Propane powered vehicle conversions

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andrewsmfg

New Member
Sep 28, 2014
3
Central CT
Anyone have any experience converting their vehicle to propane? I know kits are available for both the older carb vehicles as well as new direct injection kits. Gasoline costs have dropped so nobody seems to be talking about converting vehicles lately, but I am confident 3 and 4$ gas is around the corner again.
 
I had a propane/gas dual fuel system for a few years back in the 80s. I used it in a pickup and liked it at that time. Propane is clean and was fairly economical at the time as I filled it from my home/farm tank. It didn't quite deliver the mileage per gallon, but close to 90%. No changing spark plugs and half the oil changes because it burned cleaner. All in all probably wouldn't go back to it now with the mileage current vehicles get, but if gas gets too expensive, then again propane prices often follow gas so.
 
I did conversions back in the 80es. I would not recommend it
The fuel is to dry and hard on valves , In cold climate hard to start
unless duel fuel. Expect only 60 to 80 % of the mileage gasoline will give .
Also converted lots back to gas
Just my 2 cents worth
 
We use to maintain a small fleet of propane trucks for a lawn service outfit back in the 80's. They were small block Chevys. Changed the heads out about every 30-50k because the valves and seats would deteriorate. Except for recent weather the temps are manageable for propane around here. The unit I am converting should see 10hrs @50% load on 20lbs of LP based on my same model factory equipped for LP. I am doing it just for convenience and for emergencies (plus I was bored), I also keep a larger gasoline unit ready to go with a rotating supply of fuel which came in handy for Sandy and Irene.
 
Most newer model pickups now have hardened valves. I have been converting the fleet of pickups I am responsible for to compressed natural gas/gas dual fuel.
Have about 90-F150's and F250's done with no engine issues and some are getting close to 100K.
Propane is more readily available.
 
How was the filling process when you used your home tank TMarch?

I assume you didn't have a pump, but used a wet leg hookup?

This is what I was interested in doing. Filling my 1000gallon home tank when bulk costs are low then and refilling my truck at home.
 
This is what I was interested in doing. Filling my 1000gallon home tank when bulk costs are low then and refilling my truck at home.
You wouldn't be trying to stick it to the man now would you? When fuels are used as a road fuel on public roads they want their taxes. Thats like filling up my 1,000 tank with home heating oil and using it to fill my VW TDI.
But I wonder how they could monitor that with LP and NG, cant dye it like the diesel.
 
No, I'm talking for off road use only....but that brings up an interesting point. Do you pay road tax on the kilowatt hours spent charging your Chevy volt?
 
No, I'm talking for off road use only....but that brings up an interesting point. Do you pay road tax on the kilowatt hours spent charging your Chevy volt?
Thats coming soon. The feds are trying to figure out that one. Road tax collected on road fuels is used to subsidize road, bridge and tunnel projects and repairs and some other things. One thought is to collect a tax when your vehicle is inspected based on the odometer info stored in the ECM.
 
Thats coming soon. The feds are trying to figure out that one. Road tax collected on road fuels is used to subsidize road, bridge and tunnel projects and repairs and some other things. One thought is to collect a tax when your vehicle is inspected based on the odometer info stored in the ECM.

The politicians will be seen as attacking green tech. Risky move but certainly fair.
 
No, I'm talking for off road use only....but that brings up an interesting point. Do you pay road tax on the kilowatt hours spent charging your Chevy volt?
No, but I was charged a higher vehicle registration fee in VA on my hybrid to account for that (false) factor -- despite the fact that my Highlander hybrid uses no utility electricity and many conventional cars get much better fuel mileage (so their paying less tax at the pump too).
 
I would think with natural gas being found all over the US, that will be the next generation of fuel.

Does it have the same issues as propane?
 
I would think with natural gas being found all over the US, that will be the next generation of fuel.

Does it have the same issues as propane?

Natgas is way harder to deal with than propane. You compress a whole lot of propane to about 120 psi and it turns to a small amount of liquid. You compress nat gas to 3000 psi and it is still gas with less energy per CF so the range of compressed NG vehicles is smaller. You can freeze NG into a liquid but it happens at a ridiculous -200 something F and then boils off to atmosphere as it warms up.

There are currently NG vehicles available that burn both compressed NG and liquid NG. We have a liquid NG fueling station in my city. They have this huge thermos that constantly boils off gas to atmosphere.

Oh and oddly, propane sinks to the ground and NG rises.
 
You wouldn't be trying to stick it to the man now would you
Minnesota charges almost no tax on ethanol so why would other gases not be the same. You can get E85 for 1.35 and regular is now 2.54
 
Oh and oddly, propane sinks to the ground and NG rises.

Why oddly? Propane is C3H8 with a molecular weight of 44 g/mol; natural gas is mostly methane (CH4) with 16 g/mol. Air is predominantly a nitrogen/oxygen mixture with ~29 g/mol. Hence methane is lighter and rises while propane is heavier and sinks.
 
Sydney-Harris1.jpg
 
Why oddly? Propane is C3H8 with a molecular weight of 44 g/mol; natural gas is mostly methane (CH4) with 16 g/mol. Air is predominantly a nitrogen/oxygen mixture with ~29 g/mol. Hence methane is lighter and rises while propane is heavier and sinks.

I remember what a mol is, 6.02 etc., but most people think gas is gas and those funny little properties aren't expected.

It was a hoot. We had this liquid NG dispenser come to town and he planned on converting fleets of delivery trucks to burn LNG. Great, it's cheap. They have a maintenance shop with a hanging reznor heater. What do you suppose happens when they leave an LNG fueled truck in that shop over the weekend and then come in first thing Monday morning and kick on the heater? Those LNG tanks are built to not hold pressure but to bleed off gaseous NG as it boils out of the liquid phase in the tank over time.
 
Couple kids thought it would be a great idea to open the valves on a couple 100lb propain tanks at the fire hall that was going to have a weekend fish fry. No windows in the buildings for a block or so and of course the fire hall was only describable by the fire trucks sitting on the concrete pad.
 
Do you pay road tax on the kilowatt hours spent charging your Chevy volt?

Virginia is implementing a hybrid and electric car tax specifically because of that.
 
I would think with natural gas being found all over the US, that will be the next generation of fuel.

Does it have the same issues as propane?
The issue with compressed natural gas is the pressures, 3600 PSI. Mechanic and driver education if very important. The vehicles run well and clean, but are not hardly as responsive as regular gas. EPA approved kits are costly and the tank takes up a good bit of room in the bed. We compress our own gas so the cost is well less than $2.00 per gas gallon equivalent and most of that cost is in the compression cost. Spark plug life is shortened somewhat but when you drop the engine oil out it appears to be a lot cleaner that those ran on unleaded. So far, so good.
We also have over 100 class 8 trucks running on CNG, not bi-fuel. No more after-treatment issues with these units as compared to our diesel units, but they have their own set of issues.
 
Virginia is implementing a hybrid and electric car tax specifically because of that.
MN is griping that all the cars and trucks are getting better milage and so buying less fuel. Bo-ho, the cars you tax on purchase are far more expensive and they charge an excise tax on the tires and sales tax.
 
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