New to it all...help!

twinkiner · Jul 30, 2015

We just purchased property at 9000ft and are completely off grid. We just installed a well and the neighbors asked about heat for the winter....as propane is prohibitively expensive. We only have a 400sf RV and someone suggested a 'fire foyer', built onto the RV at the door where we could house a wood burning stove and blow the heated air inside. I have looked at smaller stoves and really like the Englander 13nch. Also came across a used Quadra-Fire 2100 that even comes with some of the pipe. We are running blind and have no idea what would be best. Any advice would be appreciated.

begreen · Jul 30, 2015

Welcome. Stoves in RVs have special rules for clearances, being bolted down, having an outside air supply, etc.. A "fire foyer" is bad for a couple reasons, you don't want to block and exit and clearances. This could be a challenge in a small space. The other issue is going to be chimney height. At high altitudes one needs a lot more chimney to create enough draft. The second issue is going to be finding fully seasoned wood. Modern stoves require this for good heat.

For a small space I think you are going to want a catalytic stove like a Blaze King Sirocco.

Grisu · Jul 30, 2015

Do you have a reliable source of electricity? Maybe a pellet stove would be better. Easier venting, usually closer clearances, thermostat regulated.

I would also look at local propane prices. It has come down quite a bit in many areas. It will be much easier to heat 400 sqft with propane than a wood stove.

How long do you anticipate living there? A wood stove with enough chimney pipe for your altitude will be quite an investment.

begreen · Jul 30, 2015

It's going to be a challenge. RV's are notoriously poorly insulated.

EatenByLimestone · Jul 30, 2015

Poorly insulated, but still small. I don't see how any solid fuel burner would give a decent burn time with as few Btus as will be needed. I'd be looking at 100 lb propane tanks. Another option is to put a large tank in where you could use it with a larger structure later.

blades · Jul 31, 2015

off grid, no or limited electric ( battery- solar) not a match for a pellet stove, except one that requires no power it is called a Wiseway. Is this just a get away or full time abode.

twinkiner · Jul 31, 2015

begreen said:
Welcome. Stoves in RVs have special rules for clearances, being bolted down, having an outside air supply, etc.. A "fire foyer" is bad for a couple reasons, you don't want to block and exit and clearances. This could be a challenge in a small space. The other issue is going to be chimney height. At high altitudes one needs a lot more chimney to create enough draft. The second issue is going to be finding fully seasoned wood. Modern stoves require this for good heat.

For a small space I think you are going to want a catalytic stove like a Blaze King Sirocco.

Grisu said:
Do you have a reliable source of electricity? Maybe a pellet stove would be better. Easier venting, usually closer clearances, thermostat regulated.

I would also look at local propane prices. It has come down quite a bit in many areas. It will be much easier to heat 400 sqft with propane than a wood stove.

How long do you anticipate living there? A wood stove with enough chimney pipe for your altitude will be quite an investment.

Thanks for all the response! Although the answers aren't exactly what I wanted to hear. We are planning to build a small cabin...eventually. We are part timers right now, mostly weekends, and we already know the RV will be like a piece of swiss cheese for heat in the winter.

Thankfully, I provide my own internal furnace most of the time. LOL! We are going to install solar soon and will have a propane tank for backup, but the all year residents say that gets very pricey. We will not need the stove for this winter, but want to be totally prepped for next year. Wood and all. No hardwoods readily available, but we can get all the evergreens (and some aspens) we want through forestry service permits. We hope to be full time by next summer. As for the foyer, we would build it as big and to whatever specs are needed. My boyfriend is an all around carpenter. We just don't know quite yet what all the specs are. I am not sure about the chimney length...is there a rule of thumb?

twinkiner · Jul 31, 2015

blades said:
off grid, no or limited electric ( battery- solar) not a match for a pellet stove, except one that requires no power it is called a Wiseway. Is this just a get away or full time abode.

I will look into the wiseway...might solve any immediate problems as long as its not really expensive.

begreen · Jul 31, 2015

You folks are in a tough place. Initial costs for wood heat are high due to the infrastructure costs of the chimney, alcove buildout, hearth building, the stove and finding seasoned wood. Check current propane prices first. They have dropped dramatically this summer. In some areas it is at a record low. If you find that propane is cheaper than thought (say less than $2.50 a gallon) I would consider that strongly, especially if the RV already has a propane heater built in. Be sure the system is in good working order and make sure the propane leak detector is working well and newer than 8 yrs old. If not, replace.

The problem with such a small space is that only a small stove will be required, but small stoves usually have short burn times. That could mean feeding the stove every few hours to stay warm. That said one stove to look at would be the Englander 17VL. It is shallow, has reasonable clearances and is low-priced. It normally requires a 15ft chimney, but at 9000 ft I suspect it would be happier with at least 20-25ft of chimney. There is no hard rule here. Different stoves breathe their combustion air at different rates. The other stove that would be good, but maybe a budget breaker would be the Blaze King Sirocco 20. This is a catalytic stove that can be run at a low and slow rate for long burn times and heat.

