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wardog

New Member
Mar 1, 2015
10
Indiana
I started a thread on another OWB site about an OWB that I purchased and have had nothing but troubles with. I purchased it as a first time buyer of an OWB from what I read in the advertisement as most of us first time OWB customers do. This unit was/is advertised as "the finest in updraft gasification!!!" I was referred to this site because saying there were a lot of gassers on here when I requested expert opinions. Therein lies the rub for me as a novice because from all that I have read since my purchase of this unit which has NOT performed even close to what was advertised is the reality that it may NOT even be what the OWB industry would classify as a wood gasification boiler. This unit is basically a tub in a tub with 25 gallons of boiler anti-freeze enclosed that runs an enclosed loop via 3/4" pex pipe. The unit has a fan blower that blows air into the firebox when it calls for heat which appears to me to be something like a BLACKSMITH FORGE. There is absolutely no where for the smoke generated to be reburned and it appears to go up the three inch flue to the point that it shoots a foot or two of flames up the flue and the flue itself becomes glowing red hot. Sparks as well as smoke fly from the unit and then when temp is reached it smolders down to nothing out the flue. I mention that this is like a blacksmith forge because in the 6-8 weeks I burned this unit I went through 7.5 cords of wood, the wood loading door has drastically warped, the seal around it at the bottom is completely gone and the wood grate on the inside has warped to the point of cracking in two in spots. In using so much wood I could only get about a 4-6 hour burn time and here in my state it has not been cold this winter until just last month which I have not even used the boiler because of a leak of the boiler antifreeze from the BACK of it. I am looking for expert opinions and or experience to tell me whether this unit would even remotely meet the industry standards as a wood gasification boiler? In my recent research I see an OWB that uses forced air that this may be more suited to but it used ducts to force the heat into the home and NOT liquid! I'm looking for OWB industry standards or classification that will stand up to legal scrutiny.
 
[Reformatted]

I started a thread on another OWB site about an OWB that I purchased and have had nothing but troubles with.

I purchased it as a first time buyer of an OWB from what I read in the advertisement as most of us first time OWB customers do.

This unit was/is advertised as "the finest in updraft gasification!!!" I was referred to this site because saying there were a lot of gassers on here when I requested expert opinions.

Therein lies the rub for me as a novice because from all that I have read since my purchase of this unit which has NOT performed even close to what was advertised is the reality that it may NOT even be what the OWB industry would classify as a wood gasification boiler.

This unit is basically a tub in a tub with 25 gallons of boiler anti-freeze enclosed that runs an enclosed loop via 3/4" pex pipe.

The unit has a fan blower that blows air into the firebox when it calls for heat which appears to me to be something like a BLACKSMITH FORGE.

There is absolutely no where for the smoke generated to be reburned and it appears to go up the three inch flue to the point that it shoots a foot or two of flames up the flue and the flue itself becomes glowing red hot.

Sparks as well as smoke fly from the unit and then when temp is reached it smolders down to nothing out the flue.

I mention that this is like a blacksmith forge because in the 6-8 weeks I burned this unit I went through 7.5 cords of wood, the wood loading door has drastically warped, the seal around it at the bottom is completely gone and the wood grate on the inside has warped to the point of cracking in two in spots.

In using so much wood I could only get about a 4-6 hour burn time and here in my state it has not been cold this winter until just last month which I have not even used the boiler because of a leak of the boiler antifreeze from the BACK of it.

I am looking for expert opinions and or experience to tell me whether this unit would even remotely meet the industry standards as a wood gasification boiler? In my recent research I see an OWB that uses forced air that this may be more suited to but it used ducts to force the heat into the home and NOT liquid! I'm looking for OWB industry standards or classification that will stand up to legal scrutiny.
 
Thanks EW. :)

To the O.P. My curiosity is piqued. What brand of wood burner do you have?
I have not come across anything like what you describe and I'd like to see if the manufacturer has any construction details on their website.

Let's start with the basic question.........What is the moisture content of your wood? Or.....how long was it allowed to season before burning?
 
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Thanks EW. :)

To the O.P. My curiosity is piqued. What brand of wood burner do you have?
I have not come across anything like what you describe and I'd like to see if the manufacturer has any construction details on their website.

Let's start with the basic question.........What is the moisture content of your wood? Or.....how long was it allowed to season before burning?[/quote

ALL wood has been cut split and stored in my barn for 3 to10 years. I have kept records of every trailer load of wood brought from the barn to the OWB and burned. The moisture content was checked with a two prong moisture meter and the highest reading in the load recorded. The highest any one piece was 25% with nearly all being at 20% down to 14%.
 
