Sharpening a Full Chisel Chain

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KenLockett

KenLockett

Minister of Fire
Dec 27, 2011
580
Eastern Upstate NY
Finally ordered a Full Chisel Chain from Woodland Pro for my Husqvarna 450. Well, decided to do a quick sharpening after about two tanks of gas and using the recommended 3/16 round file and the prescribed angles I struggled getting the file (new stihl file) through (thought maybe the rakers initially a little high on new chain???) but eventually able to get an edge (two strokes per tooth). Ran another two tanks and got into a little (very little) dirt on some dragged logs and dulled a little so decided to lightly sharpen again (maybe two strokes per teeth like before). Well this time I just couldn't get the file though the tooth. Almost like way too much bite on the file. Never had this problem with semi-chisel chains. Am I doing something wrong? Have actually become very proficient at sharpening but this has me stumped. Have heard that sometimes full chisel chains can be sharpened with flat file. Any thoughts and or advice on how this is done? Woodland pro suggests using round file and I am at the correct angles. No mention of using flat file so that was just a thought based upon some of my earlier post reviews. On another note, the chips from the full chisel chain have been very ragged from day one. Not the nice smaller uniform chips that the semi-chisel chain put out. Any advice/thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken
 
Ken, a few thoughts:
Could be just that you've got a new chain and new file and that you're establishing new file groove for this combination ? Your recommended angles might be off slightly from new factory chain too.
Make sure you've got the right size file for the pitch of chain. The Husky 450 should be running a .325" pitch chain; if so, a 3/16" file is correct (size should be stamped on file). I have a Stihl MS 260 (also a .325" pitch) and have run both round-file, full chisel chain; and semi-chisel, but hadn't noticed a difference in feel with round file full chisel v. the semi-chisel when sharpening. I alternate sharpening between Timberline, and the Pferd CS-X Chain Sharp Filing Guide, which also simultaneously files the depth gauge.
Also, I think you might be confusing full chisel round-file with full chisel square-grind, which uses a chisel-bit file - http://www.saveedge.com/index.html.
Madsen's is a good chain saw reference: http://www.madsens1.com/index.html
 
Was the chain square ground from store? As cincy said will take some time to develope round filed contact shaped pocket.

Not to be smart ass but i have to ask, filing inside to outside right?

Full chisel is fun with green clean wood but with even windblown dirt in bark or grown into the wood takes the corner to quick for me. I went back to almost all semi chisel chain.
 
1. The first couple sharpening strokes of a new chain often are a tad more difficult than successive strokes. Don't be afraid to make more strokes, say 4 to 6 or more, to get it started. As with Stihl chain, Woodland Pro chain also has a reputation of being harder than standard Oregon/Husqvarna chain, so the first couple strokes surely will be more difficult.

2. I'm not sure of what the top plate angle for Woodland Pro chain is from the factory, but make sure that you are matching it. For example: Stihl top plate angles are factory ground at 30* and not the 25* typically found on new Oregon/Husqvarna chains. If you want something different than the factory angle, file away!

3. Are you using a file guide? Note that not all file guides are compatible with other brands of chain. Sometimes even semi-chisel vs. full chisel matters, as there are different File-O-Plates for those two different shapes.
 
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If I get a chain really dull from hitting a rock or similar, I forgo hand filing and have it sharpened on a chain grinder.
 
kevin j said:
Was the chain square ground from store? As cincy said will take some time to develope round filed contact shaped pocket.

Not to be smart ass but i have to ask, filing inside to outside right?

Full chisel is fun with green clean wood but with even windblown dirt in bark or grown into the wood takes the corner to quick for me. I went back to almost all semi chisel chain.
Click to expand...
No problem. Yes sharpening inside to outside right.
 
kevin j said:
Was the chain square ground from store? As cincy said will take some time to develope round filed contact shaped pocket.

Not to be smart ass but i have to ask, filing inside to outside right?

Full chisel is fun with green clean wood but with even windblown dirt in bark or grown into the wood takes the corner to quick for me. I went back to almost all semi chisel chain.
Click to expand...
Looks to be round shaped.
 
TreePointer said:
1. The first couple sharpening strokes of a new chain often are a tad more difficult than successive strokes. Don't be afraid to make more strokes, say 4 to 6 or more, to get it started. As with Stihl chain, Woodland Pro chain also has a reputation of being harder than standard Oregon/Husqvarna chain, so the first couple strokes surely will be more difficult.

2. I'm not sure of what the top plate angle for Woodland Pro chain is from the factory, but make sure that you are matching it. For example: Stihl top plate angles are factory ground at 30* and not the 25* typically found on new Oregon/Husqvarna chains. If you want something different than the factory angle, file away!

3. Are you using a file guide? Note that not all file guides are compatible with other brands of chain. Sometimes even semi-chisel vs. full chisel matters, as there are different File-O-Plates for those two different shapes.
Click to expand...
Yeah just very hard to get the file moving in the tooth. Yes matching top plate angle. Tried starting with my Stihl file guide but didn't seem to lay correctly so I am carefully sharpening just with my file with handle. Will give it another go tonight fixing bar in my shop vise for more leverage. Normally sharpen on my bench in the barn using stump vise only.
 
I put the saw in my fixed shop vise and the sharpening was a breeze not to mention allowing me to be much more methodical compared to doing it in the field with a stump vise. Better light too. Ultimately it would appear that the Woodland Pro chain has a harder steel than the chains I have used and sharpened in the past or simply harder in the full chisel variety. Thanks guys for the help.

