Made a wood seller mad today

I think the wood sellers still have the lead on the who's annoyed who score. Ask him if he's willing to prove his wood is <20% (he won't, it isn't).

Kinda tough time of year to buy dry wood.

i had a similar experience with a local seller, i got this response " what do you want, some kind of suuuperwood?" (add some redneck accent to it)

i was as polite as possible, but he wasnt happy.

had another experience. guy brought wood, said it was "seasoned". i told him it better not be fresh cut. and that i would test it. he showed up and went to dump- i said- whoa! then grabbed a split and resplit, took the mm out of my pocket and stuck it in. 22%. i said ok, dump it. he was simply facinated by my mm. he had no idea what it was and had never seen one before. i stacked the wood and came up 1/4 cord short. a dozen calls later and i got my 1/4 cord. but it was green......

I guess I'm looking at things differently . . . a bit of rain or snow on the wood wouldn't bother me if that's what the guy considers "wet" wood . . . rather I would want to either know a) how long the wood was cut, split and stacked (if it was stacked) or (even better) what the moisture content was on some randomly chosen, fresh split wood faces.

To me "dry" and "seasoned" can be the same . . . or different . . . thing . . . depends on the person and their frame of mind.

I can live with wood that is wet or covered in snow, but has the appropriate moisture content for burning . . . a day or so inside near the woodstove and the next batch of wood is ready to go. However, dry wood that doesn't have a low enough moisture content -- that would be a non-starter for me.

I would assume that all delivered split wood is unseasoned and be happy with a honest quantity and consistently sized splits.

i will add, "seasoned" is not a word.

Ugh, it frustrates me that someone would be in the "wood business" and really have no clue what good wood is. I know space is limited for some guys but seriously, its like trying to sell cars and not know that they run on gas or diesel. I know a guy that sells firewood, he has actually sold a few cords to a couple of my friends, well he gets his logs through the summer then starts splitting them in September to be sold in November and he calls it seasoned wood. I ask my one friend how can he be so stupid to buy wood from the guy mentioned above.. he said I don't know, I just figured it was seasoned because he said the logs have been down since hurricane Sandy.. I said simply oh well, you deserve wet wood then.

My wood is uncovered but still seasoned. I'd rather not have it get wet, but rain and snow are just an inconvenience, not a real problem. If the wood is punky then rain and snow are a big problem.

shoot-straight said:

i will add, "seasoned" is not a word.

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Technically . . . it is a word . . . it's just the definition varies from person to person.

To me . . . seasoned means wood that has been cut, split and stacked in a way so that it is ready to burn easily and cleanly in my modern stove . . . typically anywhere from many months to several years.

To another person . . . seasoned means wood that has reached __ % of moisture.

To yet another person . . . seasoned means it was cut down in the Winter Season, split up in the Spring Season and sold in the Summer or Fall Season.

To another person . . . seasoned means wood that was cut and split the year previously.

To another . . . well you get the point . . . there is no one definition . . . and I suspect it will always be that way . . . since you and I may find that the "seasoned" wood being sold by the guy who cut it down this past Winter and sells it in the Fall will not burn at all in our stoves, but your neighbor or my neighbor burning in a smoke dragon may consider it well seasoned and think it's perfect for their stove.

kennyp2339 said:

Ugh, it frustrates me that someone would be in the "wood business" and really have no clue what good wood is. I know space is limited for some guys but seriously, its like trying to sell cars and not know that they run on gas or diesel. I know a guy that sells firewood, he has actually sold a few cords to a couple of my friends, well he gets his logs through the summer then starts splitting them in September to be sold in November and he calls it seasoned wood. I ask my one friend how can he be so stupid to buy wood from the guy mentioned above.. he said I don't know, I just figured it was seasoned because he said the logs have been down since hurricane Sandy.. I said simply oh well, you deserve wet wood then.

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Frustrating to be sure . . . but I think the analogy is more like the guy at the gas station selling fuel for the car.

The guy has been around for a long time and has only sold regular gas. Just about everyone loves it and says it works fine in their car.

Then one day someone shows up with a nice, newer sports car and insists that they can only fuel their car with the premium fuel since the car will develop knocks, will not run right and may affect the engine (not to mention the speed and efficiency).

