Opening the stove's door produces odd sound coming from the pipe ...

begreen said:

Here is another fully loaded stove picture:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/its-official.140288/#post-1886835

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Thanks for another post showing a "full" load of wood. That guy was pretty happy with his new stove. After he learned to get the temps above 300. It really is a learning curve.

Everhard said:

A M I'm not going to be home for a while, or I'd take a picture of my stove once I've loaded it. But to answer your question I looked at the manual online just now - yes it says not higher then the level of the firebricks. Ooops. I guess I'm in violation of that every single time I've used the stove. Hmmm maybe I'll go get some more firebricks to line it a bit higher! Lol. Looking at the photo's of loaded stoves as shown in the links supplied above, that's how mine gets loaded. But while I do go above the firebricks I never ever put wood on the top edge of the firebricks.
Btw - that picture of your stove, the one larger chunk - I usually put in at least 4 that size and a number of medium sized ones. (assuming a warm reload.) When I start it from cold I'll put in a large chunk on both sides with the kindling between them, and then put some medium to large chunks on top of all of that. Once the kindling is lit it then gets the rest of it going with ease. I don't use any kind of fire starter things, just finely chopped kindling and newspaper. I also save birch bark as it works great to get things going in a hurry.
Please note that our stoves are not just similar, they are exactly the same. (The only difference is that mine has 4 legs, yours sits on a pedestal.)
When I'm back home I'll take photos of the fire from loaded to lit to the stages as it warms up to when it's cruising. Mine lights up and gets going so easily I really can't understand why you should have such a difficult time - well I can only come up with 2 reasons:
1: You're shutting down the air supply too soon and not letting the stove get up to temp first.
2: You've got a problem with the design of your venting/chimney that is not giving the stove a sufficient draft to get It going well.

I'll also take pic's of the front of my stove so you can see if the seams are the same as what yours are. But it won't be for a week and a half.

E.

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E., ... thank you for your email. I do not know what to say or how to answer you regarding the two reasons you think MIGHT be the reason for a) getting the temps initially up and then, b) if the temps do go up, they do not seem to stay there for hours as your stove does, for example, and probably thousands of other people.

Here's what's on my mind right now ... and could I have a defective thermometer? Here's why I ask.

Last night I did get the stove up to 600. In less than a hour it went down to 425. It did stay there for awhile, but it occurred to me that I am basing these heat fluctuations only on this one little thermometer and what it is reading. What if this little device is entirely inaccurate? Is that possible? It is for a single wall pipe and I have double, as I've mentioned before, but I only use it on top of the stove, again, as I have mentioned before. But, what if the darn thing is just plain wrong?

Tonight, minutes ago, - and I am not excited but should have been - the stove got up to 700. This is a FIRST. And, my thought was "OMG, it broke a record." When I saw that reading and the flames still going wildly, I pushed in the air, only keeping it open about 1/4 of the way. Note that it is extremely windy tonight and there has been rain and some sleet and snow. It is very cold out and is suppose to drop to 15 or 16.

NOW, would you like to know what temp this thermometer is reading now, .25 minutes after it hit 700?

The red marker is now on 400.

I kid you not.

Without fail, this stove (no matter how high a temp it reaches), begins to go down. And, we're only talking a mere .25 minutes. How "normal" is that? for a wood stove?

Your theory about draft ... here's a question for you, just out of curiosity. When the bypass damper is fully open along with the air control AND the door is slightly open, shouldn't there be no smoke coming out of the stove once I open it up and keep the door open for five to ten seconds, if the bypass is doing its job?

At this point, I am grateful for heat from this stove even at 400, but, am I disappointed it does not maintain the higher heat temps it will eventually reach. THAT would make the struggle with the wood (if I happen to be having not-so-great wood that particular day within the box), so worth it.

As a side-note, I will happily tell you that my electric bill from 12/17/14 through 1/17/15 was a total of $32.00. One month prior to this it was $50.00 (right after getting the stove), and one month prior to that, it was $70.00, SO, had I been using my electric space heaters for December and January, I can assure you that I would be spending over $100.00 for each of these months!

Grisu said:

Where was the air when the stove hit 700 F? If you fuel your fire with lots of air the stove will of course get hot. Once you push the air in too much (especially with not so dry wood) and the secondaries cannot be sustained then your temps will drop. After closing the air, did you have plenty of coals that were just glowing with very little flames?

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The air was all the way OPEN when it hit 700. There was still lots of flame activity when it hit that temp. There were red coals but flames, too, so I thought I did not want this temp to keep going higher (I don't know if it would have, but it might have), so, that's when I thought I'd better close the air except for about 1/4" open. Since I wrote my post (above), I opened the air a bit more. There are red coals but flames, also.

However, what I wrote above regarding the 400 temp, has lowered to 350. Even with the air open more right now and for the last .15 minutes (?), it is keeping at 350.

Don't know if the very active winds have ANYTHING to do with why it rose to 700 this time. I don't know. It was as surprising to me as when it most recently hit 600 for the 2nd time and that occurred about 2 weeks ago by now.

