Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Cant do manual trannys anymore, knees just wont have it. As far a selling a truck cuz its 10 years old ,my silverado K2500 4x4 is 20 years old and i wont part with it. Just too darn dependable. No rust either.
Where have all the manual transmissions gone?
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Mike Fromme
Burning Hunk
I've yet to get to a scheduled transmission service interval without a catastrophic failure on my v10 350... 250k; I wish. I'd be happy to go 60k.
clemsonfor
Minister of Fire
Mike, You keep putting transmissions in your 350? Are you buying heavy dutu built ones? Why not get another truck all those transmissions can't be cheap. Maybe they can't stand up to the v10?
You must always be towi g 8-12,000 pounds with it or something.
You must always be towi g 8-12,000 pounds with it or something.
Clemsonfor, your 1997 Saturn has a 4 speed automatic transmission. CVT transmissions are a relatively new product.
jharkin, you should do your own research. The company called Jatco is the supplier for Nissan's transmissions. My neighbor's Nissan Altima had catastrophic transmission failure within one year. The pathfinder line of vehicles is under a class action lawsuit for transmission failures. Jatco supplies something like 45 percent of CVT's installed in new vehicles in the U.S.
We vote with our dollars for what we want to see in this world. I would like to discourage people from buying vehicles with transmissions that don't last.
clemsonfor
Minister of Fire
Yea I have heard that about path finders. I know at least three that needed transmissions plus all the other stuff wrong with them. I would never buy one!
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I should have been more general with my proposal that trucks rot away before you benefit from the supposed 300k mile life of the diesels. In addition to rot, the 300k mile truck will have experienced significant aging such as dings, dents, paint fade, loose door hinges, stained carpet, expensive front end repairs, etc. that the buyers and owners of 70,000$ trucks will not tolerate.
Put another way, the rich SOB that buys a 70k$ truck will almost never be the same guy that is driving it at 300k miles when it finally bursts into flames and dies. Those rich guys won't tolerate the decline in looks, dependability, and status symbolism.
I bought the high dollar diesel truck after that rich guy wore out all the pretty and the depreciation hit had occurred. Ill be driving it when it bursts into flames or leaves me stranded once too many times.
clemsonfor
Minister of Fire
For the rich city grocery getter guy in a suit that drives 10 miles round trip a day that may be true.
These are not diesels I am about to talk about but only cause they dont need them. I know of a 2014 silverado right now with 80,000 miles on it , one owner and a 2014 f150 4x4 with over 50,000 on it. Thats just two off the top of my head.
There are plenty of people that get high miles in less than 15 years.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Lets see who owns those trucks when they have 300,000 miles on them. They probably still smell new.
Mike Fromme
Burning Hunk
First one went right after the factory warranty expired... Ford gave me a brand new transmission. I only had to pay install labor. $500
That transmission caught on fire about 45k later. I had it taken out/inspected and had all the updates done $1200..
Another 25k and the electronics pack in the transmission went bad... another $400.
Overall besides starters going bad it's been the only trouble I've had with the truck. So I can't complain too much.
The truck has been worked but not abused for a one ton. I've been told it's the same basic transmission in all F series trucks from the 150 up to the motorhome chassis.
TMonter
Minister of Fire
Really sounds like one of the problem transmissions out there. If you are going with heavy use you should be changing fluid every 25k and definitely have an extra cooler on it.
My wife's Honda Odyssey is one of the models with a problem transmission caused by using non-synthetic fluid and no extra cooler. The transmissions in in 99 to 04 odysseys were notorious for failures but if you put the extra cooler on them and switched to synthetic fluid the problem didn't appear.
Your definition of "pretty much rust free" does not agree with mine. [emoji12]
clemsonfor
Minister of Fire
Haha! I am comparing it to some of the stuff I see down here that came from Penn, Ct, NY,NJ, VT,ME etc. I see stuff from the early 00s that has almost no fender well left. Late 90s with holes into the cabs of pickups and cars with just paint holding the rust chips together for the outer skin.
