Seeking guidance

ChevyGuy · Jul 28, 2015

Hello everyone,
Just joined the forum hoping to get some valuable information BEFORE I buy a OWB. Last year my wife and I bought an 1860's Victorian house that is 3700 s.f. It is beautiful and a major part of the restoration has been done by the previous owner. Unfortunately not the insulation or windows. Last winter we got a big lesson on how much wind and cold can blow through old walls. WOW, we averaged 54 degrees in the house all winter. We have 2 good quality wood pellet stoves in the house and burned almost 13 tons of pellets. We also have dual Boderus boilers that are only 5 years old. We tried using the oil heat for 2 days and the boiler ran for 1 hour straight, turned off for 2 minutes and than ran another hour straight. That was the pattern which is not acceptable on our budget.
Our brother in law has a tree business and we have an endless supply of free fire wood. So, I have been pursuing installing a wood boiler. The previous owner of the house had this same idea and had the underground insulated piping installed, so that is all set. Checked with the town office and we are OK'd to have one if we chose to.
I am looking for all your opinions. What are the good brands to buy and the brands to avoid? We can't afford new so we will be buying a used boiler. How old is too old to consider buying? When I go to check them out what proceedure should I do to inspect it to make sure there are no cracks or other problems? And any other info I need to know to make a good decision on installation and operation would be great too.

Thanks ahead of time. I have been reading for a few weeks but boy....this stuff can get a newbies head spinning.

Brian

jebatty · Jul 28, 2015

I'm sure your are proud of your new home, and also are aware of some of the challenges. All your questions are good, but the info you provide is only a sketch for what could be a complicated situation. The place to start is insulation and windows, especially insulation. That will provide you with the biggest bang for the buck, plus it will help you to not buy a boiler that is larger (and more expensive to buy, fuel, and maintain) that you need.

Then you need to determine the heat load of your house. You need that info to size a wood boiler or any other heating appliance. In this regard I would encourage staying away from any OWB, particularly a used one. Although you may have an endless supply of wood, responsible wood burning strongly suggests a high efficiency boiler, preferably gasification, and burning only seasoned wood, never green wood.

Next comes the design of your system. Although you say that underground insulated piping was installed, what is important is that the piping was adequately sized (and insulated) to handle the heat load of your house, something which you do not now know. And there are other components and design issues once you get to this point.

I assume you want to stay in and enjoy your house for a long time. Doing the heating right will pay big dividends over time.

maple1 · Jul 28, 2015

Does NY have any efficiency programs you can tap into? Insulation & air sealing should be top priority.

I would be willing to bet that the underground piping that is already installed is an inferior product - but it might not be. Can you post a picture of the ends of it showing its construction? You might have to think about redoing that too.

I would also be one that would avoid an OWB - if I did want to burn wood outside the house to heat water, I would get an indoor boiler, in an outbuilding (think big shed or a workshop), that was big enough to also hold my entire winters wood. And figure out how I might add storage to the equation - either in the shed with the boiler, or in the basement of the house. But with your heatload that you currently have, storage might not help you much.

ChevyGuy · Jul 28, 2015

jebatty said:
I'm sure your are proud of your new home, and also are aware of some of the challenges. All your questions are good, but the info you provide is only a sketch for what could be a complicated situation. The place to start is insulation and windows, especially insulation. That will provide you with the biggest bang for the buck, plus it will help you to not buy a boiler that is larger (and more expensive to buy, fuel, and maintain) that you need.

Then you need to determine the heat load of your house. You need that info to size a wood boiler or any other heating appliance. In this regard I would encourage staying away from any OWB, particularly a used one. Although you may have an endless supply of wood, responsible wood burning strongly suggests a high efficiency boiler, preferably gasification, and burning only seasoned wood, never green wood.

Next comes the design of your system. Although you say that underground insulated piping was installed, what is important is that the piping was adequately sized (and insulated) to handle the heat load of your house, something which you do not now know. And there are other components and design issues once you get to this point.

I assume you want to stay in and enjoy your house for a long time. Doing the heating right will pay big dividends over time.

