I have a 2006 Quadrafire Mt. Vernon pellet stove and am having a problem with it shutting down (pellets stop feeding) about 5 minutes after the blower comes on. Up until then, it operates normally. I have cleaned and replaced gasket around door. After inspecting it, I noticed some of the insulation on the thermo coupler has started to come off about an inch from the end. Should I buy a new thermo coupler and install it? The stove has worked great for nine years. this is the first problem I have had with it. Normally, I would call Courtland Hearth/Hardware in Belair MD to service it, but I was laid off from work in July of last year and still haven't found a job. money is really tight and Courtland charges $150 an hour to come out, so I am trying to spend as little as possible. If you think this may work, can you send me a video or instructions on how to install the TC? I don't see that in the manual. thanks so much for you help.
Quadrafire Mt Vernon OE pellet stove stops feeding pellets;
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TimfromMA
Minister of Fire
bogieb
Minister of Fire
Shutting down - do you mean that you have fire and it just quits feeding pellts? If so, your proof of fire sensor may be bad. If it is shutting down before it lights, then could be what Tim said.
Thanks for replying. If the igniter was faulty, the pellets wouldn't ignite in the first place, right? They light up right away, like normal. There is plenty of fire and hot ashes in the pot when the pellets stop feeding. Are you saying the igniter is telling the auger to stop at some point?
Thanks for responding. Yes, when I turn up the thermostat, the stove starts up, pellets drop, they ignite, pellets keep feeding, the fire grows for about 5-10 minutes, then the blower starts. the pellets keep feeding for about 5 more minutes then it stops.
What and where is the proof of fire sensor? Is that connected to the thermo couple?
TimfromMA
Minister of Fire
If it's lighting then no, it's not the igniter but perhaps the POF switch as bogieb suggested.
I just went the manual and I can't find any reference to a "proof of fire sensor/switch. Is there another manual I should be looking at?
Thanks, Bill
TimfromMA
Minister of Fire
I only have very generalized knowledge since I don't own your particular stove. I'm sure someone else will chime in who knows for sure.
bogieb
Minister of Fire
According page 23 of a Mt. Vernon manual I found online, it can be that the exhaust plenum is dirty (has it been cleaned lately?), The exhaust sensor cannot read temp or is loose (looks like it is in or near blower housing), or the exhaust probe is defective (check wires).
Thank you for taking the time to look this up. Unfortunately, the manual you are referring to is for a different model (E2, dated 10/27/2014. I have an OE, which is a 2006 model. My manual for that doesn't say anything about an exhaust plenum/sensor. I did vacuum out the ash box. If you run across any info that tells me how to replace the thermo couple, I would appreciate sharing that with me. That still looks like the next thing to try. Although if I am wrong, that about $80 down the drain. Thanks again!
Bill
There is nothing called a POF switch on your stove. Some people interchange that term with a snap disc which basically does the same thing and your stove does have.
Just to be sure, which Mt. Vernon do you have, a AE, or a non AE? Totally different stoves. Does your stove do a self auto clean of the fire pot?
Are you using a thermostat and if so what brand/kind?
I own a non AE and what your stove is doing is confusing me. Have you had any electrical outages or spikes recently? Is it on a surge protector?
As was asked when was the stove and venting totally cleaned? Your stove may be shutting down, snap disc, if it's getting to hot. The disc may be a auto reset model and would be the reason your able to get it to restart. Will it restart right away, or after the stove cools down?
Just to be sure, which Mt. Vernon do you have, a AE, or a non AE? Totally different stoves. Does your stove do a self auto clean of the fire pot?
Are you using a thermostat and if so what brand/kind?
I own a non AE and what your stove is doing is confusing me. Have you had any electrical outages or spikes recently? Is it on a surge protector?
As was asked when was the stove and venting totally cleaned? Your stove may be shutting down, snap disc, if it's getting to hot. The disc may be a auto reset model and would be the reason your able to get it to restart. Will it restart right away, or after the stove cools down?
