite side, the right side above the door's opening, well, there is no "seam" whatsoever. It is completely smooth.

I surely hope that this is not the reason and I do not want to jump to any incorrect conclusion.

When I load again in the next few days, depending on my camera mood ...

... I'll take a photo of a "full" load BEFORE it begins to burn and record the times and temps I'm seeing.

I was hoping the opinion would be that the crack is "nothing," but, again, I do not want to assume the worse, just because it is visible, so no, I did not report it to Drolet or NT. I hope I have not done myself a disservice by not telling them once I noticed it. I'll just have to deal with it if it turns out to be "something."

begreen · Jan 29, 2015

I would call this a warranty defect and get it reported.

saskwoodburner · Jan 29, 2015

I haven't read all the posts, well I have but not this morning. Is it possible A M is over gassing when the wood starts off gassing (the point where the wood starts charring and the fire flares/jumps to life)? Maybe I have too much time on my hands, but that was one of my many mistakes over the last few months as a new burner. The fire would sure rage, but fall off quickly.

begreen · Jan 29, 2015

It's possible. That's why I want to see the wood load before it starts burning. If there are too many air gaps with smaller splits, the wood can offgas rapidly and the fire die down quickly afterward.

A M · Jan 29, 2015

begreen said:
I would call this a warranty defect and get it reported.

Really? You think I should let Northern Tool know? They probably won't care as it is now the end of January and I bought it about late November, 2014? Don't even know what a "warranty" is, time-wise, on a wood stove, since this is my very first NEW one.

A M · Jan 29, 2015

saskwoodburner said:
I haven't read all the posts, well I have but not this morning. Is it possible A M is over gassing when the wood starts off gassing (the point where the wood starts charring and the fire flares/jumps to life)? Maybe I have too much time on my hands, but that was one of my many mistakes over the last few months as a new burner. The fire would sure rage, but fall off quickly.

Do you mean by "over-gassing" - giving it too much air and not shutting the air down enough while its gone through its flames mode, and then starts to charcoal up?

begreen · Jan 29, 2015

A M said:
Really? You think I should let Northern Tool know? They probably won't care as it is now the end of January and I bought it about late November, 2014? Don't even know what a "warranty" is, time-wise, on a wood stove, since this is my very first NEW one.

Yes, you are well within the warranty period. Report it to Northern Tool and include the picture.

A M · Jan 29, 2015

begreen said:
It's possible. That's why I want to see the wood load before it starts burning. If there are too many air gaps with smaller splits, the wood can offgas rapidly and the fire die down quickly afterward.

Just wanted to give an update on my 10:10AM "re-load." I put in four medium splits. Yes, there was air between two of the pieces of wood, as you could see the "red" on the bottom of the box. The temp got up to "550" and right now it is just going into "450," so, the 550 spot stayed for almost two hours. It's 12:25AM, right now. I think that is better than yesterday's disappointing drop. Too early to tell, BUT, maybe this has nothing to do with the crack on the stove. I hope it does not, but, I should still report it to NT, as you suggested.

begreen · Jan 29, 2015

We can't tell from a picture if the crack is spreading and/or getting worse. We can't tell how badly it's leaking air and we can't tell if something on the other side of this crack has broken free. Report it right away.

A M · Jan 29, 2015

begreen said:
Yes, you are well within the warranty period. Report it to Northern Tool and include the picture.

OK, I will. I don't know what they can do, though, as it would be a huge hassle to get it out of the LR and outside waiting for a delivery truck to take it back. Since there were concerns with their truck driver getting through this one-way road, I found two employees at a truck rental place in town to receive the delivery three miles from where I live. They took the crated stove and delivered it to me in a moving van later that day. Anyway, I'll let them know.

Just wanted to mention: it's 12:30PM, and the temps have landed on "400" in only five minutes. Very little flame (blue), but can see half of the box's floor with red coals. Air is about an inch out. So, in 2 hours and 20 minutes, it has dropped 150 degrees ... !

A M · Jan 29, 2015

begreen said:
We can't tell from a picture if the crack is spreading and/or getting worse. We can't tell how badly it's leaking air and we can't tell if something on the other side of this crack has broken free. Report it right away.