Wardog , sorry to hear of all your trouble. I have been down your road before about 7 years ago with another boiler. I'm no expert on OWB or any of this stuff discussed here.
I'm guessing this is the unit you bought- http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUTDOOR-WOO...079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab55fd38f This unit has been talked about here and it isn't pretty- https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lil-powerhouse-boiler.29342/.
I got both states Attorney General involved with my purchase. It is very disapppointing that the Attorney General is just a mediator and can not force the seller to do anything. My problem involved the seller refusing to communicate with me, changing / opening different internet storefronts, etc, etc. If this is your seller mentioned above he has been in business under the same storefront for a number of years.
I was very close to pursue legal action ( Small Claims Court) but of course it would have cost me more in $$ and time than the thing was worth. I spent alot of time putting together a "case" together to present to the Attorney Generals. In the end I threw away $4700 right into the lap of a thief. I hope your situation is a different story.
Have you contacted the seller and told him your issues? Is he willing to take it back on a pro rated basis? Attempt to strike a deal without burning your bridges and possibly getting some $$ out of the deal. Once the Attorney General gets involved I don't think your odds increase for any type of settlement. If you can keep a positive line of communication open with the seller you're way ahead of many before you. I've got my fingers and toes crossed for you..........Best of luck. I know you'll keep us updated......
 
Wardog , sorry to hear of all your trouble. I have been down your road before about 7 years ago with another boiler. I'm no expert on OWB or any of this stuff discussed here.
I'm guessing this is the unit you bought- http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUTDOOR-WOO...079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab55fd38f This unit has been talked about here and it isn't pretty- https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lil-powerhouse-boiler.29342/.
I got both states Attorney General involved with my purchase. It is very disapppointing that the Attorney General is just a mediator and can not force the seller to do anything. My problem involved the seller refusing to communicate with me, changing / opening different internet storefronts, etc, etc. If this is your seller mentioned above he has been in business under the same storefront for a number of years.
I was very close to pursue legal action ( Small Claims Court) but of course it would have cost me more in $$ and time than the thing was worth. I spent alot of time putting together a "case" together to present to the Attorney Generals. In the end I threw away $4700 right into the lap of a thief. I hope your situation is a different story.
Have you contacted the seller and told him your issues? Is he willing to take it back on a pro rated basis? Attempt to strike a deal without burning your bridges and possibly getting some $$ out of the deal. Once the Attorney General gets involved I don't think your odds increase for any type of settlement. If you can keep a positive line of communication open with the seller you're way ahead of many before you. I've got my fingers and toes crossed for you..........Best of luck. I know you'll keep us updated......[/quote

YES, I have contacted the manufacturer and in fact worked with him throughout my two years of installing it myself. I have followed the sellers instructions to a "T" and that is why I knew to make sure the wood I was burning was "dried or cured". I have been met with every excuse in the books for the problems being everything other than the fault of the manufacturer due to faulty material and workmanship. I have taken numerous pictures that I have sent to the manufacturer showing exactly what I have described. I have also heard of many others who have purchased this OWB and ran into the very same problems as I am having. This was my intent with searching the internet for expert advise on exactly what this thing is or is NOT as far as the industry standards pertain to gasification OWB. It seems to me with as many disgruntled customers as there seem to be that the industry itself would step up to the plate to get this type of misrepresentation taken care of. YES, this is a rotten deal in which these units are purchased from the advertisement plastered over the internet and in the above cited add by unknowing customers. One would think that if what is being said in the advertisement is NOT true then why is the industry NOT addressing it. I have NOT bashed this manufacturer and told nothing but what is true in my situation but5Iam to the point that I am pretty sure I will NOT get my money returned so I am trying t gather documentation that will stand legal scrutiny. I am sure that the quality of materials and the workmanship are inferior and what I am trying to focus on now is the misrepresentations of what this system actually is and what it will do. I am of the opinion as a novice OWB customer that what we have here exceeds misrepresentation and that is my concern on exactly what classifies an OWB as a gasification system.
 


The problem is that if you read through their website,(lil powerhouse?) they really make no concrete claims regarding efficiency or emissions.
They state a bunch of general information but no where does the manufacturer come out and say our boiler does this or that and this is why.
The fact that some of the syntax used looks like it was written by a 4th grader who makes up words as he goes along is a good clue....