Some confusion in terminology use - the 'proof of fire' sensor is the thermo-couple on your Quad, the thing that sticks out into your burn pot, as that is what senses if the pellet feed has ignited, and that the fire has reached specific temps. When it's working normally, this should turn on a green light in your control box once the fire pot temp gets to 200 F, then the green light should turn to red once the fire pot reaches 600F temp, indicating normal operating temps have been reached.
If you have a flashing yellow / amber light in the control box, this indicates your thermo-couple is defective. In order for the thermo-couple to read correctly, it needs to be fully seated and touching the inside end of the ceramic cover that slides over it, so you should check that as a simple fix.
Do you get the green, then the red light in the control box ? Does it look like the blob of solder that connects the ends of the two twisted thermo-couple wires is cracked? If so, that is likely your problem. You can take the thermo-couple out and test it with a multi-meter, to see if it is generating enough milli-voltage necessary to accurately sense the fire pot temps, but if the yellow / amber light is flashing in the control box, that is definitive that your thermo-couple is defective.
Just to clarify - in the normal start-up sequence your yellow / amber light will flash once, but it won't continue to flash, unless the box is sensing that your thermo-couple has failed.
Trouble shooting a stove issue is often a process of elimination in figuring out what the problem is, or often a combination of problems occurring, that can cause your stove to shut down. AsBkins noted, this is often related to obstructed air flow due to fly ash build-up in the exhaust pathway, so that has to be ruled out as a cause as well.
But post back on what your control box lights are doing, and then we can continue from there as needed, OK?
If you have a flashing yellow / amber light in the control box, this indicates your thermo-couple is defective. In order for the thermo-couple to read correctly, it needs to be fully seated and touching the inside end of the ceramic cover that slides over it, so you should check that as a simple fix.
Do you get the green, then the red light in the control box ? Does it look like the blob of solder that connects the ends of the two twisted thermo-couple wires is cracked? If so, that is likely your problem. You can take the thermo-couple out and test it with a multi-meter, to see if it is generating enough milli-voltage necessary to accurately sense the fire pot temps, but if the yellow / amber light is flashing in the control box, that is definitive that your thermo-couple is defective.
Just to clarify - in the normal start-up sequence your yellow / amber light will flash once, but it won't continue to flash, unless the box is sensing that your thermo-couple has failed.
Trouble shooting a stove issue is often a process of elimination in figuring out what the problem is, or often a combination of problems occurring, that can cause your stove to shut down. AsBkins noted, this is often related to obstructed air flow due to fly ash build-up in the exhaust pathway, so that has to be ruled out as a cause as well.
But post back on what your control box lights are doing, and then we can continue from there as needed, OK?
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For my own education how long does it take for the thermocouple to sense fire? I know it is tempature related but in the above example with the stove running for 5 minutes after the convection blower has been on I figured the themo was good. Maybe it wasn't the convection blower but the combustion blower that ran for 5 minutes. I should of clarified that. On my stove if the convection blower comes on the stove has been running and is up to temp or the blower will not come on. Unless the snap disc controlling the convection blower has been moved to the exhaust pathway by the fines clean out door it takes the stove a good while running before the blower will come on. Is everything based on the control box lights and not any of the blowers coming on?
Usually, you have 4 minutes and 15 seconds for proof of fire(greenlight). It actually is a tad longer than that. It takes 10 to 15 minutes to get up to running temp. The convection fan is run by snap disc #1. When it gets hot enough, it trips and sends power to the convection fan.
I guess what I'm asking, Kap, is by the time the convection fan comes on hasn't the stove been running long enough for the thermocouple to have sensed heat and met its requirements.
I guess I'll have to get a timer and stand, or sit by the side of my stove to answer my question, although I have moded my number 1 snap disc to the exhaust path chamber and my fan comes on a good bit faster then stock. This mod was mentioned and shown over at your former home.
I guess it really won't pay for me to watch the lights on the control box without putting the snap disc back where it was stock, which I have no plans to do.
Really had no idea that it would, or might take 15 minutes to get the thermocouple up to 200 degrees.