Allright. I'll call them later today.

saskwoodburner · Jan 29, 2015

A M said:
Do you mean by "over-gassing" - giving it too much air and not shutting the air down enough while its gone through its flames mode, and then starts to charcoal up?

You know when you hit the point where there's flame happening sort of "pre-char" and it's not going crazy. Then say you crack the door slightly wider, the whole split lights up like it's got hundreds of candles igniting from it. Then you open the door more, and the whole firebox is engulfed in raging flames. That's what I call roasting, off gassing, and over gassing. These are probably not legit terms

but at least I know what I mean. You may need to find the right balance of charring your wood, and not stalling the fire. If you don't char enough, the fire might not go and you start over, if you char too much, the wood releases too much good stuff right up the chimney.

I would defer to the experts here though, as I'm just one guy, with one stove, with possible ideas.

A M · Jan 29, 2015

saskwoodburner said:
You know when you hit the point where there's flame happening sort of "pre-char" and it's not going crazy. Then say you crack the door slightly wider, the whole split lights up like it's got hundreds of candles igniting from it. Then you open the door more, and the whole firebox is engulfed in raging flames. That's what I call roasting, off gassing, and over gassing. These are probably not legit terms but at least I know what I mean. You may need to find the right balance of charring your wood, and not stalling the fire. If you don't char enough, the fire might not go and you start over, if you char too much, the wood releases too much good stuff right up the chimney.

I would defer to the experts here though, as I'm just one guy, with one stove, with possible ideas.

I appreciate your explanation. It is 1:40PM and the stove's temp has reduced to "350." I re-loaded at 10:10AM today so this is the result in about 3 and 1/2 hours.

UPDATE for begreen and others interested: I was referred by NTool to call SBI and spoke with a very nice gentleman, namely, "Eric."

He has a Drolet Baltic, explained how the steel seams go together, how the inside of where the "seams" are located within the firebox are SEALED entirely, that even if extra air were able to get through the "crack" that once inside, it would have no where to go. He stated that IF there was air getting through the SEALED compartment, that the inside of the firebox would go crazy with its fire all the time. Then, there would be cause for alarm and SBI would gladly do something about it.

As a side note, which I shared with Eric since I had him on the phone ... sometimes the bypass damper DOES get stuck (I've never taken the handle off), and I can not with one hand close it up. I literally have to use both of my hands to push it forward, in order for it to be completely closed. This is certainly not a big deal to me. And, therefore never mentioned it to hearth. Scary the first time it happened but it has only happened a total of about 7 times since owning the stove.

He said I was welcome to email the photo I uploaded to the www.hearth.com website and even use the dollar bill as a reference point. Only the corners of a dollar bill will go into the partially open seam, not an entire dollar bill. Am glad that I got an answer He even agreed when I said how thoughtful that the Moderator, 'begreen' was to instruct me to contact them about what he saw in the photo. Anyway, I was very pleased with their level of customer service response. He's also a member of this website, as well he should be.

OK, wood detectives ... we are narrowing it down.

"I" may not be not putting in enough wood at the very earliest FILL-UP of the stove. Either at a "cold" start or even a "re-load" or it is plenty full and I am doing the primary air all wrong. Or, I'm putting in plenty of wood and well, ... what else?

Thanks to all for your input, as usual. Photos coming soon with a full load up.

Everhard · Jan 29, 2015

Hello A M and others. That if I'm not mistaken is not a crack - just like Eric said - it's a seam, my stove (Baltic - exact same stove as yours but with legs instead of a pedestal.) has the exact same seam on it. In fact if I remember right (I'm not home so can't look at it to confirm) there's more then one of those around the front perimeter if you look closely?
These stoves are not CAT stoves. The bypass serves a couple functions - one helps warm up the chimney quickly when lighting a cold stove. Secondly when reloading the stove it's a good idea to open the bypass as that stops any smoke from exiting out the door.
I leave the bypass open when warming up the stove till the chimney thermometer (which you don't have!) hits 550-600f. I think the stove top is usually around the 400-450f temp at that point.
Be aware if you're not careful a split can cause the by-pass to not close properly. I always check it as soon as I've loaded the wood in and if it hits I reposition the offending chunk accordingly.
Once the by-pass is closed I continue to monitor the stove top temps and once they hit 500 I pretty much close the door. The primary air damper remains wide open.
Now again because I have a chimney thermometer I monitor it and while the stove top continues to warm up with 600f+ being my goal, if the chimney temp hit's 800f+ then I close the primary air down completely till I see that gauge start to creep back down at which point I open up the primary air vent at least half way or more to get good flames going again in the firebox. I continue to do this till the stove top temp reads 600f+ at which point it's ready to cruise.
Now I close the primary air vent down but not completely. It stays open enough so that both gauges stabilize, usually the chimney temp holds at 600f and the stove top hangs out between 600-700f.