Yea mine is a southern rust bucket but compared to some northern stuff would be called a "survivor"
Yea mine is a southern rust bucket but compared to some northern stuff would be called a "survivor"
Stelcom66
Minister of Fire
I've heard Subaru has one of the better CVTs out there, and if I were to buy a 2010 or newer Outback I would consider the CVT even though I prefer a manual. The fuel economy is significantly better, at least according to ratings. At 65 mph the Outback with the CVT is around 1800 rpm (from what I've read) - that must make for a much quieter ride and probably somewhat better mpgs than the previous Outback generation with a manual. Those would be around 3,000-3,200 rpm. Although the engine displacement was 2.5L with the previous generation, the 2010 + 2.5s are now 'undersquare', the stroke is longer than the bore, maybe the net result is more torque, but the older engine would still be capable of less rpm at highway speeds and still be able to accelerate. I never understood why Subaru geared the manual transmission Outbacks so low (high numerically) in top gear.
I don't find the CVT in the company Jeep I drive objectionable at all. Different, yes - floor it to merge on the highway and the rpms shoot up near 4k and stay there as the speed increases, let off the accelerator at 65mph and it's down to about 2k. I see the 2015s Jeep Patriots are now 6 speed automatics - I wonder if that's because of trouble or feedback re: the CVT.
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firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
The 2015 Legacys' and Outbacks' CVT also has simulated shift points . . . in other words it acts very similar to a conventional automatic as it seems as though it's shifting at certain speeds/rpms vs. having that linear increase in speed. I actually find my wife's Legacy's CVT to be quite nice and as mentioned in doing the research it seemed as though there weren't all that many issues with the CVT with Subarus . . . now head gaskets in older models . . . that's a whole other story.
The only time the CVT acts as a "traditional" CVT with no shift points is when it's cold outside and the transmission has not had a chance to warm up.
jharkin
Minister of Fire
What makes you think I have not?
CVTs are not new at all. The concept predates the automobile, and they have been experimented with in cars as early as the original Benz. (feel free to look that up) The first mass produced one I think was the dutch model in the 50s that used rubber belts and a lot of the bad rep comes from those.
Nissan had a lot of very public issues partly because they where the first automaker to use CVTs across their lineup. Some of the issues where quality, but a lot of its perception... People (me included) just don't like how CVTs sound and feel.... If they are setup to operate optimally for efficiency and power the engine will just drone at a constant speed which to people conditioned by decades of driving conventional transmissions our gut tells us something is horribly wrong.
I'm not trying to downplay your neighbors issue with his Altima, as I have heard similar stories... but often these things get blown out of proportion. For example Honda had a rash of problems with automatics in the accords, pilot's and miniavns in the early 200s that they eventually solved mostly by changing ATF formulations... You would hear horror stories on forums but if you look in CR or truedelta it was never really widespread. I own an '08 Honda and have never had an issue.
Same thing with German cars and electronics. I have a friend who is an Audi buff and has been stranded on the road by 3 A6's in a row, all with blown injectors... but I know there are many here who have trouble free Audi's.
From what Ive read statistically - now that the Nissan early issues are being resolved, the current crop of CVTs apparently are no better or worse than conventional autos for reliability - according to Consumer Reports and JDPower
http://www.washingtonpost.com/cars/...abd984-e5b4-11e3-a70e-ea1863229397_story.html
Again, it seems the biggest issue now is consumer acceptance of the different feel of a CVT, which a lot of them are addressing through software to make them mimic traditional autos with faster response, simulated shift points, and less constant speed droning. (actually limiting their potential but making them more palatable to drivers)
Having said all that, I dont think Id buy a CVT myself as I'd miss the driving feel. I feel bad enough I had to sell my manual for an auto (for family reasons as nobody else in my household knew how to drive it).
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firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Snowmobiles have also used a type of CVT since . . . well . . . almost since they became mainstream and were sold to the masses.
jharkin
Minister of Fire
The Williams race team even developed a CVT for a Formula One car in 93. Once word of the tests got out the FIA banned CVTs immediately so that the car never even was allowed on the starting grid for a race, as it would have made the team practically unbeatable.
Is this new, or are you sure you're not putting the lever in "M"? Our 2013 varies continuously when in Auto, unless I hit the shift paddles, in which case it switches to a simulated shift point (not my preferred behavior in that scenario, but not a big issue).
I can't think of a reason to program a CVT to always jump through simulated shift points. That's just throwing one of the pros of CVT's out the window.
Civics, too, from what I've heard. In contrast, my manual transmission 2002 Civic has never had an issue in nearly 200,000 miles.