On another note, met a woman Monday that mentioned she had a guy come cut some trees for her to clear path for satellite and he cut the trees but didn't finish the clean-up (literally removing the downed trees - about a days worth of work) and charged her. I suggested that I would help her cut trees (and remove the leftovers from this cut) at no charge, just the wood in payment. She was very enthusiastic and mentioned that she had a 36 acre parcel that she wanted clearing for a future house. Well went out to look today and she said have at it and is even providing me a key for the gate. She is a very nice older lady and the stands of hardwood are very impressive consisting of black cherry, shag bark hickory, and maple among others from what I could tell. This is going to keep me busy for a while. I have so much opportunity on many properties but so little time. These particular trees will be easy drops and easy collection.
 
KenLockett said:
I put the saw in my fixed shop vise and the sharpening was a breeze not to mention allowing me to be much more methodical compared to doing it in the field with a stump vise. Better light too. Ultimately it would appear that the Woodland Pro chain has a harder steel than the chains I have used and sharpened in the past or simply harder in the full chisel variety. Thanks guys for the help.

On another note, met a woman Monday that mentioned she had a guy come cut some trees for her to clear path for satellite and he cut the trees but didn't finish the clean-up (literally removing the downed trees - about a days worth of work) and charged her. I suggested that I would help her cut trees (and remove the leftovers from this cut) at no charge, just the wood in payment. She was very enthusiastic and mentioned that she had a 36 acre parcel that she wanted clearing for a future house. Well went out to look today and she said have at it and is even providing me a key for the gate. She is a very nice older lady and the stands of hardwood are very impressive consisting of black cherry, shag bark hickory, and maple among others from what I could tell. This is going to keep me busy for a while. I have so much opportunity on many properties but so little time. These particular trees will be easy drops and easy collection.
Click to expand...

Same with me--I always did a better job in a shop vise than a stump vise.

If a decent portion of her land is forested, I'd consider having her get a forester out there to have a look at it before I cut anything. The reason I bring this up is that if she later learns that some good money could have been made on some of those trees in a timber harvest, she might be upset that some went for firewood. A forester can mark trees to go for firewood (it takes a lot of responsibility off you). And if she has a harvest, you'll still have more wood than you can handle when she allows you to process the remaining treetops, and the logging co. will leave nice paths for you to use. ;)

I don't know about NY, but in PA, you can get a state forester to stop by to take a look at it free! They'll tell you about the quality and health of the forest and give give tips for management.
 
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I think I maybe was a little unclear on the parcel mentioned above. She owns 36 acres but what she want's cleared is not the full parcel but an area in a clearing where she want's to put a modular home. There are probably no more than a dozen trees (albeit nice ones) that she wants taken down to clear the area. Would hardly be worth the time an effort of a logger for the timber and I for one have seen the damage that some of these guys cause when they go in. Just going to take my time and do it very cleanly and with consideration as I told her I would.
 
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KenLockett said:
I put the saw in my fixed shop vise and the sharpening was a breeze not to mention allowing me to be much more methodical compared to doing it in the field with a stump vise. Better light too. Ultimately it would appear that the Woodland Pro chain has a harder steel than the chains I have used and sharpened in the past or simply harder in the full chisel variety. Thanks guys for the help.

On another note, met a woman Monday that mentioned she had a guy come cut some trees for her to clear path for satellite and he cut the trees but didn't finish the clean-up (literally removing the downed trees - about a days worth of work) and charged her. I suggested that I would help her cut trees (and remove the leftovers from this cut) at no charge, just the wood in payment. She was very enthusiastic and mentioned that she had a 36 acre parcel that she wanted clearing for a future house. Well went out to look today and she said have at it and is even providing me a key for the gate. She is a very nice older lady and the stands of hardwood are very impressive consisting of black cherry, shag bark hickory, and maple among others from what I could tell. This is going to keep me busy for a while. I have so much opportunity on many properties but so little time. These particular trees will be easy drops and easy collection.
Click to expand...
I think I would suggest a logger to her and cut the trash or cull trees and tops they leave.

Maybe she doesnt realize its worth money...or maybe there small.
I couldnt cut someones valuable timber up into firewood. My conscious wouldnt let me do it.
 
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TreePointer said:
Same with me--I always did a better job in a shop vise than a stump vise.

If a decent portion of her land is forested, I'd consider having her get a forester out there to have a look at it before I cut anything. The reason I bring this up is that if she later learns that some good money could have been made on some of those trees in a timber harvest, she might be upset that some went for firewood. A forester can mark trees to go for firewood (it takes a lot of responsibility off you). And if she has a harvest, you'll still have more wood than you can handle when she allows you to process the remaining treetops, and the logging co. will leave nice paths for you to use. ;)

I don't know about NY, but in PA, you can get a state forester to stop by to take a look at it free! They'll tell you about the quality and health of the forest and give give tips for management.
Click to expand...
We think alike..I am a forester which is why I think like that.


I see though the OP says its just a small portion that she wants cut and that she does not want loggers do to residual damage they can leave ...which I also understand.
 
Oh forgot to say what I meant to say. Maybe its just sharp new files? Semi and full should sharpen the same way. They do pull some big ragged chips when sharpened right. I use a grinder exclusively these days. I dont take the time to file.
 
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