Early post you said you are filling it to the top of the bricks. That's no where near full if that's as full as you're going. Full is within an inch of the top.
These are large stoves (3.1cf firebox) they work better with a large load.
Describe what a medium and a large spilt is for you.
IE my opinion:
Medium: 2.5-4inch diameter log or split.
Large: 4inch plus. Typically 6-8inch is what I normally use.
Now when I load mine to get a long burn it'll have at least 3-6 large chunks in it with at least 3 chunks that are 6inches or larger in diameter. and then a few medium ones as well to help things along. As I almost never start from cold I usually have enough coals left that I don't need anything smaller then a medium chunk.
When my stove gets to the point that it's down to 400f or cooler there isn't anything but coals in there. That's usually after 10-12hrs of burning. If you still have unburnt wood my guess is that you've not got it hot enough and then shut down the primary air control too much to allow it to burn any more.
Hope this helps. Keep at it and fill that box up!!

E.

A M · Jan 29, 2015

Everhard said:
Hello A M and others. That if I'm not mistaken is not a crack - just like Eric said - it's a seam, my stove (Baltic - exact same stove as yours but with legs instead of a pedestal.) has the exact same seam on it. In fact if I remember right (I'm not home so can't look at it to confirm) there's more then one of those around the front perimeter if you look closely?
These stoves are not CAT stoves. The bypass serves a couple functions - one helps warm up the chimney quickly when lighting a cold stove. Secondly when reloading the stove it's a good idea to open the bypass as that stops any smoke from exiting out the door.
I leave the bypass open when warming up the stove till the chimney thermometer (which you don't have!) hits 550-600f. I think the stove top is usually around the 400-450f temp at that point.
Be aware if you're not careful a split can cause the by-pass to not close properly. I always check it as soon as I've loaded the wood in and if it hits I reposition the offending chunk accordingly.
Once the by-pass is closed I continue to monitor the stove top temps and once they hit 500 I pretty much close the door. The primary air damper remains wide open.
Now again because I have a chimney thermometer I monitor it and while the stove top continues to warm up with 600f+ being my goal, if the chimney temp hit's 800f+ then I close the primary air down completely till I see that gauge start to creep back down at which point I open up the primary air vent at least half way or more to get good flames going again in the firebox. I continue to do this till the stove top temp reads 600f+ at which point it's ready to cruise.
Now I close the primary air vent down but not completely. It stays open enough so that both gauges stabilize, usually the chimney temp holds at 600f and the stove top hangs out between 600-700f.

Early post you said you are filling it to the top of the bricks. That's no where near full if that's as full as you're going. Full is within an inch of the top.
These are large stoves (3.1cf firebox) they work better with a large load.
Describe what a medium and a large spilt is for you.
IE my opinion:
Medium: 2.5-4inch diameter log or split.
Large: 4inch plus. Typically 6-8inch is what I normally use.
Now when I load mine to get a long burn it'll have at least 3-6 large chunks in it with at least 3 chunks that are 6inches or larger in diameter. and then a few medium ones as well to help things along. As I almost never start from cold I usually have enough coals left that I don't need anything smaller then a medium chunk.
When my stove gets to the point that it's down to 400f or cooler there isn't anything but coals in there. That's usually after 10-12hrs of burning. If you still have unburnt wood my guess is that you've not got it hot enough and then shut down the primary air control too much to allow it to burn any more.
Hope this helps. Keep at it and fill that box up!!

E.

