I'm not making any friends.

Prof · May 31, 2015

So I'm out stacking wood when a neighbor stops by. He shares that he heats with an "old stove." Then with some excitement, he says "Hey, what are you doing, that looks like hemlock.!" I confirm that it is. He went on to tell me at length why I can't burn any pine in a stove--the too much creosote speech. I acknowledged that I grew up believing that, but then went on to reference the EPA tests as well as the numerous discussions on this forum. He continues to get more agitated. I let him know that I just cleaned the chimney this week and the creosote didn't even fill an old pint jar. He went on to say that his "pipe is completely blocked," and he only burns good wood. I joked that he should burn some hemlock. I resisted telling him that hemlock is not pine. I did try to talk about the necessity of wood being seasoned for about a year, more in some cases. He wasn't having it and walked away saying that I wouldn't listen to reason. I got along better with relatives and neighbors before joining this forum!

claydogg84 · May 31, 2015

I've called a few friends ignorant after trying to explain this sort of thing to them.

BrotherBart · May 31, 2015

I never even have the conversation with the guys in the hood that have been burning wood as long as I have. Ain't worth the argument. One has his delivered in September for that Winter, one cuts in the Summer for the coming Winter and the other one cuts in September and splits as he needs it all Winter long. All red and white oak.

They all have less than five year old EPA stoves and cuss them because they aren't as good as their old ones.

PA. Woodsman · May 31, 2015

Prof said:
I resisted telling him that hemlock is not pine.

I must be missing something here......

Prof · May 31, 2015

PA. Woodsman said:
I must be missing something here......

I guess hemlock is technically in the pine family, but I was referring to the absence of pitch with hemlock, which most people mistakenly associate with creosote problems.

firefighterjake · Jun 1, 2015

PA. Woodsman said:
I must be missing something here......

Because pine is pine and hemlock is hemlock . . . both in the evergreen "family" (or class, order or what have you) . . . but it would be like saying a Swede in Sweden is the same as an Italian in Italy . . . I mean they're both Caucasian and have some similarities, but also have many differences . . . or like saying a Chevy Volt is the same as a Chevy Corvette -- they're both cars in the same "family" (manufacturer), but still quite different.

blades · Jun 1, 2015

both are conifers, if you are looking for the overall family name

maple1 · Jun 1, 2015

PA. Woodsman said:
I must be missing something here......

What are we missing?

kennyp2339 · Jun 1, 2015

What gives pine, hemlock, soft wood in general a bad rap is most people burn it after they run out of there "good stuff" Usually there good stuff really isn't that good, there chimney's get clogged up, they get use to running there stoves at higher air settings, then they throw some soft wood in and poof ... big bad chimney fire.

Woody Stover · Jun 1, 2015

BrotherBart said:
I never even have the conversation with the guys in the hood that have been burning wood as long as I have. Ain't worth the argument. One has his delivered in September for that Winter, one cuts in the Summer for the coming Winter and the other one cuts in September and splits as he needs it all Winter long. All red and white oak.

It would be worth it to me to try to get them up to speed, if I had to choke down the effluent from three smokers in the 'hood.

They all have less than five year old EPA stoves and cuss them because they aren't as good as their old ones.

I guess you've mentioned to them that they can get more heat with dry wood, and burn a lot less wood in the bargain....what do they say to that?

PA. Woodsman · Jun 1, 2015

Prof said:
I guess hemlock is technically in the pine family, but I was referring to the absence of pitch with hemlock, which most people mistakenly associate with creosote problems.

firefighterjake said:
Because pine is pine and hemlock is hemlock . . . both in the evergreen "family" (or class, order or what have you) . . . but it would be like saying a Swede in Sweden is the same as an Italian in Italy . . . I mean they're both Caucasian and have some similarities, but also have many differences . . . or like saying a Chevy Volt is the same as a Chevy Corvette -- they're both cars in the same "family" (manufacturer), but still quite different.

Okay thanks guys for the explanations...can you tell I don't burn Pine? ;lol

DougA · Jun 1, 2015

I'm not making any friends.
A few decades ago, I became so smart that all my friends left. Now it's just me & my stove. :rolleyes:

sportbikerider78 · Jun 1, 2015

When people get agitated over silly things that don't matter if they know the truth or not, I just put on a really big stupid grin and do lots of nodding. If they keep it up, I start talking about their personal life. That always kills the conversation.

Them: Hey is that pin yer burning over there?

Me: Say, I heard you and the Mrs arguing the other day...how is your drinking?

HarvestMan · Jun 1, 2015

My neighbor just got a nice load of rounds for next winter. It will sit outside on the ground until they need to build a fire. Then, they will split it, bring it in the house so they can start a fire. Yep, all of it is freshly cut red oak. It was rather entertaining to watch them split frozen and snow covered rounds last winter. Can only imagine how well those burned.

Yep, had the conversation with him already ... like talking to a wall.

Prof · Jun 1, 2015

I've had small successes: A guy I work with will burn pine now. He checks everything with a moisture meter. He has a Stihl chainsaw and a Fiskars. Of course, he still burns in an open fireplace :-( I almost have him talked into chainsaw chaps.