Ford also had spate of automatic transmission issues they eventually solved. I knew very few late 90's Taurus owners who made it 100,000 miles without a major issue. However, the 2001 Taurus my wife had lasted 230,000 miles before we got rid of it for the Outback, and as far as she told me, never had anything other regular fluid changes done to the transmission.
The only honda auto tech I have ever talked with always said to change your transmission fluid ( 2.5 qts ) every 10-15k. Much much more often then the manual states. Fortunately its very simple to change. One bolt no filter. Always use the Honda fluid as well.
They did make some sh*t transmissions for quite a few years. Seemed like a roll of the dice as to whether it was a good generation or bad generation transmission.
Stelcom66
Minister of Fire
Like my first car's transmission - my '67 Chevy Caprice had a Powerglide, always felt like it was starting in second gear, but that was normal. After the speeds (both of them) started to slip big time I had Aamco put in a used transmission for - as the Rainman would say...about a hundred dollars.
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jharkin
Minister of Fire
Every 10K? Thats every oil change and sounds just a bit excessive? the manual for my wife's Pilot says a full change every 60 or 90 with the older conventional Honda fluid. Since it is one of the years that has issues I do a drain/fill (partial change) every 30k with redline synthetic.
I dont yet trust these factory intervals going close to 100k and more, but OTOH a tech calling for 10k trans sounds like the quick lube guy trying to sell you a 3000 mile oil change when the factory says 15k is ok.
Honda has always had automatic problems. Part of the issue I think is that their autos are such a unique design, rather than use a planetary gearset like everyone else they basicaly have a manual style box with shift actuators added to it. Its especially odd they never get it right, as their manual boxes are some of the best in the industry.
lindnova
Feeling the Heat
I had an 88 Honda Accord automatic. It would grind into reverse when cold and loudly click into when hot, but work great otherwise. Took it in to the dealer - need new reverse shift fork for $1500.00. I chose to change the fluid every 20k and drive through or back into parking spots to minimize cold reverse shifts. 90k later still working the same when I sold it at close to 200k. I dodged a bullet there.
I like manuals better. My work Silverado 6 speed is always hunting and never quick enough to downshift or in the right gear. It is programmed for effieciency and always running to high a gear. When I need it to go it pauses and hunts for the gear so long that by the time it downshifts I am in traffic and letting up on the gas. Lots of power, but the computer won't give it when I want it. Should get a programmer.
I like manuals better. My work Silverado 6 speed is always hunting and never quick enough to downshift or in the right gear. It is programmed for effieciency and always running to high a gear. When I need it to go it pauses and hunts for the gear so long that by the time it downshifts I am in traffic and letting up on the gas. Lots of power, but the computer won't give it when I want it. Should get a programmer.
I do mine about every 15k. We had a 96 accord though that had close to 300k on it that I only did at 100k intervals if that. Those were bullet proof though. Id be hesitant to put in redline synthetic but I admittedly know nothing about it. I swapped a transmission in a 2007 accord about a year ago. Took me about 20 hours spread out over a month. After that work I err on the side of caution perhaps analness. The Honda DW1 which is all you can buy now for ATF for a honda is synthetic the older Honda Z-1 is not. I have read though some folks swear by the redline synthetic. You probably would be better served by adding a better transmission filter to the car they sell some aftermarket ones that are pretty good search for magnefine (http://magnefinefilters.com/) on ebay that is what I have on both our hondas.
Honda has had recalls on transmissions but there are thousands of folks who have gotten 200-300k out of them with little maintenance you always read about the bad not the good. At some point they will fail just like a clutch will need rebuilding.
My factory manual still calls out 3000 mile oil changes, for towing use profile, which is what I do. Wife's last three cars have all been spec'd at 10k changes on full synthetic, but always needed topping off at 5k, lest a low oil level sensor light comes on and scares the hell out of you.
Dino fluid is cheap, engines are spendy.
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firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Nope . . . not in the "manual" mode (I hate flappy shifters and never use them . . . if I'm going to shift a car I want to do it the real way with a real manual.)
Don't quote me on it . . . but I think the simulated points were added in the 2015 line up. From what I understand it's more of a simulated deal done through the computer programming in an effort to make the feel of the CVT more like a conventional automatic. I also understand that it still retains most of the benefits of the CVT . . . there may be a slight decrease in fuel economy . . . but honestly my wife is getting low to mid 30s for gas mpg which is pretty good in my opinion for an AWD vehicle.
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