Hello, E. - thanks for another informative reply. OK, there is an obvious "seam" that looks a little open and slightly larger than a hairline crack. There is a barely noticeable one also on the right side; however, it is seamless and has NO opening whatsoever of where the two pieces were (welded?), or molded together. I presume you did see the photo I uploaded earlier today. It bothered me that it was there on the left side and did not match the seamless and not even noticeable seam line on the right. I will take Drolet / SBI (CSR) at his word, that there is nothing wrong, and there's no extra air getting into or leaving my stove, as a result of its visible metal flaw.

The OM says NOT to place wood inside of the firebox when it exceeds the height of the six-inch (?) brick. I've read (recently) about a man who has the exact same stove and he placed brick all the way around the top of these bricks SO THAT he could add more wood when he starts a fire. I've been tempted to do just this since reading his post, but have not gone as far as actually getting the extra brick for this very venture. I believe he said that nothing is holding the brick in place except each brick-piece next to one another are supporting each other. So, E., I know your stove is quite similar to mine, but, doesn't your OM also tell you not to have the wood taller than the height of the encompassing box's vertically placed brick?

Medium splits to me means between 4 to 5 inches wide. Large splits are anything over 5 inches. You are so fortunate to have 10 to 12 hours of burn/heat. I could never see that in this stove, but, then again, I am the one who also believed that the stove could never do better than 400 degrees, either.

Anyway, thanks for the above!

begreen · Jan 29, 2015

You can load the stove up a bit over the bricks. Keep it about 2" below the secondary tubes and it should be fine.

BobUrban · Jan 30, 2015

when you have it going strong hold your lighter flame up to the crack and if the flame gets pulled toward the stove air is being sucked in - that will verify if this is an issue or not.

A M · Jan 30, 2015

begreen said:
You can load the stove up a bit over the bricks. Keep it about 2" below the secondary tubes and it should be fine.

Begreen ... thanks for all of your help. Here is "my" best estimation of my fully loaded Drolet wood stove. I haven't had the best time with getting the stove started tonight. And, it nearly made it to 450, but, right now it is at 340 degrees and the time is 7:40PM.

I did not burn the stove all day. Last night was my last fire until I started from a cold box at 5:10PM this evening. I cleaned the box out and made sure to leave about half an inch of cool ash in the box. I used (2) Safe-Lite fire starters directly under the bottom middle log on its left and right side and placed this log there because I thought it would be the fastest burning log to get the other logs to start burning, too.

I used 5 splits total. 3 were medium, 1 is not a split but a huge piece of wood (on the left), and 1 smaller split. I did not use kindling until half an hour after starting because I thought that the 2 one-inch or so pieces of wood I had around would start everything going. They did not and so I then added two kiln-dried pieces of kindling from a package. All of the wood I tested before it went in and they were under 20%. I rejected one that had 25% and did not put it in the box.

The bypass damper and primary air control were both fully OPEN when I started it at 5:10PM. It took until 6:05PM to reach 350. It hit 400 at 6:12PM and almost made it to 450 at 6:30PM. Slowly, it went down from there. As I said, it is now at 340 and it has been about 2 and 1/2 hours since I began.

The slow start was probably my fault and I should have put in the 2 pieces of kindling along with the big pieces when I began. However, I was surprised that it did not take off faster than it did. If the wood is under 20% moisture content, why in the world would it not go higher than 450, as it did a few days ago? Maybe because I am gong from a cold start. Anyway, let me know what you think.

A M · Jan 30, 2015

BobUrban said:
when you have it going strong hold your lighter flame up to the crack and if the flame gets pulled toward the stove air is being sucked in - that will verify if this is an issue or not.

Good idea, BU. I just sent begreen a photo of my estimation of the stove fully loaded before I lit it. It would only go up to nearly 450 and now it is at 340, so honestly, I am not sure what is up with it tonight. It's been unused today and therefore, the box was cold, but I am surprised the temp did not keep rising this evening when I first started it.

begreen · Jan 30, 2015

A M said:
Begreen ... thanks for all of your help. Here is "my" best estimation of my fully loaded Drolet wood stove. I haven't had the best time with getting the stove started tonight. And, it nearly made it to 450, but, right now it is at 340 degrees and the time is 7:40PM.

