Where have all the manual transmissions gone?

moey said:

I do mine about every 15k. We had a 96 accord though that had close to 300k on it that I only did at 100k intervals if that. Those were bullet proof though. Id be hesitant to put in redline synthetic but I admittedly know nothing about it. I swapped a transmission in a 2007 accord about a year ago. Took me about 20 hours spread out over a month. After that work I err on the side of caution perhaps analness. The Honda DW1 which is all you can buy now for ATF for a honda is synthetic the older Honda Z-1 is not. I have read though some folks swear by the redline synthetic. You probably would be better served by adding a better transmission filter to the car they sell some aftermarket ones that are pretty good search for magnefine (http://magnefinefilters.com/) on ebay that is what I have on both our hondas.

Honda has had recalls on transmissions but there are thousands of folks who have gotten 200-300k out of them with little maintenance you always read about the bad not the good. At some point they will fail just like a clutch will need rebuilding.

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Our Pilot called for the old Z1 with a first change at 90 and then every 60. At the time I got it (used) I did a lot of research and many BITOG users reported having better success with Redline D4 (I dont know if DW1 was out yet). Redline tells me D4 is compatible with Honda fluid. the tyranny holds 12qt but a drain fill only changes half. So rather than wait for 90 to do a full flush I did the first drain fill at 60 and then a drain fill every 30 after that. Figure Im changing half the fluid more often so it averages out. And less danger of causing problems that flushing an old auto can do. and much easier to do.

I like redline oils. I also had an Acura manual box with sticky second gear synchros. Redline MTL fixed that like magic

My truck OTOH will get Toyota WS and nothing else. Nobody, not even the BITOG guys knows if there is any synthetic compatible with it. They say lifetime fill... I'm thinking a change every 30-60

Ashful said:

My factory manual still calls out 3000 mile oil changes, for towing use profile, which is what I do. Wife's last three cars have all been spec'd at 10k changes on full synthetic, but always needed topping off at 5k, lest a low oil level sensor light comes on and scares the hell out of you.

Dino fluid is cheap, engines are spendy.

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I agree oil changes are cheap vs engine changes. What I think is funny is techs who try to sell you a 3k change on a car for which the manual says 15k. Ive learned a lot reading stuff in BITOG (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/) . I thought I even saw some article about more recent research actually finding some benefits from longer change intervals....

The Pilot oil life monitor always comes on around 6k... Tacoma still says 5k in the book. So I do 5k on both of them. synthetic.

My MIL civic says 15k but she drives so little miles I change hers once a year based on time. then you have big commercial diesels with ridiculous intervals like 50k. its all over the map.

jharkin said:

Our Pilot called for the old Z1 with a first change at 90 and then every 60. At the time I got it (used) I did a lot of research and many BITOG users reported having better success with Redline D4 (I dont know if DW1 was out yet). Redline tells me D4 is compatible with Honda fluid. the tyranny holds 12qt but a drain fill only changes half. So rather than wait for 90 to do a full flush I did the first drain fill at 60 and then a drain fill every 30 after that. Figure Im changing half the fluid more often so it averages out. And less danger of causing problems that flushing an old auto can do. and much easier to do.

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Sounds like you know this but Honda transmissions should never be flushed the big factory shop manuals even state that in bold. If someplace is going to flush a honda transmission thats a sign to go elsewhere. I don't know what the dealerships do Ive heard of people unhooking the lines from the transmission cooler to get more out of them somehow. I just do the 2 1/2 qt change and keep it fresh like you. We regress I think...

lindnova said:

I chose to change the fluid every 20k and drive through or back into parking spots to minimize cold reverse shifts

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Sounds like my lawn tractor, it usually takes a couple tries getting into gear to go forward - so I usually mow most of the lawn without going in reverse.

firefighterjake said:

but honestly my wife is getting low to mid 30s for gas mpg which is pretty good in my opinion for an AWD vehicle.

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It sure is good, probably about 10 mpg better than my older manual transmission Forester.

moey said:

Sounds like you know this but Honda transmissions should never be flushed the big factory shop manuals even state that in bold. If someplace is going to flush a honda transmission thats a sign to go elsewhere. I don't know what the dealerships do Ive heard of people unhooking the lines from the transmission cooler to get more out of them somehow. I just do the 2 1/2 qt change and keep it fresh like you. We regress I think...

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Yep, I know, I have the factory manual (that thing is heavy ) I thought it had some process for draining out close to the full volume without one of those flushing machines.... but yeah either way I dont do it and just drain/fill (I DIY). Ive heard all the horror stories about flushing trannies causing dirt to get stirred up and into the valve body.