I guess I'll have to get a timer and stand, or sit by the side of my stove to answer my question, although I have moded my number 1 snap disc to the exhaust path chamber and my fan comes on a good bit faster then stock. This mod was mentioned and shown over at your former home.
I guess it really won't pay for me to watch the lights on the control box without putting the snap disc back where it was stock, which I have no plans to do.
Really had no idea that it would, or might take 15 minutes to get the thermocouple up to 200 degrees.
From a cold start, it might take that long to get it to the running temp of 600 F, when the red light turns on, but not to get to 200 F when the green light would come on.
Yes, the thermo has sensed the fire, but it can still be bad, or not touching the inside end of the cover, which will make it not read correctly. It is worth looking at and making sure the end is good, and touching the inside end of the cover. The wires coating can get bad or cracked, and make the thermo act like this. It can also be a bad control box. Can you see if auger is reversing when this happens? Could be a bad capacitor. You could have bad connections on wire harness to auger motor, or snap disc #2 could have bad connections, or going bad. Try bypassing snap disc #2 by jumping wires together and making sure they can't ground out on anything. If the stove stops acting up, this may be the issue. You moving the snap disc has nothing to do with any of this.kap
Good morning everyone,
Yesterday ( after I did some shoveling, (we got about 8 inches from the storm), judging from where some of you guys live, I know that's small change, LOL), I decided that before I buy a new thermo couple, I would read through a few more threads. I kept seeing the emphasis on cleaning the of the stove. I do clean my stoves often. We also have a 2011 Harman Accentra insert upstairs. the Mt. Vernon is in the club basement. We heat the whole house exclusively with the stoves. What I didn't mention previously was that I hadn't been able to clean the inside walls/tubes of the stove for quite a while.
Two years ago I had Courtland come out to service the Mt. Vernon due to the fact I couldn't break the bolt holding the left side interior plate in order to remove that and other 3 plates to clean the heat exchanger tubes...etc. The tech ended up breaking the bolt and drill it out and re-thread the hole. Last season, I couldn't get break the bolt again, so I couldn't clean that area. I was going to call them this year, assuming the same thing would need to be done. I got laid off during the summer before I could schedule the appointment for this season.
Anyway, to make a short story long, last night, I decided to take another shot at getting the bolt off. I used a little CRC and let sit for a while and Voi-la, I got it off. You probably know where this is going. The inside was thoroughly clogged with build up of ash, worse than two years ago, which was possible due to a really cheap pellet I was forced to buy this year due to no one having pellets (we burn 5 to 7 tons every season). The amount of ash was much worse than any other pellet I've used. After getting it all cleaned out, I re-assembled and started it up. It ran perfectly all night and it still running now.
What threw me off on this was that when the tech cleaned the Mt. Vernon two years ago, he said it looked like the inside had never been cleaned before. We bought this house about five years ago and it had been put in by the previous owners. this means it hadn't been taken apart and cleaned for 6 or 7 seasons until I had the tech do it. The stove never shut down like this since we have been using it, so I didn't think just two seasons would have caused it to be so dirty to not function. We don't run it every night like we do the Harman upstairs. Maybe the previous owners didn't use it much, that's the only thing that would explain it.
Anyway, I apologize for taking up your time with what ended up to be poor maintenance on my part. I really do want to thank all of your for your willingness to help and sharing your knowledge. The info you shared is very helpful and now I know how to check if/when the thermo couple is bad. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance. I love both of my stoves and they save over $2000 a year in heat costs by not using our furnace which runs on propane.
God Bless, Bill
Glad you figured it out Bill, and that you're up and burning again.
No apologies necessary - you join a long list of forum posters who better appreciate what a clean stove does for your burn quality.
No apologies necessary - you join a long list of forum posters who better appreciate what a clean stove does for your burn quality.
I was wondering about what, if anything, I could lubricate them with when I put it back together.. I know I couldn't use any conventional lube due to the high temperatures. I guess I can find that online, right? Thanks so much Kap! -Bill
Bioburner
Moderator
Automotive parts supply should have the anti seize grease. I don't change a spark plug or glow plug without the stuff. Many spots on a stove for the stuff. Lock tite is a popular brand.
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