Electrical advice wanted

Archie · Jun 14, 2015

My kitchen is getting a redo starting this coming Tuesday. Demo comes first, and that will result in (1) stove hood / vent going away, and (2) garbage disposal going away. Both these items are on circuits that include other loads around the house, so just shutting down the entire circuit isn't really an option. And it may be anywhere from a couple of days to a week before new install takes place for these two items. So my question is: How do I keep these unattached live wires safe while waiting for new installation?

I know I'm late in the game to be asking such a basic question. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

claydogg84 · Jun 14, 2015

Shut off the circuit and screw on cap nuts on any bare wires. If you want to be even more safe, wrap them in electrical tape.

Archie · Jun 14, 2015

claydogg84 said:
Shut off the circuit and screw on cap nuts on any bare wires. If you want to be even more safe, wrap them in electrical tape.

So, both hot and neutral - - screw them together in the same wire nut? Not sure what I'm going to find when demo gets underway. Should I include the ground wire too?

claydogg84 · Jun 14, 2015

Archie said:
So, both hot and neutral - - screw them together in the same wire nut? Not sure what I'm going to find when demo gets underway. Should I include the ground wire too?

For the sake of not being sure what you're doing completely I would be safe and cap every bare wire. Do not combine wires. 1 wire, 1 nut.

Dr.Faustus · Jun 14, 2015

oh definitely dont combine the wires in 1 nut, you will cause a direct short and pop the breaker in a hurry. just cap each wire off in its own nut with its own electrical tape. if you arent going to replace those appliances, they need to go into a work box that will remain accessible even when the work is completed. rewiring the circuit from the breaker not to include these splices is another option if you dont want visible blank plates. your other option is to convert them into outlets. you'll see them but at least they have a use.

Archie · Jun 14, 2015

Thanks. This is one of those situations that isn't covered in any of my DIY books.

Archie · Jun 14, 2015

Dr.Faustus said:
oh definitely dont combine the wires in 1 nut, you will cause a direct short and pop the breaker in a hurry. just cap each wire off in its own nut with its own electrical tape. if you arent going to replace those appliances, they need to go into a work box that will remain accessible even when the work is completed. rewiring the circuit from the breaker not to include these splices is another option if you dont want visible blank plates. your other option is to convert them into outlets. you'll see them but at least they have a use.

Thanks. These items will be replaced, but I want everything safe for a few days or a week. It's nice to hear the same advice. It'll help me sleep at night.

gzecc · Jun 14, 2015

If your going to be involved in working on any electric in your own house, you need to at least read a home electrical book. Nothing to wing. You could burn the place down or kill yourself or someone else.

Jags · Jun 15, 2015

Fire and electricity can kill you. Water makes you wet. As with proper install of a heating appliance for safety reasons, electricity is every bit as important to do correctly. Please, Please be very cautious. Common 120V kills more people per year than the 220V coming into your house does.

begreen · Jun 15, 2015

Use electrical tape to securely tape the wire nuts on each of the two wires on the vent and on the disposal. If this is the full extent of your electrical operation it should be relatively safe. However, it you are interrupting other circuits in the kitchen you may want to bring in an electrician. Sometimes kitchens will have circuits with two hots and a common neutral. If so there will be 220v between the hot wires.

Warm_in_NH · Jun 15, 2015

Like they said above, and if you're going to have any open plumbing drains, stuff rags in those too. Electricity kills, water only makes you wet, but sewer gasses will really mess you up too!

fbelec · Jun 27, 2015

and when it's time to reinstall code states disposal gets it's own circuit. stove and hood can't be tapped of the 2 circuits that take care of the counter top outlets. if putting in a microwave above the stove that will need a separate circuit also. and any circuit in a kitchen is to be 20 amp with arc fault protection and gfi on the outlets.

flyingcow · Jun 27, 2015

Test all circuits. Learn how to read a meter. Stray voltage....crappy junctions, poor connections, etc.

BTW, i don't know how to read a meter. So If i was you, see if you can find an electrician (licensed) to do a few hours of investigating. check out each circuit. Some new appliances are sensitive. Might work OK the first few months, but then the Gremlins creep into play. Plus rewiring occurs as time goes on in a house. Not all circuits go where you think. Or go where they should. And occasionally old breakers don't trip as quick as they should. Sometimes they don't trip until the smoke and sparks are rolling.

jeffesonm · Jul 1, 2015

Buy yourself a non contact voltage tester like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-1AC-A1-...&sr=8-2&keywords=non+contact+voltage+detector

It is super simple... touch it against a wire and it beeps if there's electricity. I always use mine to test wires before touching them. Even if I just shut off the breaker, I like to be double super sure.

Also this is a pretty good book on basic electrical stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-House-...qid=1435769279&sr=1-2&keywords=wiring+a+house

I started out knowing nothing and I've since installed a few circuits, replaced a hot water heater and am in the process of doing a sub panel. Take it slow and don't hesitate to ask questions, even if they seem stupid or basic. The concepts of electrical work are pretty straightforward, but there are a million little code rules that can trip you up.

Archie · Jul 2, 2015

Thanks for all the great advice; I've learned a few things and that's a plus. Apologies for not responding sooner, but the renovation has been on-going the past couple of weeks, and then there's work, family, and all that. Everything has gone well and the kitchen is done with no serious (physical) side effects (going 2 weeks without countertops, dishwasher and sink/water is interesting, but we managed). The garbage disposal is on a dedicated circuit, which I should have known prior to my original post, so that was a non-issue. Thanks again for all the replies.