I feel your pain Wardog. There are hundreds if not thousands of users just like you who were sucked in by unsubstantiated claims on many brands of wood boilers. Not just the particular brand you have.
The sad fact in your case is that there is no guarantee of performance given anywhere in the literature or on the website. You can claim in court that the boiler does not perform as expected but unless you can prove that it falls short of what the manufacturer claims, you basically have nothing.
As they basically make no concrete claims regarding performance, you got nothing on them.
 
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WOW, (and I'm NOT referencing any OWB) I wish that I had found this web site and the previous thread cited above by NNYorker. I would certainly NOT have purchased this OWB. What I an say about the previous thread is that it contained much banter back and forth back in 1999 and these units are still being sold today. I bought mine in 2011, delivered in about May or April of 2012 and I didn't finish installing it myself until spring of 2014. I started burning it in Nov. of 2014 an in 6 weeks my problems started. I actually believe the anti-freeze leak probably occurred much sooner but never noticed it until I went around and removed the back door to chick the liquid level. That is when I noticed it to be a little low an the saw the small trickle running down the framework on the back outside of the firebox. Of course this isn't the only thing I noticed that didn't make sense in a 6-8 week burn time. I also saw one of these used units advertised on eBay after I had mine installed but NOT yet used that told of the very same issues that I have experienced in my short 6-8 wee usage. I tried to get that lister to go into detail but they abruptly removed their add after I contacted the manufacturer about what was being said in this ebay add. I've wrote my purchase off as an educational experience for a first time OWB consumer with absolutely ZERO knowledge in how an OWB should operate the INDUSTRY standards or their guidelines. I looked at several manufacturers and even went to home shows in which EVERY ONE of them had nothing but their claims about what their units would do. As a customer, like any other customer, I was looking for the best bang for my buck as I could get in an OWB to do the bare minimum of heating my home to save on the high bills from my heat pump running on backup electric forced air heat during the cold winter without any bells or whistles. I know that many doubt BIG government but here is an industry that lacks any regulation that protects common unknowing consumers. Maybe $5000-$6000 isn't a lot of money to some for a heat source but for many consumers it is equivalent to millions. There is an old saying of "One bad apple don't spoil the whole batch" but from the perception of an unknowing consumer with several hundred pounds of scrap metal in their back yard it sure makes BIG government look better.
 
I placed this unit for sale on eBay if anyone is in the market for "The finest in updraft GASIFICATION" technology. I understand ALL these OTHER manufacturers are trying to copy this one!
 
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I placed this unit for sale on eBay if anyone is in the market for "The finest in updraft GASIFICATION" technology. I understand ALL these OTHER manufacturers are trying to copy this one!

I like your EBAY listing.....An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I wish I would have done the same with my previous boiler to get some more "exposure" for the seller.
 
...and I wish people would at least paragraph a post so it's somewhat readable...........
 
Normally I would paragraph a writing but when a post or an add I am more concerned with the space used to get it ALL in rather than the ease of reading. Sorry for that and if it were my site I would not be so concerned about it.
 
[Reformatted]
I started a thread on another OWB site about an OWB that I purchased and have had nothing but troubles with.
I purchased it as a first time buyer of an OWB from what I read in the advertisement as most of us first time OWB customers do.
This unit was/is advertised as "the finest in updraft gasification" I was referred to this site because saying there were a lot of gassers on here when I requested expert opinions.
Therein lies the rub for me as a novice because from all that I have read since my purchase of this unit which has NOT performed even close to what was advertised is the reality that it may NOT even be what the OWB industry would classify as a wood gasification boiler.
This unit is basically a tub in a tub with 25 gallons of boiler anti-freeze enclosed that runs an enclosed loop via 3/4" pex pipe.
The unit has a fan blower that blows air into the firebox when it calls for heat which appears to me to be something like a BLACKSMITH FORGE.
There is absolutely no where for the smoke generated to be reburned and it appears to go up the three inch flue to the point that it shoots a foot or two of flames up the flue and the flue itself becomes glowing red hot.
Sparks as well as smoke fly from the unit and then when temp is reached it smolders down to nothing out the flue.
I mention that this is like a blacksmith forge because in the 6-8 weeks I burned this unit I went through 7.5 cords of wood, the wood loading door has drastically warped, the seal around it at the bottom is completely gone and the wood grate on the inside has warped to the point of cracking in two in spots.
In using so much wood I could only get about a 4-6 hour burn time and here in my state it has not been cold this winter until just last month which I have not even used the boiler because of a leak of the boiler antifreeze from the BACK of it.
I am looking for expert opinions and or experience to tell me whether this unit would even remotely meet the industry standards as a wood gasification boiler? In my recent research I see an OWB that uses forced air that this may be more suited to but it used ducts to force the heat into the home and NOT liquid! I'm looking for OWB industry standards or classification that will stand up to legal scrutiny.

