Considering pellet stove for small house

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jimmiller2

Member
Dec 30, 2008
59
Tennessee
I am in the middle of a 1200 sq foot house project, partially earth sheltered, all concrete block and brick with ten foot ceilings and roof trusses. It will be super insulated using recycled polyiso roof material. Walls will be R 35 and ceiling R 60. The house is in southern Tennessee near Alabama border. I have a center of house four by six foot closet that was designed to have a propane fireplace but am now considering a small pellet stove in front of a fake fireplace. The main heat system will be a 1 1/2 ton heat pump. I will try to post a photo. I don't know much about pellet stoves at this point. My two questions are about what would be a good stove for this small house and if it needs a 3 inch flue pipe are these pipes double walled/insulated like a regular wood stove. What would the OD dimension be for a 3 inch ID pipe? Also please explain the outside air options for pellet stoves. I can't upload a photo.

Thanks
JM
 
For a small super-insulated home in the South, are you sure you even need a pellet stove for anything more than aesthetics?
 
OD on 3" is about 4", but with that much chimney run, you may want 4"ID which will be ablout 5" OD. Then you need to look at specs for clearances around that pipe, etc. What was your primary reason(s) for going from propane to pellet?
 
Jim,

Yes pellet stove pipe is double walled. On 3" pipe Simpson Duravent specifically the ID is 2 5/8" to 2 3/4" and the OD you add an inch which puts it at a 3 3/4" OD. As Fsappo states about 4" OD. This is not dead nuts but we will not get into 1/16" or 32's. For the 4" pipe add an inch to ID and OD.

I think what you are doing a pellet stove would work well sized accordingly. JMHO. I assume this earth sheltered home is facing south for the winter sun? If not then you are still ahead of the game. Get some pics up! I am very interested and sounds like some house tinkering stuff and ideas I like to do. Explain the layout some more. All open with a few exceptions. Details?

I'd like to see some pics or drawings as would others here. What kind of thermal mass are you able to work with? Concrete floor? Is it covered on the back and sides? Any walls above grade there? Is the front or one wall completely exposed?
 
For a small super-insulated home in the South, are you sure you even need a pellet stove for anything more than aesthetics?
It's not as warm and far south as you might think. Still need to heat in this area.
 
I think if you did the math..figured out how many lbs of pellets x $ per lb and compared to gallons of LP x $ per gallon, you may find out that using pellets may save you $100 per year, $1000 someplace in between. Now what you give up going from LP to Pellet Is ambiance and in many cases resale value of the home. An LP fireplace will give you heat when you lose power, without inverters, generators, etc. A pellet stove you are going to be tinkering with quite often, regardless of the guy who is going to post after me saying he only tinkers 2 times a year. Pellet stoves are noisier, dustier and you need to be smart about purchasing the fuel.

This is not to talk someone out of burning pellets, its just points out that the math should be done. Quality of life and your time has value, unless you consider hauling/loading fuel and doing weekly monthly cleanings recreation (no sarcasm, some folks including myself do enjoy some tinkering)

So apply values to all that. Easy math, don't nerd out on it unless, again, you enjoy that kind of thing.

As an example, using 2 tons of pellets gives you about 26,000,000 btus net. At $250 per ton. so $500 bucks for that energy
At 82% eff in a gas direct vent fireplace, you would need about 340 gallons of LP. With that kind of usage, lets say $3.00 per gallon for about $1000

So, to save $500 per year, you add the labor/tasks described above and lose some ambiance, no electricity needed and maybe some resale.

Then figure out if its worth it.
 
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There are pipe and set ups where you can take care of the venting and OAK (Outside Air Kit) all in one shot. Costs a bit more and not totally necessary to go that route depending. All said and done it is easier and probably won't kill the budget but it is all in what time you have and want to deal with. I'd run an OAK in your situation and do so here but pellet stoves will run without one. Just not as efficiently. It's all about air exchange rates. Worth the extra money and expense. Some will argue otherwise but I know the sky is indeed blue.
 
In that type of house and set up the pellet stove could also easily become "primary" heat with the heat pump rarely used. I am more interested in the house concept than how he is going to heat it. LOL! Either way he'll get off easy. Heat pump covers the small AC needs during the summer too and offers an central system. Running a similar set up here. Propane costs money as does pellets and the stuff that comes with pellet stove heat. Many variables to consider. Not necessarily pushing pellets here. He is asking for the pros and cons and obviously has done some thinking already.
 
