So just curious I'm far from an expert but do you have return water temp protection? Even seasoned wood has some moisture in it and coolness in the firebox can cause the moisture to collect.
E Classic 2400 Probs
- Thread starter The Weimar
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
I do have return water temp protection, set at about 135f. The problems with the firebox are not moisture related, I promise. This is strictly a poor quality and/or wrong type of material used in the construction of the spot that needed the best quality of materials. 1/8" carbon steel is no good for a wood furnace, or anything that is going to have fire near it for any amount of time, especially extended periods. I am also starting to think that the circulation of the water throughout the furnace does not happen consistently, allowing for some 'hotspots', resulting in the flame corrosion that I am having. I am going to up-size the pump on the furnace to see if this helps with the situation, after I do some more welding... Its almost that time again, stay tuned for more updates and pics of my leaky CB..
the weimar
the weimar
heaterman
Minister of Fire
^^^^^^^^ This occurs more than many of the OWB manufacturers realize and they will all find out as they transition to gasification type boilers. It was seldom if ever a problem before because internal flame temps were rarely high enough to cause this phenomena.
For those of you who owned a Ford diesel pickup with the old International 7.3 liter engine, you will recall there was a coolant additive that was supposed to be used every 50K miles or so. It's purpose was to prevent "air bubbles" from forming on the water jacket side of the cylinder liners, which of course led to issues with hot spots in the cylinder.
This is basically the same thing.
Heaterman, What do you think I should do? Or more accurately, how much bigger of a pump do you think I should run? I have a single Taco F model, (I think its an 05) flanged to 1 1/4" pex pipe. How much bigger do you think I should go?
Any info on this would be of a great help, and thanks to any and all of you who have followed this thread since last fall and offered your suggestions.
The Weimar
Jim
Any info on this would be of a great help, and thanks to any and all of you who have followed this thread since last fall and offered your suggestions.
The Weimar
Jim
Karl_northwind
Minister of Fire
In the heatmaster G series, we have to maintain a minimum flow rate thru the boiler. Your system flow rate is practically limited by the size of your pex and circulator. we will either pipe up a primary/secondary on the output of the boiler, (pipe from the supply to return with a big pipe and circulator with a couple tees in line that your existing supply/return circulator and piping would connect) giving you a large flow rate and mixing the boiler well, increasing the water flow past (hopefully) the hot spots. The other option is to take an unused boiler connection and just pipe from supply to return with a circulator to help mix the boiler. in your case that would be a fairly simple install and if it doesn't help, you haven't lost much.
these gasifiers are closer to the euro gasifiers, and less like the old OWBs, in that they need specified flow rates, return temperature protection (which you have)
also: I didn't know that about the 7.3l international. as I own one (and retired one recently with 350,000 on the clock due to an engine compartment fire) I'll have to look into that additive.
cheers,
karl
these gasifiers are closer to the euro gasifiers, and less like the old OWBs, in that they need specified flow rates, return temperature protection (which you have)
also: I didn't know that about the 7.3l international. as I own one (and retired one recently with 350,000 on the clock due to an engine compartment fire) I'll have to look into that additive.
cheers,
karl
heaterman
Minister of Fire
As Karl alluded too, the flow rate regardless of the pump used is going to be limited to a great extent by the dynamics presented by the system. These include tube diameter, length and other items such as heat exchanger(s) that create head.
The unwavering truth of moving fluid through a system is that greater flow creates higher head. So a point of no "return" is reached fairly rapidly regardless of the pump capability.
The other side of the coin is the flow pattern inside the water jacket of the boiler itself. Who knows if this was even thought of or studied by the manufacturer.....? It could very well be that vagaries of the internal construction may prevent even circulation over all parts of the heat exchanger surface regardless of flow rate.
All that fancy stuff being said.......I have no clue.
I can only assume that more flow would help keep things stirred up in there. Karl suggested a primary/secondary arrangement where the boiler can flow at one rate and the system can flow another. This would be a good start.
