DESIGNING A NEW HOUSE FOR WOOD HEATING

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serviced by a volunteer fire dept and no fire hydrants.

After 29 years they pulled that on me. Sent me a bill doubling the cost. The next morning I was in the agents office cancelling the policy on the house and cars. Told him the station hadn't moved and had been staffed with vollies the whole time. He scrambled to start typing and miraculously removed the increase.
 
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Yikes, many of the recommendations in the op are false.
 
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Insurance agents only sell insurance for the companies they work with. I tried two different insurance agents when I bought my house, found both of them to be worthless. Found insurance for ~30% cheaper than their best price on my own. Shop around.
 
Many of the on line insurers in Canada will not insure anything that is out of their norm. I tried lots of times to get quotes from TD and others and am refused. I've got a business office attached, a wood stove, no hydrants, firehall over 8 kms., etc. They hang up on me pretty fast. Same with my car, I write-off 50% as a business expense.

Also keep in mind that the local agents are 'supposed' to go to bat for you when there's a claim and the insurer is causing problems. I've had one claim in 30 yrs due to a wind sheer that knocked out power to a thousand homes near us. It took a week to get new poles and a new line installed. My agent was on their back 2 or 3 times per day. The adjusters were working 24 hrs for weeks. I know I got reimbursed months earlier than others that had on-line insurers.

I agree that everyone needs to shop around but cost is just one side, you should never forget the other side of insurance - collecting when there is a claim.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It seem there are a lot of different situations. I have a unregulated non EPA stove, so using it to overheat one room to heat the rest works for me. I can see using these modern well regulated stoves would give much more versatility in design. The other thing to consider is the mess in the stove room. I am a pretty messy guy, and I like all the chips, piles of wood, etc kept away from my living area. Just keeps the constant cleaning to a minimum.

I still think I love my nice flat roof. We do not get that much snow here. The main reason I like it is because I need to clean the chimney about every 4 weeks, as we burn pine exclusively. It really builds up, even though I usually burn wide open. I am not sure I could use one of the bottom up systems as there is a sharp 90 degree bend at the bottom of the chimney.

If I lived in a high snow area and if money were no object one might be able to design the roof for the snow load using doubled up rafters, thicker rafters, etc.

As to the high mass chimney, it would depend on the proportion within the house. In my two story house, the greatest proportion by far is inside the house. Some smaller proportion is in the attic and above the roof. So when this all heats up, it does radiate some to the outside, but the larger proportion helps heat the house and smooth out the heat. At least you get some thermal storage benefit vs a double wall stovepipe.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It seem there are a lot of different situations. I have a unregulated non EPA stove, so using it to overheat one room to heat the rest works for me. I can see using these modern well regulated stoves would give much more versatility in design. The other thing to consider is the mess in the stove room. I am a pretty messy guy, and I like all the chips, piles of wood, etc kept away from my living area. Just keeps the constant cleaning to a minimum.

I still think I love my nice flat roof. We do not get that much snow here. The main reason I like it is because I need to clean the chimney about every 4 weeks, as we burn pine exclusively. It really builds up, even though I usually burn wide open. I am not sure I could use one of the bottom up systems as there is a sharp 90 degree bend at the bottom of the chimney.

If I lived in a high snow area and if money were no object one might be able to design the roof for the snow load using doubled up rafters, thicker rafters, etc.

As to the high mass chimney, it would depend on the proportion within the house. In my two story house, the greatest proportion by far is inside the house. Some smaller proportion is in the attic and above the roof. So when this all heats up, it does radiate some to the outside, but the larger proportion helps heat the house and smooth out the heat. At least you get some thermal storage benefit vs a double wall stovepipe.
Your statement about the pine makes me think that you believe that burning pine somehow creates more creosote then other types of wood. That simply isn't true. The biggest factor in creosote formation in your chimney is the moisture content of the wood you are burning. If you find you are getting a lot of creosote build up it would be a good idea to check the MC of your pine.
I also burn pine pretty much exclusively, and could probably get away with a once a year cleaning, or less. However I usually do it a couple times a year just as part of my routine maintenance inspection, and it only take a minute to do while I'm up on the roof.
 
Thanks for the links , I went through the online quote and it was about half what I'm paying now. Great I thought till I told them it was a farm , that was the end of that. "WE DON'T INSURE FARMS GOODBYE"
Perhaps that has something to do with why your rate is so high. I don't know anything about getting a house insured on a farm? Does this current insurance cover some outbuildings and farm equipment? I know my home insurance will not cover any of my business (construction) tools or equipment.
I know they have different rules when your home and property has farm status. Perhaps your lower property tax offsets your higher insurance premiums?
 
Your statement about the pine makes me think that you believe that burning pine somehow creates more creosote then other types of wood. That simply isn't true. The biggest factor in creosote formation in your chimney is the moisture content of the wood you are burning. If you find you are getting a lot of creosote build up it would be a good idea to check the MC of your pine.
All my Ponderosa pine is from 4 or 5 year old beetle killed trees, and is so low in moisture that my moisture meter will sometimes not be able to register a reading. Some of it feels like balsa wood. I just cleaned a few days ago and got out about 1.5 gallons of fluffy creosote from 4 weeks ago which is about the norm from me. Not sure how to reconcile this.
 