Download the manuals for these stoves and look at the alcove installation requirements. Pay attention to all dimensions including ceiling height. Also note all mobile home requirements. My concern with doing an alcove for the stove are clearances and support. Wood stoves are hot and heavy. The alcove ceiling would need to be strong enough to support several lengths of heavy chimney pipe. You may want to think twice about this route given the temporary nature of this dwelling. It simply may not be worth the investment, you'll have to weigh the cost benefits. The stove is going to run between Some of the parts could be reusable in the new home like the chimney and the stove.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englander-1-200-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove-17-VL/202051504
http://www.amfmenergy.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html
http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-sirocco20.html

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begreen · Jul 31, 2015

Here is a Hearth.com review and detailed discussion of the Wiseway pros and cons. Note that these stoves are not inexpensive. The smaller one runs about $1900.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-wiseway-non-electric-stove-experience.115974/

Breckwell also makes a non-electric pellet stove model, the Monticello SPG9000. I know nothing about this stove except that it is pricey. Sounds like it works more like a woodstove with a pellet basket.
http://breckwell.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=874

twinkiner · Jul 31, 2015

begreen said:
You folks are in a tough place. Initial costs for wood heat are high due to the infrastructure costs of the chimney, alcove buildout, hearth building, the stove and finding seasoned wood. Check current propane prices first. They have dropped dramatically this summer. In some areas it is at a record low. If you find that propane is cheaper than thought (say less than $2.50 a gallon) I would consider that strongly, especially if the RV already has a propane heater built in. Be sure the system is in good working order and make sure the propane leak detector is working well and newer than 8 yrs old. If not, replace.

The problem with such a small space is that only a small stove will be required, but small stoves usually have short burn times. That could mean feeding the stove every few hours to stay warm. That said one stove to look at would be the Englander 17VL. It is shallow, has reasonable clearances and is low-priced. It normally requires a 15ft chimney, but at 9000 ft I suspect it would be happier with at least 20-25ft of chimney. There is no hard rule here. Different stoves breathe their combustion air at different rates. The other stove that would be good, but maybe a budget breaker would be the Blaze King Sirocco 20. This is a catalytic stove that can be run at a low and slow rate for long burn times and heat.

Download the manuals for these stoves and look at the alcove installation requirements. Pay attention to all dimensions including ceiling height. Also note all mobile home requirements. My concern with doing an alcove for the stove are clearances and support. Wood stoves are hot and heavy. The alcove ceiling would need to be strong enough to support several lengths of heavy chimney pipe. You may want to think twice about this route given the temporary nature of this dwelling. It simply may not be worth the investment, you'll have to weigh the cost benefits. The stove is going to run between Some of the parts could be reusable in the new home like the chimney and the stove.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englander-1-200-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove-17-VL/202051504
http://www.amfmenergy.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html
http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-sirocco20.html

View attachment 160034 View attachment 160035

I am printing all of the manuals so we can read them this weekend. I had looked at the 17VL, but couldn't find any ratings on it on this site and wasn't sure if it was too small for our needs. Do you actually build a chimney 10-15 feet above the roof line? How is that supported? Our neighbors just moved up there full time, so many of these issues are far more imperative for them. They are not strangers to wood burning and high altitude, but total newbies to RV living. We are working hard to get them as insulated as possible before winter. I need to say how glad I am to have found this site. Time and again I see how helpful you all are and the great ideas just pour in. As for Daniel and I, we might just go with the propane until we build and add the stove then. I am not one to play with fire...literally.

begreen · Jul 31, 2015

There are several threads here on that stove. Search on 17VL ( or 17-VL). It is a decent small stove.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/summers-heat-50-svl17-englander-17-vl-install.75290/
Chimney support is very important. It needs to be braced every 5ft. I would not try this with the flimsy roofs on an RV. Some have no real support braces at all. You had mentioned a bump-out foyer for the stove. I was assuming that this would be a stick built addition with real roof rafters.

twinkiner · Jul 31, 2015

begreen said:
There are several threads here on that stove. Search on 17VL ( or 17-VL). It is a decent small stove.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/summers-heat-50-svl17-englander-17-vl-install.75290/
Chimney support is very important. It needs to be braced every 5ft. I would not try this with the flimsy roofs on an RV. Some have no real support braces at all. You had mentioned a bump-out foyer for the stove. I was assuming that this would be a stick built addition with real roof rafters.

Yes, we would build it very solid, like a shed adjacent to the RV. Like a large mud room with a new entry door. Still not sure how he plans to attach it to the RV. He is thinking permanent and I am thinking just winter, but he is the expert. My summer awning dream is just that.

begreen · Jul 31, 2015

Done right, the RV could be moved away and the mudroom then could become part of the new building. However, if this is just connected via the doorway there are safety issues that come into play. Most importantly, how does one escape the RV if there is a fire in this entryway? If it is the only exit I would think that all code would frown on this plan.

twinkiner · Jul 31, 2015

There are emergency windows on the opposite side of the RV, one at each end with simple release latches. They are about 5 feet off the ground and even my jolly self would fit through them. The neighbors have 3 of those exits...their RV is bigger. Based on previous discussions between Daniel and I, and our neighbors, the 'mud room' would be more than a breezeway, more like and 8x8 or 8x10 shed. The idea was to make most of the floor and wall hearthlike. I do want it to be freestanding and usable in the future after all the building is done for storage or whatnot. We can't build it at the house site because of the grade...wouldn't be able to level the RV. The neighbors have more options with that possibility. I will pass it on. I am the research queen and Daniel will think through all the info I bring to the table. We have to come up with a safe, temporary solution, at least for the neighbors who have no other domicile. There is so much to learn about the different aspects of all of this, kind of overwhelming.

begreen · Jul 31, 2015

How large is the neighbor's RV? Is it an RV or a manufactured home, like a single-wide?

EatenByLimestone · Jul 31, 2015

You alcove could be built to easily disassemble so it can be rebuilt at the new site.

twinkiner · Aug 3, 2015

Sorry, we were up on the hill this weekend. The neighbors have an RV, it is 37'.

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