The gas station guy just laughs and insists that he has always sold regular and no one has ever complained about the fuel . . . and feels as though this person with their high winder car is crazy . . . when in reality the sports car owner is absolutely right.

Some wood sellers learn and realize that newer stoves need premium fuel (I think that's one reason why we've seen folks selling kiln dried wood -- never saw this here in Maine until a few years ago) . . . other folks just kinda chug along doing what they've always done and selling their wood fuel in the same way since that's how they've always done it and most folks don't even mention their need for better fuel.

For the record . . . I'm not a wood seller or processor . . . I just think I can understand their line of thinking. It stinks when seasoned wood is anything but seasoned . . . but in some ways it is up to us as the buyers to ascertain if the wood is really seasoned or not . . . and the reality is often it is simply easier to buy the wood "green" and season it yourself (providing you have the space.)

velvetfoot said:

I would assume that all delivered split wood is unseasoned and be happy with a honest quantity and consistently sized splits.

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Ditto. Buy your wood three years in advance. If you need it to burn today, seek out kiln dried.

I always steer these arguments away from any personal "I Know it all" vibes by saying
"I didn't know any of this until I found a site with the manufacturers and dealers of these newer stoves telling us how to properly burn them. Lotta good info on there". Some actually come here and check it out.

A few of my past and present students sell wood, but they're usually old school when it comes to marketing. They cut and sell seasoned wood all year long.

I worked at a shop in Long Island last summer (same town as FrankS, but I never did get to meet him).
Anyway, the back lot was rented to a tree service. Guy with a splitter there, all day, everyday.Good throwing arm. He made a mountain as high as he could throw, them moved over and did it again, then one more time by late fall. Had to be over a hundred cord.
Nice, uncovered unstacked green wood. For sale. Seasoned for up to a year. Or as little as a few weeks. The stuff at the bottom? About as seasoned as the month old stuff.

Lots of smoke dragons still out there I guess.

I think eventually firewood kilns will become popular, but how much of a premium will you pay for heat dried wood?

Around here (Upstate NY), a properly seasoned cord of wood sells for $800+. They sell "fireplace cords"- which come out to 44 cu ft for $220-280, depending on the wood.

Almost makes me want to start selling wood myself.

Until then, I'll just keep buying it green and stacking in my backyard. I may have found a good new supplier yesterday, exchanged a couple emails with him today, crossing my fingers that it'll pan out well when the snow melts. He can deliver green split cords and log length, ordering a batch of each.

Eight hundred a cord? What part of NY is Ballston in?

Just North of Albany, South of Saratoga.

http://seasonedgourmetfirewood.com/site/products

Granted, that's only one seller... but from what I see, business is good. I drive by their place all the time, and see people there often. I've tried a couple craigslist sellers up here; they're all green, and a couple came up short.

On craigslist, you can find a "seasoned cord" for anywhere from 200-280. Some of those will come in the backs of pickup trucks, being split that day. Guess lots of people are fed up with dealing with that.

I found a honest greenish cord+ delivered for $240, I was happy with that for now, along with scrounging on the side. If this latest log length guy ends up to be legit though, I'll be real happy.

You need to learn to play the game right in order to win..... You got to be 3 years ahead or your just going to be in the same situation year after year....... Great thread to learn....... Nothing wrong with busting wood sellers chops.....

Please...if you're buying wood, you should expect to get ripped off. You will never get properly dried wood and you will never get a full measure.Cut your own, stack it, measure it, let it sit two or three years. Now you've got what you wanted.
I'm astonished that there are people on this forum who still haven't resigned themselves to this.

Brewmonster said:

Please...if you're buying wood, you should expect to get ripped off. You will never get properly dried wood and you will never get a full measure.Cut your own, stack it, measure it, let it sit two or three years. Now you've got what you wanted.
I'm astonished that there are people on this forum who still haven't resigned themselves to this.

