BK Princess Insert Cat completely disintegrating, can I still run it?

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DodgyNomad

DodgyNomad

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
704
West Michigan
Mine's crumbled, and now has holes in it, can I still run the stove until I get a replacement? We've got a cold stretch here now, and could use the stove again, but the cat is mostly gone. I can reach my hand through it inside the stove.

Also, are there how to threads already of people who have replaced their CC's, and any other refurb pics/vids?
Thank you.
 
It's basically a smoke dragon. I don't see why you couldn't run it if you had to. I would burn hotter fires to avoid chimney build up. The best thing to do would be to wait till you have the new cat.
 
webby3650 said:
I'm guessing you have a very tall chimney?
Click to expand...

Pretty tall. My living room has 22' tall ceilings, so it's about 26 feet to the top.
 
DodgyNomad said:
Pretty tall. My living room has 22' tall ceilings, so it's about 26 feet to the top.
Click to expand...
I've seen this 2x with chimneys that were 25-30'.
Have you checked your door gasket? How many seasons are on the stove?
 
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webby3650 said:
I've seen this 2x with chimneys that were 25-30'.
Have you checked your door gasket? How many seasons are on the stove?
Click to expand...

4th season, door gasket replaced last year. Just wondering if any ill effects to the stove running it this way, other than the bit of extra particulate going up the stove pipe.
 
I would run it if you need heat. Still run it in cat mode though, even without the cat. It is my understanding that the stove was not intended to be ran in bypass mode for extended periods and doing so will warp some parts.

As JA60OL said, run it hot if you do and don't smolder it like you normaly would. With the long chimney I would expect some build up to be addressed.
 
DodgyNomad said:
4th season, door gasket replaced last year. Just wondering if any ill effects to the stove running it this way, other than the bit of extra particulate going up the stove pipe.
Click to expand...
Was that a OEM replacement gasket? The gasket is typically the culprit, possibly the damage had already been done when you replaced the gasket?
 
webby3650 said:
I've seen this 2x with chimneys that were 25-30'.
Have you checked your door gasket? How many seasons are on the stove?
Click to expand...
Assuming gaskets are fine, what's the cure? Limit intake air, or damper of some sort?
 
26 ft doesn't seem like too tall a chimney. What size gasket was installed and what density? Does it pass the dollar bill test?
 
Some thoughts are:

Prior to changing the gasket, when did you last adjust the door tension using the dollar bill test?

Second, please, with the fire out, place your hand on each side of the door glass and see if the glass is tight within the door frame.

Third, you should not operate the stove with out a combustor in the stove. Do not leave the by pass open for extended periods of time.

Fourth, prior to the recent discovery of the hole in the combustor, when did you last inspect it or clean it? If you did clean it, what process did you use?

To all other posters, allow OP to address each of these, thank you.

Chris

PS It looks like Akron and Ashland Ohio will be where the brews are consumed this week. Any takers?
 
Chris:

Last adjusted the door when cleaning mid-season, which was probably in late January. The latch is snugged down pretty tight, so I just "fluff" the gasket carefully by using a very large needle when I clean the glass. I take the needle and carefully pull the gasket up working it from the inside out to give it its original shape back. It still passes the dollar bill test even now, but barely.

Glass is tight, no problems there.

Won't run the stove without the combustor, appreciate the advice as that's what I was curious about. Fortunately, we have a newer high efficiency furnace that will do well for the next few weeks, if the weather dictates.

I'm guessing last I cleaned it was 2.5 months ago, as the stove's been shut down for a several weeks. I clean it every other month on average during burn season with the stove in place, by opening the bypass and using a sooteater to keep the liner clean, followed up with the shop vac and an adapter with a small diameter flex hose, but being careful not to touch the combuster. Since instituting the sooteater cleaning method, I have peaked inside behind the stove with the bypass roughly half open with a Snap On bore scope just to check things out. I also fully remove the stove from the hearth and do a full inside out clean one time in the middle of burn season, and once in late summer before burn season begins, although I now feel we may only remove the stove from the hearth and fireplace before season now that we're completely confident in the sooteater cleaning method, and considering that I have my wood all cut and split under cover at a 3+ year inventory. The 3 year old split and dry wood has really dropped all creosote down to a minimum.

We love our BK by the way.
 