A Grunfoss 26-99, B&G PL 36, Taco 2400-20 would all provide about 15-20gpm in a 200' 1-1/4" primary loop. I would think that should create enough turbulence in the water jacket to eliminate hot spots but I have no idea how it is designed.inside.
I wish I could say........"Here's your answer!", but there are too many unknowns with the boiler itself.
maple1
Minister of Fire
These include tube diameter, length and other items such as heat exchanger(s) that create head.
...and the heat demand of the system?
...and the heat demand of the system?
heaterman
Minister of Fire
For this particular question/problem.......no. Because the issue is enough flow to keep the boiler happy rather than the house supplied with heat. His house may only need 4-5 GPM but the question is, how much does the boiler need to eliminate hotspots in the water jacket that seem to be causing problems. In Weimar's situation, he may want to simply shoot for as much as possible to see if it helps.
maple1
Minister of Fire
I guess I was thinking that if the house didn't need much heat, it would slow the flow (like, close zone valve(s)). But also forgot that most OWB setups pump 24/7 anyway.
Firstly, thanks for all the insight, knowledge and your interest. You guys have helped me more in the last few posts than CB has over the past three years.
Secondly, you guys are right on point with the info, kinda like you have been here and have seen what I have going on. Heat exchanger in the basement, thermostatic valve just as the pipes enter my basement wall, and 135' of 1 1/4" pex (x2). The boiler itself is about 12' below the heat exchanger, which is making me wonder whether or not I have enough pump...ah, the pump, a Taco 009-F5. There is also another pump (same model) on the other side of the heat exchanger. Never a problem with heating the house but I am now thinking that I am boiling the water right off the top of the furnace because the little Taco isn't circulating my 350 or so gallons quickly enough.
I have been trying to swear less but this is gonna make me F'n go off the deep end. How bout this idea, I'll run the Taco 2400-20 that heaterman suggested to run water from boiler to heat exchanger and ill swap the 009-F5 onto the other ports on the back of the water jacket to circulate the water in the boiler itself.. Can't be any worse than what I have going on now, right?
As I get going on this in the next month or so, I will post some pics....Thanks fellas
The Weimar
Secondly, you guys are right on point with the info, kinda like you have been here and have seen what I have going on. Heat exchanger in the basement, thermostatic valve just as the pipes enter my basement wall, and 135' of 1 1/4" pex (x2). The boiler itself is about 12' below the heat exchanger, which is making me wonder whether or not I have enough pump...ah, the pump, a Taco 009-F5. There is also another pump (same model) on the other side of the heat exchanger. Never a problem with heating the house but I am now thinking that I am boiling the water right off the top of the furnace because the little Taco isn't circulating my 350 or so gallons quickly enough.
I have been trying to swear less but this is gonna make me F'n go off the deep end. How bout this idea, I'll run the Taco 2400-20 that heaterman suggested to run water from boiler to heat exchanger and ill swap the 009-F5 onto the other ports on the back of the water jacket to circulate the water in the boiler itself.. Can't be any worse than what I have going on now, right?
As I get going on this in the next month or so, I will post some pics....Thanks fellas
The Weimar
Karl_northwind
Minister of Fire
if the 009 is moving enough water to heat the house, you could leave it alone, and put your additional circulator on the second ports and let it stir. the 009 is a low flow high head circ, so well suited to moving as much water thru a long narrow pipe as possible, but if you leave it wide open, it'll still only move 10 gpm or so. a 0010 would stir it good, at 25 gpm on a short piece of 1.5" pipe, supply to return. the 2400-20 would be closer to 40 gpm.
I wonder if your return protection is adding so much head to the main loop that it's restricting the flow and giving you a really low flow rate at the boiler. have you ever measured it?
I wonder if your return protection is adding so much head to the main loop that it's restricting the flow and giving you a really low flow rate at the boiler. have you ever measured it?
- Status
Similar threads