Archie · Jul 2, 2015

Jags said:
Fire and electricity can kill you. Water makes you wet. As with proper install of a heating appliance for safety reasons, electricity is every bit as important to do correctly. Please, Please be very cautious. Common 120V kills more people per year than the 220V coming into your house does.

Agree 100%. I've done some basic electrical work before, but had not run across this situation before. Typical DIY I guess. I don't hesitate to call in a pro when I'm not comfortable.

Archie · Jul 2, 2015

begreen said:
Use electrical tape to securely tape the wire nuts on each of the two wires on the vent and on the disposal. If this is the full extent of your electrical operation it should be relatively safe. However, it you are interrupting other circuits in the kitchen you may want to bring in an electrician. Sometimes kitchens will have circuits with two hots and a common neutral. If so there will be 220v between the hot wires.

Definitely used the tape in addition to capping off. The circuit for the stove vent also feeds outlets in the family room, so there was some internet/TV downtime until the vent wiring was capped off. Small blessing.

Archie · Jul 2, 2015

Warm_in_NH said:
Like they said above, and if you're going to have any open plumbing drains, stuff rags in those too. Electricity kills, water only makes you wet, but sewer gasses will really mess you up too!

Amen to that. It only took about 10 minutes to figure out what that new odor was. It wasn't the new cabinets, thankfully.

Archie · Jul 2, 2015

fbelec said:
and when it's time to reinstall code states disposal gets it's own circuit. stove and hood can't be tapped of the 2 circuits that take care of the counter top outlets. if putting in a microwave above the stove that will need a separate circuit also. and any circuit in a kitchen is to be 20 amp with arc fault protection and gfi on the outlets.

The disposal is on its own circuit, which I failed to mention in my original post, so that was easy. The stove is also on its own circuit, but the hood vent is on a circuit that is shared with outlets in the family room (but not the kitchen), so that was an issue. We're still using an old fashioned stand-alone microwave (our kitchen will never be a dream kitchen without tearing walls down; that wasn't going to happen with this project). Our house is 30+ yrs old, so the kitchen and bath gfci protection is at the box in the basement, not at the outlet location. I'll update that over time if needed. Thanks for your advice.

Archie · Jul 2, 2015

flyingcow said:
Test all circuits. Learn how to read a meter. Stray voltage....crappy junctions, poor connections, etc.

BTW, i don't know how to read a meter. So If i was you, see if you can find an electrician (licensed) to do a few hours of investigating. check out each circuit. Some new appliances are sensitive. Might work OK the first few months, but then the Gremlins creep into play. Plus rewiring occurs as time goes on in a house. Not all circuits go where you think. Or go where they should. And occasionally old breakers don't trip as quick as they should. Sometimes they don't trip until the smoke and sparks are rolling.

I've got instruments to show whether a circuit is hot or not, and for outlets to show whether the connection has been made correctly, e.g., grounded. If I need a meter, I'm out of my depth and will call in a pro. But good advice nonetheless.

Archie · Jul 2, 2015

jeffesonm said:
Buy yourself a non contact voltage tester like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-1AC-A1-II-VoltAlert-Non-Contact-Voltage/dp/B000EJ332O/ref=sr_1_2?die=UTF8&qid=1435769201&sr=8-2&keywords=non contact voltage detector

It is super simple... touch it against a wire and it beeps if there's electricity. I always use mine to test wires before touching them. Even if I just shut off the breaker, I like to be double super sure.

Also this is a pretty good book on basic electrical stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-House-5th-Pros/dp/1561585270/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1435769279&sr=1-2&keywords=wiring a house

I started out knowing nothing and I've since installed a few circuits, replaced a hot water heater and am in the process of doing a sub panel. Take it slow and don't hesitate to ask questions, even if they seem stupid or basic. The concepts of electrical work are pretty straightforward, but there are a million little code rules that can trip you up.

My voltage tester just glows (no beep), and like you, I always test even with the circuit off (and the switch!). I like safety. Thanks for the link for the book.

Lockpicker · Jul 5, 2015

If you don't know how to wire nut and tape wires I STRONGLY suggest you get an electrician. Looking for electrical advice on a wood stove web site is already a step in the wrong direction.

hoverwheel · Jul 5, 2015

Archie said:
So, both hot and neutral - - screw them together in the same wire nut? Not sure what I'm going to find when demo gets underway. Should I include the ground wire too?

Well that's one way of ensuring the circuit breaker stays off LOL

However, I suggest following the recommendation someone made of, one wire, one nut. There are three, sometimes four individual wires bundled in cloth or plastic sheath (depending on just how old the kitchen is). Each one gets cut, capped and taped individually.

If the wires are skinny and pinched in ceramic knobs nailed to the studs, same, just there is only the one wire in the "wire".

fbelec · Jul 8, 2015

Lockpicker said:
If you don't know how to wire nut and tape wires I STRONGLY suggest you get an electrician. Looking for electrical advice on a wood stove web site is already a step in the wrong direction.

i agree with the first part about not knowing how to put on a wirenut but second part is not always the case. i've been a master electrician almost 30 years. but i do hear what your saying

Archie · Jul 8, 2015

Lockpicker said:
If you don't know how to wire nut and tape wires I STRONGLY suggest you get an electrician. Looking for electrical advice on a wood stove web site is already a step in the wrong direction.

I know how to do that, have done it many times. Just have never been in a situation where a device will be out of service for a long period of time, but the circuit needs to stay on to serve other devices. You may have noticed the name of this forum isn't about wood. I've received good advice on hearth.com several times about things other than wood. In fact, I'm getting ready to post one about sunflowers

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