Thank you for your posting reply, Grisu.

begreen said:

Why would you have the air all the way open, with the fire burning intensely, especially with strong winds? It sounds like you are not closing the air down soon enough. That would explain the short burn.

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In tonight's case, I was not giving it my full attention and I was doing something in the kitchen and when I went back to look at the thermometer I saw that it was on 700. I did not want to inch the air down by 1/2" or 1/4" increments because it was so high. Now, maybe there was absolutely no danger of going too high, but since it had never reached this temp before, I was a little worried and decided it was best to barely give it any air at that stage.

Right now I've put in 3 odd shaped pieces of wood with the air out about two inches. They are burning but the temps are staying at 350. That is better than a stone cold house with no warmth. I guess the wood is not dry enough for the temps to climb back up to even approaching what it did earlier.

Thanks everyone ... however, EVEN loading the stove full up is not keeping the temps high. Yes, I've read through the post from the beginning. There's no explanation for it and just a very few possibilities that could be the culprit.

FionaD said:

.... But A.M, possible wood MC aside for the moment.... you're once again doing exactly what several people here have said not to do - you are not loading up a full load and burning to the end of a cycle, instead you are adding a little wood in mid-cycle. Why would you expect temps to get high if you load three splits and only partially open up the air?

I think it might be useful to go right back to the start of this thread and take notes, compiling all the info you have been given. It might be, because there are so many words here now, that you are forgetting much of what people have already advised and explained to you. I can't help but notice that much of what has been said here has been repeated several times. If you compile everything you have been told into one 'bespoke, AM user-manual", I'm sure it will be useful.. otherwise I think you are walking and talking in circles rather than burning In cycles

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Yes, Fiona, when the temps get down to this range (300 to 350), I will place some more wood in. I prefer not to wait until it is around 300. Yes, I have been filling the stove up and you may have seen my recent photo of what I believed was a full stove. begreen said it was more like 75%.

Now, going on the premise that we all understand what a full load of wood is, ... and, I am now able to reach higher temps, the problem which is on-going is that these wonderful high temps (except for the 700 the other evening), are not STAYING or MAINTAINING themselves.

E. offers great advise; however, I am not experiencing the long burns that his Astral achieves. Both made by Drolet (SBI).

It's OK. Whether the thermometer is A-OK and working fine (he's got the same exact one), and the wood is passable, nothing changes the fact that in the end, the 500 to 625 temps do not stay there more than an hour and a half.

Perhaps it is a "draft" problem. We'll never really know for sure.

Everhard said:

AM I'm using the same thermometer on my stove top, namely one meant for single walled stove pipe.

Where have you placed it? If you've got it off to one corner that could be the issue.

Mine is place left of the stove pipe a couple inches away and a couple inches forward.

If you've got yours near an edge then move it.

Take photos of your stove setup and post them up. Is it all 6" from top of stove to the very top of the chimney? How many bends? How many horizontal sections and how long are they. (If there are any?)

The only time my stove smokes at all is when it and the chimney are bone cold, but that isn't surprising as there's no draft at that point. As soon as the draft is going I get no smoke when I open the door. (assuming I open up the by-pass first.) If yours smokes that points to a not so good draft situation.

Oh and last question where in the house is this stove? Basement, first floor, etc.

E.

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E., the thermometer is always in the upper right hand side of the top of the stove, about eight inches up. Maybe two or three inches below the front base of the double-wall pipe. It's a straight up DW pipe that's a total of 8 feet from the stove's bottom pedestal. Probably five feet on the roof (three foot triple wall extension last December), and an OAK added, too.

Sometimes there is smoke from the wood coming up. I asked you about it because at times, with the bypass open, it is doing nothing to have the air going up toward the chimney and yep, there will be smoke coming right out of the firebox. That's why I asked you about it, ... if you were experiencing the same thing at all.

The stove is in the living room, not in a corner spot. An old hole had been covered up at the ceiling and previous occupants had had a stove there. Prior to that, there is the remains of an old cement real-brick chimney, but was torn down. I don't know which one came last that they utilized, not that it matters.

It was suggested a long awhile ago that I should try taking off the OAK from the back of the stove to see if this would make a difference or not.

I realize that what you and I experience with our (similar modeled) stoves' as far as high temps for long durations is NEARLY a day and night difference. Even if it can not be solved here, I just want you to know that I really do appreciate the input I've been given!

FionaD said:

Hi AM


I think we may be at slight cross-purposes here... Of course you can load up when you get to 350 stove top temps. What I responded to was that you said-

I was merely speculating that perhaps you were not able to get the temps above 350 that time becuase you had not added a full load of wood that time... And that you have not fully opened the air that time.

This is what I meant when I said I think we're talking round in circles a bit.

As I said a few posts back. I still think you would benefit from having someone who knows his stuff sit beside you and your stove and respond to each of your questions and problems... I guess this forum is the next best thing, but wouldn't we all prefer to be able to ship some of these folk into our living rooms if we could? Surely there must be some competent chimney sweep or stove fitter who would come out to check over your stove and explain it all to you for a small fee....