I'm really curious why you remove the insert for cleaning? It's designed in such a way that this not necessary. You're making a lot of work for yourself.
 
webby3650 said:
I'm really curious why you remove the insert for cleaning? It's designed in such a way that this not necessary. You're making a lot of work for yourself.
Click to expand...

I guess it's just habit, from when I cleaned it this way before I had the sooteater. As mentioned, I'm planning on only pulling it once per season most likely now, as I've been very happy with the low creosote and lack of issues I have had while using the sooteater. I used to like to physically look up the chimney every time, and check everything out for safety sake. Then it dawned on me to use my borescope along with the sooteater, and now I'm more comfortable not disconnecting it from the liner and removing it from the hearth every time.

I had cut my own tapered larger stainless slide plates and happened to have a set of big plastic rhino vehicle ramps that meet up perfectly with the front edge of my hearth surface that allows me pull the stove out very easily. I'm a pretty strong guy to boot, so it's really not much of a job, I just carefully slide it down onto a big piece of cardboard, do my cleaning, then slide it back up. Never been an issue.
 
My posts sound like an advertisement for Sooteater, lol.
 
I just cleaned with the sooteater for the first time and it is great in the BK. Then I discovered that you can grab onto the open bypass with one hand and lift it up towards the top of the stove which exposes the bottom of the cat and allows you to actually touch the back of the cat. This is the area where debris can accumulate in an inert or a freestander. Shop vac this area and you are done.

There should not be any creosote accumulation in the space between your SS liner and the original clay liner of your chimney. When you remove the stove it should be perfectly clean back there. What is it that you hope to find?
 
Highbeam said:
I just cleaned with the sooteater for the first time and it is great in the BK. Then I discovered that you can grab onto the open bypass with one hand and lift it up towards the top of the stove which exposes the bottom of the cat and allows you to actually touch the back of the cat. This is the area where debris can accumulate in an inert or a freestander. Shop vac this area and you are done.

There should not be any creosote accumulation in the space between your SS liner and the original clay liner of your chimney. When you remove the stove it should be perfectly clean back there. What is it that you hope to find?
Click to expand...

I hoped to find nothing, which is basicalIy what I found. LOL. I never claimed to be all that smart.
 
DodgyNomad said:
I hoped to find nothing, which is basicalIy what I found. LOL. I never claimed to be all that smart.
Click to expand...

Good. In the old days with slammer installs that did not use a liner all the way to a sealed cap you would need to pull out the insert and clean the original flue plus even the firebox of the old fireplace. Birds would fly down there and be stuck in the fireplace behind you insert. All your chimney does now is support the liner and hold it away from combustibles.
 
jeff_t said:
I'll be in Canton tomorrow night.
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I'll be at Lehman's in Kid ron all day Saturday. Sorry no brew there....but good time to visit.
 
I was told that if your Cat no longer works in your stove (ex. disintegrating, old), you can still run it. That was one of my main questions when buying a Cat stove. I specifically asked if the Cat breaks or becomes old if I can still run the stove as a normal non-cat wood stove and they said absolutely and that I just need to monitor temps because it will perform differently. Is this information wrong?
 
davo said:
I was told that if your Cat no longer works in your stove (ex. disintegrating, old), you can still run it. That was one of my main questions when buying a Cat stove. I specifically asked if the Cat breaks or becomes old if I can still run the stove as a normal non-cat wood stove and they said absolutely and that I just need to monitor temps because it will perform differently. Is this information wrong?
Click to expand...
Yes, that information is wrong. It was never designed to be ran without the cat. If you do, you run the risk of overfiring and warping parts.
 
webby3650 said:
Yes, that information is wrong. It was never designed to be ran without the cat. If you do, you run the risk of overfiring and warping parts.
Click to expand...


Oh wow, I never knew that. How could I tell if my Cat is done?
 
webby3650 said:
Yes, that information is wrong. It was never designed to be ran without the cat. If you do, you run the risk of overfiring and warping parts.
Click to expand...
I once made the same assertion, but that seems to vary with stove manufacture, and chimney height. For example, there are many running old VC's and Jotul cat stoves with no cat installed, and reporting they have no problem maintaining control of the burn with the bypass damper closed. The few I've seen report this have all had short chimneys (eg. ranchers).

Either way, BKVP says that BK's should not be run in this mode. Your Travis stove may be different, but it's not the way it was designed to be run, either way.

How do you tell when a cat is toast?

1. Visual inspection.
2. Cat probe thermometer.
 
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