Ashful said:

I'm no expert on this, by any means, but I do know that removing corrosive deposits from the crank case is a substantial consideration in defining oil change intervals. There are lubricants made today that will go well beyond the specified oil change intervals, in terms of viscosity breakdown and other parameters. So, I wonder about 15k mile oil change intervals, in vehicles where you are only accumulating 5k miles per year. I've had dealers argue with me about changing oil under their full maintenance warranty program at less than the specified mileage, when I want the factory-installed oil changed after a year of driving.

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True... and even I am a bit skeptical about going 15k or multiple years... it was just the idea of doing 3k when the book says 15k that seems to much to me (and yes I did note that your car actually calls for 3 in the book, that wasn't what I was referring to). Funny that I just had the opposite argument with my Toyota dealer (since they give me free changes for the first 2 years)... I had only put on ~ 3k in the first 6 months and they kept telling me I needed to change it at 6 months because of the serve schedule.... well my driving is mostly my 15 mile commute so Im not driving much off road or in dusty conditions and almost always drive for 30+ min at a time letting it get up to temp - more like the normal schedule. So i had them to hold off and wait for 5k miles to do the change with was around 8months. My engine has not imploded yet.

Once its out of the free service period all avoid all the arguing and do it myself with synthetic. At 5k or 1 year whichever comes first.

moey said:

The only honda auto tech I have ever talked with always said to change your transmission fluid ( 2.5 qts ) every 10-15k. Much much more often then the manual states. Fortunately its very simple to change. One bolt no filter. Always use the Honda fluid as well.

They did make some sh*t transmissions for quite a few years. Seemed like a roll of the dice as to whether it was a good generation or bad generation transmission.

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Actually never use the Honda fluid on a new rebuild, go with a high quality synthetic fluid instead. The stock Honda fluid does very poor under heavy use or stop and go driving. The only reason to use Honda fluid would be to maintain a factory warranty.

The other thing to do on those years with the poor transmissions is add an additional cooler

jharkin said:

Yep, I know, I have the factory manual (that thing is heavy ) I thought it had some process for draining out close to the full volume without one of those flushing machines.... but yeah either way I dont do it and just drain/fill (I DIY). Ive heard all the horror stories about flushing trannies causing dirt to get stirred up and into the valve body.

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This is generally only the case for people who have neglected to change the transmission fluid on a regular interval. If you've changed the fluid every 50k or less running a flush machine shouldn't cause an issue.

TMonter said:

Actually never use the Honda fluid on a new rebuild, go with a high quality synthetic fluid instead. The stock Honda fluid does very poor under heavy use or stop and go driving. The only reason to use Honda fluid would be to maintain a factory warranty.

The other thing to do on those years with the poor transmissions is add an additional cooler

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Honda ATF is synthetic it has been for 5 or so years.

TMonter said:

This is generally only the case for people who have neglected to change the transmission fluid on a regular interval. If you've changed the fluid every 50k or less running a flush machine shouldn't cause an issue.

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Its also what Honda engineers are very emphatic about not flushing.

It's funny I found this thread. I have been casually looking for a new half ton crew cab with a manual transmission. Based on what I can find, I don't think a manual is going to happen.

moey said:

Honda ATF is synthetic it has been for 5 or so years.

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Yes but they still used the older non-synthetic fluid on older transmissions or did up until about 4 years ago. That may have changed recently.

In late 2010, the local Honda dealer wanted $4200 dollars for a transmission rebuild on the wife's Odyssey and they weren't even going to put a cooler and synthetic transmission fluid in it. I had a guy who has been doing transmissions for 40 years and has done a couple dozen of these transmissions do the work, put all OEM parts and an extra cooler and full synthetic fluid with a 60k warranty for a grand less. The last transmission failed at 109k and the new one has 50k on it so we'll see how it goes, but no particles in the fluid changes so far.

TommyTally said:

It's funny I found this thread. I have been casually looking for a new half ton crew cab with a manual transmission. Based on what I can find, I don't think a manual is going to happen

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The closest thing to it would be a 2015 Chevy Colorado, but it must be a base extended cab 2WD model with the 2.5L 4 cylinder. A road test reviewer said that drivetrain was adequate - doesn't surprise me because the 2.5L puts out about as much power (but probably not torque) as the 4.3 V6 did several years ago. If I was to go 2WD I could see going with the 2.5 and the manual. They should have offered a longer bed option, longest length is 6'2".

Too bad the manual isn't offered with 4WD, that would probably require the V6. A couple times this past winter I obtained firewood at places with snow on the ground, I suppose I might have made it out ok loaded with wood, but likely would have had trouble empty going up a slight incline with just 2WD.