I live in West Ga. around I-20 and on the Al. line. I am using an Englander 25-PVDC to heat my downstairs which is about 1450 sq. ft. This heater warms this space with no problem and I burned 40 bags last month so Even with LP prices being as low as they are now It still cost me less to burn pellets than to run gas wall mounts.
 
Pellets should almost always be less. Its just for the OP to understand how much less and decide himself if its worth it.
 
I'm with Chken.....with a super insulated place like that i'd skip all the work of cleaning and feeding, and insurance for a combustion device in the house (extra $100/year here) ....Honestly I think your heat pump is the answer (A/C too) ...you can get a pretty good looking electric fireplace these days..also it would be very hard to run the pellet stove low enough not to drive you out of the house. I assume your Heat Pump is the modern inverter type which are just as efficient at low load as high load.....1.5 tons is about 18,000 btu....with some thermal mass in the floors you'll never get cold....my opinion anyways!!
 
I'm with Chken.....with a super insulated place like that i'd skip all the work of cleaning and feeding, and insurance for a combustion device in the house (extra $100/year here) ....Honestly I think your heat pump is the answer (A/C too) ...you can get a pretty good looking electric fireplace these days..also it would be very hard to run the pellet stove low enough not to drive you out of the house. I assume your Heat Pump is the modern inverter type which are just as efficient at low load as high load.....1.5 tons is about 18,000 btu....with some thermal mass in the floors you'll never get cold....my opinion anyways!!



Thanks to all for the replies. I really haven't thought this thru and may just stick with the propane. The fact that I can run without power could be a big plus as a few years ago we were out of power for a week due to ice storm. I would like to post some pics and will try again. I am using a iPad mini and have posted easily on other sites. If the photos don't work please advise on what I need to do. Also if I interested go to DIYchatroom.com and look under the project photo section at top of forum and my thread is "Partial earth sheltered home"
It seems I can load one photo at a time.
Thanks
JM
 

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Thanks to all for the replies. I really haven't thought this thru and may just stick with the propane. The fact that I can run without power could be a big plus as a few years ago we were out of power for a week due to ice storm. I would like to post some pics and will try again. I am using a iPad mini and have posted easily on other sites. If the photos don't work please advise on what I need to do. Also if I interested go to DIYchatroom.com and look under the project photo section at top of forum and my thread is "Partial earth sheltered home"
It seems I can load one photo at a time.
Thanks
JM


Here is a photo of the area I am building the house. It's in Moore county 10 miles from Lynchburg, TN.
The house is built like a hardened bunker. At the max point about five feet below grade, All block is filled with rebar and concrete. All interior framing is non structural. I put the side walls with two fours flat and back wall with them normal because much wiring will be here. I was able to buy a large quantity of 2 1/2 and 1 1/2 inch polyiso from commercial roofers for pennies on the dollar. Coupled with some blue XPS to flush out the needed dimensions I will have as previously mentioned R35 in walls and R 60 in ceiling. I took this aerial shot. I have only a limited lake view but otherwise a nice lot. Most of the water front lots are extremely steep and expensive to buy and to build on.

Thanks
JM
 

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Out of curiosity what do you pay for electricity? TVA??
 
I just checked our latest bill. 771KW Hr at $91.20 is about 11.8 cents. We do have TVA. How does that compare to other areas?

We pay around 15 cents kw/hr. You may consider a mini split heat pump somewhere in your heating design. It probably would work all year at your location even on the coldest days. Of course its nice to have a flame to look at.

Any where you can buy pellets? Might want to look into that before doing much more research on stoves.
 
We pay around 15 cents kw/hr. You may consider a mini split heat pump somewhere in your heating design. It probably would work all year at your location even on the coldest days. Of course its nice to have a flame to look at.

Any where you can buy pellets? Might want to look into that before doing much more research on stoves.


I considered that but I can buy a regular 1 1/2 T heat pump thru my neighbor wholesale as he has an account with local supply house. I have designed what I hope will be a very simple and unique system. I will be using exposed spiral duct
And seven of the eight take offs will come directly off the main duct by register vents. The whole system will be a simple Tee with a 12 inch teeing off into two equal length 10 inch branches. With the ten foot ceilings I will have plenty of room and no need for duct insulation or heat loss worries.
 
Jim,

Yes pellet stove pipe is double walled. On 3" pipe Simpson Duravent specifically the ID is 2 5/8" to 2 3/4" and the OD you add an inch which puts it at a 3 3/4" OD. As Fsappo states about 4" OD. This is not dead nuts but we will not get into 1/16" or 32's. For the 4" pipe add an inch to ID and OD.