Perhaps that has something to do with why your rate is so high. I don't know anything about getting a house insured on a farm? Does this current insurance cover some outbuildings and farm equipment? I know my home insurance will not cover any of my business (construction) tools or equipment.
I know they have different rules when your home and property has farm status. Perhaps your lower property tax offsets your higher insurance premiums?
I wish you were right about taxes, they are about par with insurance. Taxes include no water, no sewer, no sidewalks, no street lights , no fire hydrants and take your garbage to the dump for a fee, good deal.
 
I just cleaned a few days ago and got out about 1.5 gallons of fluffy creosote from 4 weeks ago which is about the norm from me. Not sure how to reconcile this.
A better stove would likely help. Creosote and smoke are basically fuel that wasn't converted to heat.
 
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All my Ponderosa pine is from 4 or 5 year old beetle killed trees, and is so low in moisture that my moisture meter will sometimes not be able to register a reading. Some of it feels like balsa wood. I just cleaned a few days ago and got out about 1.5 gallons of fluffy creosote from 4 weeks ago which is about the norm from me. Not sure how to reconcile this.
Well there is something going on there to create that much creosote, but if your pine is that dry you can rule that out. My guess is if you installed an insulated liner in that masonry chimney you'd be down to a cup of creosote a year from that dry pine, like me.
 
I've thought about this a lot and would love to have my next house built, and with efficiency and wood heating in mind. There are a lot of variables and choices out there though, not necessarily one best layout. For one, I would never design a house with an inefficient old smoke dragon in mind. If I were to build and pick a stove it would only be the biggest and most efficient ones around, like a BK, Woodstock, or other similar ones. I wouldn't mess with masonry at all. Seems costly, and a lot of labor and planning, and much harder to make changes or whatever later. And most times will involve extra elbows in the system and make cleaning difficult. They also seem like one giant radiator that passes through the living space through the roof to outside and can sink your heat right out into the sky. I'd rather have a nice black (or matching stove color) double walled insulated stainless steel going straight up. Most highly efficient stoves tend to have slightly cooler exhaust anyhow, and to work correctly they need good draft, so trying to recover a little bit of flue heat doesn't sound like a good idea. Could be why your dealing with lots of creosote. Don't masonry flues require a big air gap between the flue and masonry now? Might not look as nice but I think a black pipe looks right at home, and you can still make a nice stone hearth, even extended all the way to the roof (just not through the roof).

I would so love a log home, and have a few designs picked out already plus some modifications I'd do. Worried about poorer r-values, but they try and say even despite r-value ratings the air tightness and thermal mass can make them more efficient than modern codes for most of the US and even comparable in Alaska weather: http://www.hochstetlerloghomes.com/log_home_information.php?id=3 But I think they are embellishing a bit. So still might go either thicker or double studded wall. IDK. Would like to see some per finished sqft price comparisons also with heating values added in.

As with most I'd like a large house. And I don't want to discount the possibility of a larger family in the future. But still keeping it reasonable sized. I'm thinking a footprint of 32x32 or slightly smaller. Full 2 story with a simple single roof (not like most houses today with no fewer than a dozen different roof pitches and seams) and good standing seam metal roof. I'd also want a full insulated basement, preferably in a hillside to accommodate a walk out front, with large glass window and doors to get light down there too. Counting the basement though, 32x32 would be close to 3,000 sqft. Technically my current house is much larger, though only listed as 2400 since none of the basement is 'finished' and lots of sqft are lost with open great room on one side, and a half floor over one side of the house. Still, in a somewhat moderate climate with a nearly super-insulated and tight house, I think something like a King or maybe some of the 3cuft stoves could still keep up by themselves, but especially if I had backup heat from a pellet stove, or a cookstove in the kitchen, and aided by solar gain from ideally positioned windows, open floorplan, and oversized and open staircases. I'm still debating if I'd want the stove in the basement or main floor. Basement would probably be family room, so would probably see lots of use too, and if its walkout would be very convenient for wood. Then one of the nice looking pellet stoves could serve as backup on the main floor, and possibly a wood cookstove too. A square layout should be the most cost effective and energy efficient. Least amount of wall space if its square (so least cost to build plus less thermal leakage) and I think 2 story with a full basement would be nearly cube in shape so that should be ideal. I'd avoid 'doorways' between rooms, and make any opening fully open to the ceiling so they don't trap hot air above the door opening. I can't believe how my pellet stove with big 250cfm blower, position only 10' or so from the doorway to the other side of the house (pointed right at it) and still can be a 10º or more drop to the next room.


Building a new house though... lots more hoops to jump through especially with wood heat. I hear the banks won't allow it, and insurers either, often requiring a conventional form of heating with wood only as supplemental. If I was building, not sure exactly how I'd deal with that, perhaps some inexpensive electric baseboard heaters would be the easiest and cheapest, as long as they didn't stick out like a sore thumb (or maybe remove them later if they did).