TommyTally said:

It's funny I found this thread. I have been casually looking for a new half ton crew cab with a manual transmission. Based on what I can find, I don't think a manual is going to happen.

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You've got to be kidding me. No manual transmission option for the primary medium-duty vehicle on the market?

jharkin said:

The Pilot oil life monitor always comes on around 6k... Tacoma still says 5k in the book. So I do 5k on both of them. synthetic.

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As far as I've been able to find out, oil life monitor is a slight misnomer. It doesn't actually monitor the oil, which would require some fairly sophisticated measurements. It monitors the engine operating conditions (temperatures, RPM, etc), and predicts the oil life based on the manufacturer testing and what they expect drivers are typically using. I've heard that used oil analyses indicate the monitors are pretty accurate if you're using the minimum specified oil, but if you're using a high quality synthetic, the oil generally has a fair amount of life left in it when the monitor says it's time to change the oil.

jharkin said:

My MIL civic says 15k but she drives so little miles I change hers once a year based on time. then you have big commercial diesels with ridiculous intervals like 50k. its all over the map

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A once a year minimum regardless of miles seems like a decent policy. At worst, you're wasting a small amount of the useful life of the oil, but not enough to feel bad about. I think most manuals still make a recommendation of "X miles or Y months, whichever comes first."

Different use cases result in different oil lives. Your all-over-the-map observation isn't random, but generally based on what the manufacturer has found in their long-term testing. Commercial trucks typically get driven differently (mostly highway miles) and usually have proportionately larger oil capacities and better filters. That these intervals do work is well attested by the fact that trucks with 1 million+ miles on them are not uncommon.

Here's a similar data point from a guy who ran 39,000 mostly highway miles on an Amsoil synthetic and an after-market filter modification (similar to what commercial trucks usually have). He sent the used oil to a lab for analysis. Their tests indicated he actually could have run a little longer without an issue, and that his custom filter setup was doing a good job of keeping metal wear particles from recirculating through his engine.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2289228

Granted, he added over a full change worth of make-up oil in between changes to replace what burned off, but his 1 quart per 7,000 miles of oil consumption is not at all unusual for a Honda.

Ashful said:

Interesting that my thread commiserating the demise of manual transmissions has turned into two pages of people talking about AUTOMATIC transmission fluid.

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Ashful said:

Wife's last three cars have all been spec'd at 10k changes on full synthetic, but always needed topping off at 5k, lest a low oil level sensor light comes on and scares the hell out of you.

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My wifes 5.3 Yukon engine has the same oil monitor and the "low oil" warning message comes on when the oil level reaches the low end of the normal range on the dipstick. Freaked me out the first time too but it's not the same as a low oil pressure idiot light. I actually much prefer a low oil level light to come on before a loss of oil pressure but at first I thought they were the same!

I can swap a manual 6 speed to my F350 diesel for less money than replacing the auto trans. Not worth the hassle though with all the computers and instrucment cluster revisions. With a proper shift kit (programming) the auto trans can be made pretty dang pleasant to drive.

Stelcom66 said:

The closest thing to it would be a 2015 Chevy Colorado, but it must be a base extended cab 2WD model with the 2.5L 4 cylinder. A road test reviewer said that drivetrain was adequate - doesn't surprise me because the 2.5L puts out about as much power (but probably not torque) as the 4.3 V6 did several years ago. If I was to go 2WD I could see going with the 2.5 and the manual. They should have offered a longer bed option, longest length is 6'2".

Too bad the manual isn't offered with 4WD, that would probably require the V6. A couple times this past winter I obtained firewood at places with snow on the ground, I suppose I might have made it out ok loaded with wood, but likely would have had trouble empty going up a slight incline with just 2WD.

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I really need the 4WD based on where we live. Too much snow and too many hills to get away RWD only. I looked at the Colorado, but I don't think it came with the manual in the V6 application IIRC.

iamlucky13 said:

You've got to be kidding me. No manual transmission option for the primary medium-duty vehicle on the market?

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If you find one, let me know.

TommyTally said:

If you find one, let me know.

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x2

I always said i'd never get an automatic. I like to actually "drive" my car....but i think technology has come a long way and the autos ive driven recently are far from what they were 10 years ago...

TommyTally said:

If you find one, let me know.

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I hadn't been looking.

But I know I will be replacing my current car in a few years, and if you can't even find a 1/2 ton pickup with a manual, then I have to expect finding a passenger car with a manual will be nearly impossible. Not to mention, I occasionally consider getting a pickup.

There are still a handful of cars with manuals. Ford Fiesta, Focus, and Mustang for instance.