I think what you are doing a pellet stove would work well sized accordingly. JMHO. I assume this earth sheltered home is facing south for the winter sun? If not then you are still ahead of the game. Get some pics up! I am very interested and sounds like some house tinkering stuff and ideas I like to do. Explain the layout some more. All open with a few exceptions. Details?

I'd like to see some pics or drawings as would others here. What kind of thermal mass are you able to work with? Concrete floor? Is it covered on the back and sides? Any walls above grade there? Is the front or one wall completely exposed?

Bags
I was wondering what part of Kentucky you were from. I used to live near London (East Bernstadt). I will
Try to post a picture of the floor plan of the house I am building. It's a two bedroom with one bath. It is facing the water which is East. The front wall is two by six and the rest block and brick.

Thanks
JM
 

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Don't understand the fake fireplace? If you do go pellets a freestanding will give you real ambiance and the FP is unnecessary. Besides, a well designed and appointed stove will look better.
 
Don't understand the fake fireplace? If you do go pellets a freestanding will give you real ambiance and the FP is unnecessary. Besides, a well designed and appointed stove will look better.

The framing is for a Empire 36 inch propane fireplace. The fake reference is if I decided on a pellet stove instead of the propane fireplace I still wanted the mantel and fireplace look which would be a metal mesh cover with the flue from stove going thru and then up to roof. The empire is very shallow front to back, around 18 inches is why I chose it to make the closet bigger and keep more floor space. What branch did you fly F4's in? As a former fighter jock you may like the attached photo of my Vans RV3. I cruise 160mph on 108 HP. I am retired Navy myself. I was a dentist (Capt) but would have much preferred flying.
 

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London is south of me almost 2 hours. I am 30 miles southwest of Cincinnati across from Rising Sun, Indiana in the SW corner of Boone County. The Cincinnati Intl. Airport is in Boone Co., KY. Which lake or water is your place facing? My house faces primarily east and slightly south.

F4 was a Marine. There are many vets bopping around here. He can give you details.
 
London is south of me almost 2 hours. I am 30 miles southwest of Cincinnati across from Rising Sun, Indiana in the SW corner of Boone County. The Cincinnati Intl. Airport is in Boone Co., KY. Which lake or water is your place facing? My house faces primarily east and slightly south.

F4 was a Marine. There are many vets bopping around here. He can give you details.

Bags
Did you see the private message I sent-not sure if it went thru. Now I know why I have heard of Rabbit Hash. I lived for
Many years practically next door in Vevay Indiana. Went to high school there have family still there. I fly up Vevay very often almost weekly when my mother was in nursing home. I would land at Lamb or Madison.
My lot where I am building is on Tim's Ford lake at the Ridgeville development which is about four miles from Tims
Ford state park. The closest town is Lynchburg. Tims Ford lake is over 11,000 acres and has borders in three counties.
 
No Jim. Didn't see a recent PM. My grandmother is originally from Vevay. I have a great Aunt in Madison also. I go thru both towns going to a job site I am working on and have for several years. Some of your family might know some of mine. Grandma's maiden name was Hambrick.

From Vevay you take Rt. 56 east along the river and can cross the dam into Warsaw, KY and head up Rt. 42 along the river and Rabbit Hash is not far. I can be in Vevay in 55 minutes or so. Sometimes I go thru Carrollton, KY into Milton and cross the bride into Madison. They just did a new bridge there. I know where Lamb is also and go thru there. The place I go is in Austin, IN.

Nice area BTW. I have not been to that lake but I have been to Norris numerous times.
 
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No Jim. Didn't see a recent PM. My grandmother is originally from Vevay. I have a great Aunt in Madison also. I go thru both towns going to a job site I am working on and have for several years. Some of your family might know some of mine. Grandma's maiden name was Hambrick.

From Vevay you take Rt. 56 east along the river and can cross the dam into Warsaw, KY and head up Rt. 42 along the river and Rabbit Hash is not far. I can be in Vevay in 55 minutes or so. Sometimes I go thru Carrollton, KY into Milton and cross the bride into Madison. They just did a new bridge there. I know where Lamb is also and go thru there. The place I go is in Austin, IN.

Nice area BTW. I have not been to that lake but I have been to Norris numerous times.

I know a lot of hambricks in area. I can't remember first names at the moment. I haven't lived there since I left after high
School but go there a lot. I am a member of the Vevay American Legion and most of my high school classmates are in
The area. We moved to the area in 1961 in Florence first then moved to Markland. I will try to send the PM message
Again.
 
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