The hardest part though, how does one afford to build a new house lol? I've heard its often difficult to impossible to get a loan for just a chunk of vacant land to build on. Maybe if your only buying an acre or two, but I want a place with enough land to harvest my own firewood, hunt, and have nice gardens and orchard. If I go very budget oriented and do a lot of work myself on the house, I think I could afford it easily enough. But I could barely do 5-10% down cash. I just don't have huge savings, and my current house is a money pit of repairs.
 
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I didn't read the whole thread so hopefully I'm not repeating whats already been said. I would first of all make the house very efficient by extreme air sealing and insulation. Then I would install a boiler !! with a boiler you can design the house however you want and still have perfectly even heat threw the house or you can heat one room and not the other. I'd take it one further and get a gassifing boiler with storage and then you don't need to worry about cleaning the chimney. I haven't cleaned mine in three years and it's still fine. Id take that one step further and install it in a shed outside the house. Then your wood and splitting area can be right next to the boiler shed !! no moving wood long distances, no tracking dirt in the house, no smoke in the house, no risk of house fire from solid fuel appliance. I know this is going to cost a lot more than a wood burner, but you have to live with this forever so why not do it right and make it convenient and comfortable ?
 
I have to agree with woodsmaster. If I were doing it all over again, I'd go for a wood furnace hooked up to a duct system.
Advantages:
You can add central air easily because you already have an air handler
You can add an air/heat exchanger/filtration for fresh air - same reason
You can switch to ground source or a heat pump if you get tired of cutting wood or new air regulations prohibit wood burning
No wood smoke, smell or danger in the house
Less cutting, stacking and sorting wood since a furnace is much less picky about wood size and quality
You may have children in the future with asthma problems and a wood stove can be a big problem
MOST important - when you sell the house (and you will eventually) some people will not want to heat with wood and the conversion is easy to any of the above.

Too late for me to change but just my opinion
 
I have to agree with woodsmaster. If I were doing it all over again, I'd go for a wood furnace hooked up to a duct system.
Advantages:
You can add central air easily because you already have an air handler
You can add an air/heat exchanger/filtration for fresh air - same reason
You can switch to ground source or a heat pump if you get tired of cutting wood or new air regulations prohibit wood burning
No wood smoke, smell or danger in the house
Less cutting, stacking and sorting wood since a furnace is much less picky about wood size and quality
You may have children in the future with asthma problems and a wood stove can be a big problem
MOST important - when you sell the house (and you will eventually) some people will not want to heat with wood and the conversion is easy to any of the above.

Too late for me to change but just my opinion
I had a wood furnace it was a wood electric combo, it was okay but the installer went with the manufactures Btu output and sized it as if it were a gas unit. The problem is gas has a constant BTU output and wood does not , so I wood go a level or two higher in the BTU. I took out the furnace and went to a gassification boiler.
 
I pretty much built my current house (25+ years now) after I'd been heating with wood for 10 years already, and knowing I'd want to continue doing so. So I had wood-heating in mind.

Half the square-footage of the house is a "great room" (sort of combined living and dining room), with the kitchen attached and very open to it. The stove sits along an interior wall of that room, against a hearth made of cinderblock filled with mortar; of course, there is a huge pier, which my builder called the sarcophagus, which supports this wall. So the whole thing is quite massive, and absorbs the heat of the stove. The effect is a bit like a Russian fireplace. Oh, and the floors in this room are brick.

I also disagree with the assertion that the stove shouldn't be in a living space. This great room is super warm and comfortable in the winter. I can distribute the heat around the house by running the HVAC in fan-only mode, but I rarely do so. Especially after having encapsulated my crawlspace, the heat seems to distribute itself fairly well anyhow - I'm thinking the cinderblock wall and sarcophagus direct a lot of heat into the sealed crawlspace, where it heats the whole house. Besides, I very much enjoy sleeping in a cold room (and supposedly it has health benefits). There is also a loft above the great room, which of course gets very warm, but is perfect for non-sleeping activities that normally take place in one's bedroom.

Insurance companies here are quite comfortable with the notion of wood heat. I pay about $1000-1200 a year for $1000 deductible, on a 1600-1700 sq-ft house. The nearest fire station is 6 miles away.
 
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The stove is an area heater. It should be where you want heat. Typically this is where folks congregate the most. I love that our stove is in the living room. It fits right in and sure is appreciated there in the winter. Often times the fire view is better than what's on the tv.
 
The more time I spend in houses with them, the more I am sold on mini-splits for heating (and a/c).

I really like my boiler & heating setup, for the house we're in. But if I was building new, I am pretty sure I would put a couple of mini-splits in, and design for a large central open space living room/kitchen/dining area that I could also put a good wood stove in to help with mid-winter heating needs.

I am actually getting so much sold on them that I am getting pretty sure that there is one in our future even with our nice boiler setup and not-so-open house design.
 
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