The picture is very helpful. Based on it I would say you are loading it at about ~75% capacity. Part of this is because there are a lot of odd shaped pieces. Some narrow and flat, some squarish, some round, etc.. I have the same issue with the wood I'm currently burning. Try to pack in more large pieces with the smaller stuff stuck in between. So for this load, the medium flat piece on the lower right I would put on the upper left. In its place I would place a bigger squarer split with another on top.You're getting there an steadily improving. A lot now will just take practice.

A M · Jan 30, 2015

begreen said:
The picture is very helpful. Based on it I would say you are loading it at about ~75% capacity. Part of this is because there are a lot of odd shaped pieces. Some narrow and flat, some squarish, some round, etc.. I have the same issue with the wood I'm currently burning. Try to pack in more large pieces with the smaller stuff stuck in between. So for this load, the medium flat piece on the lower right I would put on the upper left. In its place I would place a bigger squarer split with another on top.You're getting there an steadily improving. A lot now will just take practice.

Thank you. That's helpful to know.

NOW, I want to say that since it is cold in this living room and the evening is soon to disappear, I thought "OK, this is silly. I'm not putting up with this cold atmosphere," so, I placed in one big (odd) shaped piece of wood right in the middle (of where the first light-weighted split had burned). I pulled out the air all the way. I do need to mention here also that two of the wood pieces from the 5:10PM start did not fully burn, so they are definitely burning now. The temp has risen to 440 and it is 8:35PM. I've just closed the air a little bit. The water in the lattice bowl is sizzling and has been for about .15 minutes. This is the first time I've heard that sound all evening.

Anyway, I could be adding a little more wood when I load, then. OK. I will remember that. I did not go and pick up the rest of that wood (odd shaped and regular splits) in the other town. I was busy with other things so next week it will be. I checked with the guy to make sure and he said that this would be fine. Thanks, again.

begreen · Jan 30, 2015

This is what a fully packed stove looks like:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lets-see-your-cold-weather-loads-america.140264/#post-1886256

A M · Jan 30, 2015

begreen said:
This is what a fully packed stove looks like:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lets-see-your-cold-weather-loads-america.140264/#post-1886256

That photo shows that there was barely room enough for a twig. Honestly, I am surprised that you can have wood so close or (it looks like) touching the steel of the secondary housing. Sure, I realize it is steel and can stand high temps from the gases of wood burning. I appreciate reading that post. Thank you!

begreen · Jan 31, 2015

A M said:
That photo shows that there was barely room enough for a twig. Honestly, I am surprised that you can have wood so close or (it looks like) touching the steel of the secondary housing. Sure, I realize it is steel and can stand high temps from the gases of wood burning. I appreciate reading that post. Thank you!

Here is another fully loaded stove picture:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/its-official.140288/#post-1886835

Everhard · Jan 31, 2015

A M I'm not going to be home for a while, or I'd take a picture of my stove once I've loaded it. But to answer your question I looked at the manual online just now - yes it says not higher then the level of the firebricks. Ooops. I guess I'm in violation of that every single time I've used the stove. Hmmm maybe I'll go get some more firebricks to line it a bit higher! Lol. Looking at the photo's of loaded stoves as shown in the links supplied above, that's how mine gets loaded. But while I do go above the firebricks I never ever put wood on the top edge of the firebricks.
Btw - that picture of your stove, the one larger chunk - I usually put in at least 4 that size and a number of medium sized ones. (assuming a warm reload.) When I start it from cold I'll put in a large chunk on both sides with the kindling between them, and then put some medium to large chunks on top of all of that. Once the kindling is lit it then gets the rest of it going with ease. I don't use any kind of fire starter things, just finely chopped kindling and newspaper. I also save birch bark as it works great to get things going in a hurry.
Please note that our stoves are not just similar, they are exactly the same. (The only difference is that mine has 4 legs, yours sits on a pedestal.)
When I'm back home I'll take photos of the fire from loaded to lit to the stages as it warms up to when it's cruising. Mine lights up and gets going so easily I really can't understand why you should have such a difficult time - well I can only come up with 2 reasons:
1: You're shutting down the air supply too soon and not letting the stove get up to temp first.
2: You've got a problem with the design of your venting/chimney that is not giving the stove a sufficient draft to get It going well.

I'll also take pic's of the front of my stove so you can see if the seams are the same as what yours are. But it won't be for a week and a half.

E.

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