Andy S. · Jun 1, 2015

One of the first and most useful things I learned here was that Pine will not burn my house down. Since some of my wood is shared with family I shared what I learned here about the importance of dry wood with everyone, was told I'm crazy to burn Pine and simply let it go at that. Every bit of the Pine we've had dropped off for free by a tree service is stacked by itself for my use so they don't have to worry about burning it. I've got shoulder seasons covered way into the future and making good use of Pine this past season allowed me to give most of my marginal premium wood another season. No arguments needed. They know what they know and seem content to know it. I am, too.

iamlucky13 · Jun 1, 2015

The following should make the "is hemlock pine" question clear as mud:

Hemlock actually is pine, but it is not pine. This relates to the Kingdom > Phylum > Class > Order > Family > Genus > Species naming system you may remember from high school biology.

The family pinaceae (pines) includes several genera (plural of genus). Hemlocks (genus: tsuga) are part of that family. So are the trees we normally call pines (genus: pinus). It also includes spruces, larches, firs, and the true cedars.*

So a hemlock (tsuga) is a pine (pinaceae), but not a pine (pinus). A ponderosa is both a pine (pinaceae) and a pine (pinus).

Since that's probably too much Latin to remember, just remember the term pine as being like both an immediate family and an extended family name, so while the brothers and sisters share the pine name, the cousins often have different names like hemlock.

* Cedars throw more confusion into learning common vs. scientific names. True cedars and false cedars share a lot of similarity in appearance and wood properties, but are thought to not be closely related genetically. As far as I know, everything native to North America that we refer to as a cedar is actually in the cypress family.

Cypress forms its own family (cupressaceae), so a cypress is not a pine. Most of the conifers in the world are either cypresses or pines, with yews placing third, I think.

HarvestMan · Jun 1, 2015

iamlucky13 said:
The following should make the "is hemlock pine" question clear as mud:

Hemlock actually is pine, but it is not pine. This relates to the Kingdom > Phylum > Class > Order > Family > Genus > Species naming system you may remember from high school biology.

The family pinaceae (pines) includes several genera (plural of genus). Hemlocks (genus: tsuga) are part of that family. So are the trees we normally call pines (genus: pinus). It also includes spruces, larches, firs, and the true cedars.*

So a hemlock (tsuga) is a pine (pinaceae), but not a pine (pinus). A ponderosa is both a pine (pinaceae) and a pine (pinus).

Since that's probably too much Latin to remember, just remember the term pine as being like both an immediate family and an extended family name, so while the brothers and sisters share the pine name, the cousins often have different names like hemlock.

* Cedars throw more confusion into learning common vs. scientific names. True cedars and false cedars share a lot of similarity in appearance and wood properties, but are thought to not be closely related genetically. As far as I know, everything native to North America that we refer to as a cedar is actually in the cypress family.

Cypress forms its own family (cupressaceae), so a cypress is not a pine. Most of the conifers in the world are either cypresses or pines, with yews placing third, I think.

You forgot the picture

DougA · Jun 1, 2015

Prof said:
I almost have him talked into chainsaw chaps.

I don't use chaps. It gives your jeans that worn look real fast when you nick them with the chain running.

Seanm · Jun 2, 2015

Yeah its like calling a brook trout a trout when its actually a char but everyone calls it a trout or calling a bull trout a dolly varden which is actually a char but an ocean run trout, err a ocean run char and lets not forget those old timers who call a rocky mountain whitefish a grayling which it is not.... When the op started I was opening my mouth but shut it when he mentioned the difference between the hemlock and pine. What iamlucky is saying makes sense to me. I like to distinguish between coniferous and deciduous and just like deciduous trees there is a huge swing in btu output, poplar to ironwood for example. To me a lodgepole pine is different from a white pine which is different from a ponderosa pine. A fir is different from a larch which is different from a cedar but all are coniferous. Only here can we split hairs about trees! My friends think im nuts that I find this stuff so interesting!

Jags · Jun 2, 2015

iamlucky13 said:
The following should make the "is hemlock pine" question clear as mud:

My definition is easier to remember...
Does it have needles? Or is it a leaf tree?
;lol

DougA · Jun 2, 2015

... but then I've got trees with needles that are deciduous.
Wiki: Deciduous means "falling off at maturity" or "tending to fall off", and it is typically used in order to refer to trees or shrubs that lose their leaves seasonally.

Jags · Jun 2, 2015

I think that is called "needle cast disease".

Wood Duck · Jun 2, 2015

I hear all the time that you can't burn pine or conifers. Fortunately I use to live in a cabin in Alaska with a wood burning stove, so I can reply that in Alaska I burned and everyone burns 'pine.' I go on the say that in fact in Fairbanks it is too cold (or the ice age happened too recently) for pine to grow, so we burn Spruce. And also Birch, which is what everyone prefers up there, but you can't always get enough birch so we burned spruce and birch, but I don't mention the birch because I am making a point.

I also mention that my stove is newfangled and burns up the volatile gases from conifers, including the creosote which people claim is in pine.

firefighterjake · Jun 2, 2015

Jags said:
My definition is easier to remember...
Does it have needles? Or is it a leaf tree?

But what about cedar . . . not really needles . . . not really leafs.

I'm not making any friends.

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Modesterator

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Burning Hunk

Minister of Fire

Feeling the Heat

Minister of Fire

Burning Hunk

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Moderate Moderator

Minister of Fire

Moderate Moderator

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Similar threads