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Amen

drz1050 said:

Just North of Albany, South of Saratoga

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I was thinking that was the place on route 9, but no? The place on Rt. 9 had ridiculous prices years ago when I lived in Clifton Park.
I remember buying some cords from a farm out your way. It may indeed could have been that link. The only thing I remember about it was that it had ants, lol, but it was good wood.
Hey, I just looked, the Rt9 and Rt50 places are both Gourmet, lol!
Another time, a guy and his girl friend rolled up in a rented cube truck and delivered the wood-it turned out to be pine, but what did I know.
I think it's a total plus that you found someone that'll deliver an honest cord, green or not. This is the price now-maybe you could get a better price in summer. Finding a good wood guy is tough.
When we visit relatives in CP, sometimes we pass a place that has a lot of firewood-Grooms Road, not sure?
The downside of buzzing up the wood in your backyard is that it might annoy the neighbors. Hey, isn't there some kind of noise ordinance now? LOL.
If you're going through all this BS and have natural gas, I'll be PO'd.

lol, no natural gas at my place.. I wish I had that. They have it on the main road, but I'm off a little side street so I guess I'm not good enough haha.

Even if I had nat'l gas though, I'd still have a wood stove. I just like them.

Yep, the rt 9 place is the one I was referring to. I think they're owned by the same people as the rt 50 one, not sure. Don't know the place on Grooms you're talking about... the guy I'm buying from now is just off rt 67 West a little ways.

Haha, not that worried about my neighbors. A couple of them are woodburners, and if the log length guy turns out to be legit we'll probably go in on some together. I was scrounging all last year, cutting it to 4-6' lengths when I found it and bucking it to 16" in my backyard. I only run the saw during the day, so haven't heard a complaint yet. Plus, if they can deal with my motorcycles, a chainsaw is nothing!

I am of the belief that selling fore wood is nearly a loosing battle and per the volume, time to get it to 20% and space needed for such an operation - JUST NOT REALISTIC!!

Truth is the wood I CSS that has been waiting patiently for 3 yrs is worth MORE than the cost of propane - much more to me.

If I were buying wood mid season - shame on me!! To expect to find 20% hard wood at that time would be total fantasy and I should be ready to pay gold ounce prices for it.

If and when I am to a point of "buying" my fuel the responsibility of having it READY to burn will still remain on ME. Buy in bulk(cheaper) - bite the bullet and buy three yrs worth. Then shop and replace one year at a time in the off season for best pricing and supplement if possible w self procured fuel.

My only concern with purchased wood, if I were to buy any, would be that I am getting the AMOUNT I paid for - not the MC. I would go into the transaction knowing "seasoned" is a relative term and not something the producer has much concern about. It just is not at all realistic to think ANY producer has 20% wood knowing full well what it takes to get it there. If I were in a mid season crunch I would go buy a pallet(ton) of bio fuel and get through on that.

There is just NO money in selling dry fuel so the producer will ALWAYS sell what they can to make more $$ - this goes for everything that is produced and sold - not just sticks and splits. Get and stay AHEAD - three years is the minimum. And be more concerned with the amount vs. the MC and think about what you would charge for a cord of three year old oak that you Cut/split/stacked - priceless right??

Antique furniture, made daily.

Honestly, few firewood sellers offer wood that's been split & stacked long enough to fully cure like you'd do yourself. At best it's been split and left to lay in a huge pile for a year, stirred on occasion. At worst it was cut and split off the stump after you hung up the phone. These folks often don't have the manpower, the time or available space to stack a lot of wood for drying.

True, expect two things when buying a load of firewood ~ the load will probably be short and probably not be ready to burn tonight. Regardless of the seller's claims, expect these things and you won't be disappointed.

The thing that irritates me about purchased firewood is false claims about the type of wood being delivered. Now we can discuss the definition of hardwoods 'til the cows come home but I think most folks would be ticked off if they paid good money for a load of "mixed hardwood" and later found that the load was nearly half gum, tulip poplar and other crap. Misrepresentation is a common practice in the firewood biz.

Bob- you're assuming the seller is bucking and splitting by hand like you or I.

I haven't met many sellers, but I've met a few.. And every one of them had a firewood processing machine of some sort. Just load the log onto it and splits come out the other side, then they fall right on a conveyor belt to a truck.
The manual labor per cord is a fraction of what you and I do.