All the best,

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No worries, Fi. Yes, I did mean from a full load.

By regularly putting in the "Creosote Destroyer" powder since this post began, the sound has not been heard for about three days. I realize I should still the pipe cleaned, but I do feel much better than when I officially found out that it was indeed the explicit sound of creosote.

I will, however, look further into having a wood/stove professional come to the house and check out everything.

Many thanks for your suggestions along the Post's way.

It's all good in the long run, life and wood burning, in general!!

:}

slayer7 said:

It took me a couple of days to fully read and digest what's going on in this situation but here's my .02 for what it's worth and some random thoughts that might help out...

Maybe an infrared thermometer might be useful in getting some more accurate temperatures of the stove top at various phases of the burn cycle. Here's an average one that isn't too expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Digital-Infrared-Thermometer-1076°F/dp/B00K5QVBCU/ref=pd_cp_hi_1

This might give you a truer picture on stove temps since there is some speculation in your thermometer's performance and suitability to this application.

It took awhile but I think you finally got enough info on how to fully load the stove...previously it appeared you were not putting enough wood in. Everyone has given good advice about that and maintaining a proper burn cycle where you fully load the stove and then don't open it until there's only some coals left (usually 6-10 hours later) to start another burn cycle. It seems like you are trying to implement these changes but are not getting very good burn times, hence have returned to adding more wood after a few hours. This situation might be a result of what seems like poorly seasoned wood which I think was also mentioned. Additionally, I saw in a few places where you said something like "I finally saw some secondaries" and "was able to cut the air almost down to 1/4". That might be another part of the problematic burn times...I don't think you are ever cutting down the air enough (all the way) for the stove to be burning on just secondaries which maintains the high temperature and extends the burn times. The fact that you have creosote build-up in your liner, it takes a long time to get the stove up to temp, you need a lot of air to keep the fire going and your useful burn cycle is too short all point to sub-par wood (possibly poor draft). Unless you tried this already, I believe somebody mentioned getting a load of kiln-dried or store-packaged wood or even biobricks so you can go through the process of trying to run the stove with known dry fuel. That way you can determine once and for all if your stove can maintain temperature and produce a normal burn cycle that should last longer than an hour or two.

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Thank you, Slayer7, for your valued input ... and, I am still considering getting an infrared therm. I do have a positive update to share:

Today, I set out to find a new wood seller. I was seeking BETTER wood than what I had last bought. So, I took my MM with me, always asking permission of course, before I probed the two sellers wood. PRIOR to getting more wood, I was going to take off the OAK to see if this would make a difference. I ended up taking the metal band that secures the hosed insulation to the metal add-on for the air to get into the stove from outside. I got a bit nervous about such a bold move and put it back onto the back of the stove, without the tight fitting metal clamp.

I even moved the darn thermometer to the left of the stove's surface, as "E." had mentioned was where he placed his. Mine was always on the right. I know. I know. Silliness, like THAT'S gonna make a difference, right?

Anyway, the wood I selected was cut smaller than the stuff I got before and I told both of the gentlemen that I simply wanted the DRYEST wood possible. So, the man whose wood I bought from does seem to have made a very nice difference. I checked about 15 random pieces and they were all ranging between 10% and 20%, but, many between 10 and 16% MC.

The stove still had one old - from this morning - piece of burnt wood in it. In fact, it was the very last piece of the former rick I had gotten a little over a month ago? This morning, the stove's temp never reached beyond 325. I was not happy with this and knew I had to find some new wood, anyway, right away. I had this seller's "card," but I just couldn't call him simply because I didn't want half of another rick that would produce what I just encountered.

I started burning the new wood about 2:30PM. I left the OLD piece of wood going E/W, placed a new piece in front of it and built the rest of the new wood up going N/S. I used two Safe-Lites and one Kiln-Dried piece of Kindling. Eventually, it got up to 650 and I started shutting it down at 1/4 increments. I ended up playing around with the air when it reduced to 475.

Here's the exciting (to me) part: I opened the air up a bit more and within a few minutes INSTEAD of it continuing to go down - as is the normal history of this stove since it arrived - the thermometer crept up to 525.

Granted, it was the first burn with today's new wood (it's seasoned Oak, white and a little red), cut much smaller (15 and 16 inches, he said), than the other stuff I had. It's 6:15PM right now. The wood pieces are turning into ash logs and there's plenty of red in the box. The door has not been opened since 2:30PM and the stove temp is now at 425. No, it is still not at 525, but, it did stay at 525 for quite some time. Because the wood is now turning to ash, I am waiting until the temps drop to say, 325, before I will add some more of the new wood.

Now, this might not sound like much to someone else who is use to 9 or 10 hour burns, but, for me and what I've experienced; especially with a lot of bad wood I've encountered on and off since November, 2014.

I think it will go another hour, maybe 2 more at the most. The stove was almost full, but, I think I can fit maybe 3 more pieces the next time.