The posting space is unlimited here and for the ease of reading it's nice to have some punctuation like paragraphing as the post under your first post did. I guess you missed that.......

You'll find that typically, when projecting a point or airng a concern, block psoting is not read but skipped. It's just to hard to read that stuff.
 
I did go and look at the Flea Bay ad. No comments on it and the seller is at 100% positive feedback which is interesting. It sure sonds to me like it's a boat anchor.
 
Yes, I also noticed the feedback rating. Seemed kind of odd for a seller selling this deficient a product. Makes me a bit more leery of EBay sellers.
 
Going and looking at previous threads about this so called boiler (there are threads back 4 to 5 years archived), none of them are good. and on one thread the guy who supposedly owns the company was posting and it appeared to me (I'm not a boiler person and don't claim to be) that he had his foot firmly inserted in his posterior, IOW didn't know shitte.

I've learned on this site that searching atchived threads can turn up some interesting reads. There is a lot of stuff tucked away on the servers that carry this site.....

I'm a heated air person so my knowledge is very limited but I can still discern the facts from fantasy.
 
I believe most of the feedback is for parts and not complete "WOW" OWB. Maybe what happens is that people get these things and then take some time getting them installed as I did and they leave positive feedback because thy at least received an OWB in a reasonable time frame. YES, they look decent off his trailer as mine did but upon me looking it over as I hooked up some of the plumbing while being stored in my pole barn I began to question it's durability due to how cheaply it appeared to be made to me. At that time I was as green as a gourd on OWB and especially one that is the "finest in updraft GASIFICATION." I had no idea that 4-6 hours burn time was going to be the case in early winter in southwestern Indiana. The add sure doesn't tell that story neither does it stat the firebox is 16 gauge but does knock the other manufacturers thick heavy firebox as being less efficient.
 
Going and looking at previous threads about this so called boiler (there are threads back 4 to 5 years archived), none of them are good. and on one thread the guy who supposedly owns the company was posting and it appeared to me (I'm not a boiler person and don't claim to be) that he had his foot firmly inserted in his posterior, IOW didn't know shitte.

I've learned on this site that searching atchived threads can turn up some interesting reads. There is a lot of stuff tucked away on the servers that carry this site.....

I'm a heated air person so my knowledge is very limited but I can still discern the facts from fantasy.

Yes and the one thread is even referenced in an above post going back to 2009. I wish I would have seen that thread, before I, as an unknowing OWB consumer purchased this product. Seems odd to me that this product is still being sold today unless those consumers do NOT mid loading it every 4-6 hours and removing the grate and all to totally clean it every other day. They surely must also be burning green wood as the clam was my 3-10 year old cut, split and stored in the barn was too green and caused the firebox to leak in 6-8 weeks use.
 
Well, being a pellet stove person, maybe that ain't all bad. Lots less complex. If you look at my avitar, thats a scotch back 250 horsepower bio-fuel (wood chip) boiler and it just so happens my employer owns it and I get to play with it ocassionally. It's all computerized with a touch screen and it's a true gasification boiler where the fuel bed gasifies above itself and reburns in the arch above (all refractory lined). It operates around 1600 degrees (f). Nice thing about it is, you can actually watch the gasification taking place through viewports. Pretty neat actually and no 16 gage material in it either....... It's a Hurst Boiler btw. www.hurstboiler.com
 
I looked at the pictures on their website and the grate sure don't look like much to me, looks like angle steel and the doors look pretty thin too. I know the Hurst has cast irom grates, but then again, it's a heavy duty industrial unit and of course it has to be certified yearly too.
 
I would call the company and ask to see the test reports the following claims are based on.

  • Can produce up to 500,000 BTU's per house on a continual basis.
  • This furnace burning dry split cured oak and using 50,000 BTU's per hour will need to be loaded every 26.6. hours.
  • This furnace burning dry split cured oak and using 100,000 BTU's per hour will require loading every 13.3 hours.
They seem a bit spurious to me.

And this statement alone would have set my threat radar pinging at DefCon level 1

Dry wood weighs 12 times less than green wood or 1# of dry wood will weigh 12#'s when cut green the 11# difference is water so for each 1 of dry wood you throw in an outdoor boiler it is 1# of wood and about 1 and 1/2 gallons of water--this is where the corrosion issue comes to play
 
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