Yes, we do want to stay here a while. All good points you bring up. We have 63 windows in the house and many are 8' tall. The cost to replace them with period style replacements would be crazy. I am a custom cabinet maker and am in the process of building a new shop behind the house. My plan is to take out the original window frames and retrofit them with double argone filled pained glass. I need the shop done first and then this will be something I do in phases over the next few years. I am getting an estimate soon on insulation, but the windows are the big culprit. We will have to keep covering with plastic until the above shop is ready.
In the meantime I was hoping to get an alternative heat source in place to make this coming winter a little more bearable. I do understand that I really am not doing things in order. Just can't imagine waiting till all the windows are done to figure out a new heating system.

sootsucka · Jul 28, 2015

13 tons of pellets and house still at 54 wow is right. I don't think you will ever get ahead with dry wood for a gasser. How many btus is your oil boilers? They both ran nonstop for two days? That's a lot of heat loss I'd be scared getting ahead two years wood for a gasser. That would be in the ballpark 50 cords. I'd be looking hard for a good used owb

leon · Jul 28, 2015

Your situation is not much different than mine asI have a poorly insulated house
with poor workmanship.

I am switching to a coal stoker boiler after 33 years of
dealing with wood-tired of fighting with it and
dealing with poor cordwood supply

Your oil boiler is simply responding to the thermostats call for heat,
this is what every furnace and boiler used for heating does.

You should look up the videos about outdoor woodboilers
which are also known as Forest Eaters on You Tube.

You need to listen and watch the people that own them and
what they have to deal with filling an OWB with wet wood at
3AM in rain or snow or filling it in snowstorms in below zero
weather.

I think after seeing them you will change your mind.

You will get energy upgrade help and loans from the local utility for upgrades
to improve energy efficiency but the issue is what to do today.

Its fine to have the wood supply and or a wood splitter.
I had a Timberwolf commercial TW5 F-C firewood splitter with a log lift and
after breaking my nose slipping on ice with good boots I decided
enough was enough.

Even the smallest Keystoker KAA-2 or the KAA-4-1 would increase the
temperature in your homebecause it has less water allowing a faster recovery time.
AND give you all the hot water you need for your domestic hot water needs or a jacuzzi.

Before you do anything you will regret doing later ask the previous owner if he purhcased
oxygen barrier PEX tubing that was 13 dollars per foot, if he did not you are already in the
dog house-also known as "a spiral surrounding a cylindrical shaft" AKA screwed.

Its your money, and I dont have my hand on your wallet trying to spend it; but as I live in the
southern fingerlakes on a mountain 1,140 feet above sea level I can tell you winter last year
and the year before was no picnic with lots of sub zero days.

Even the smallest keystoker stoker stove or the KAA-2 boiler will cost you less than a used
outdoor boiler.

Even burning just 11 pounds an hour for 24 hours only burns 264 pounds of rice coal to heat the water heating a home and is about 24 dollars worth of rice coal. Burning 24 gallons of kerosene or fuel oil over 24 hours costs you much more than that.

Tennman · Jul 29, 2015

We were exactly where you are today 7 years ago, just in a more temperate, southern climate and we were burning a lot of propane (home ~5,000 sf). Our home is slightly older. Make sure you look at the underground install. I agree with Maple that the odds tend to favor the lines either being too small or not properly insulated or both. Read the underground Sticky. We did our install in stages and love having the boiler in the outbuilding. Others up north equally love in-the-home boiler, decide your priorities. There are lots of posts of the pros and cons. You can do what we did, install a good gasser in an outbuilding without storage the first year then pony up downstream for storage. We could not bear to replace our wonderful, old wrinkly glass windows or cover them with storm windows. So we face similar inefficiencies by choice. We bought our 60 Class boiler new with a payoff for us in about 1.5 years. Last season was our first with storage, that transformed literally our lives. Like going from an indoor dog to an outdoor dog. Lots of good boilers and not so good. Look at the signatures of the guys here with 100's to 1,000's of posts and see what they have. If they have lots of posts, they're a happy user.

Lots to learn, but this is the best place to learn and evaluate if an installer knows what he's talking about or telling the truth. Best wishes.

velvetfoot · Jul 29, 2015

Do you have ANY insulation in the walls? If not, I'd foam.

ChevyGuy · Jul 29, 2015

T

Tennman said:
We were exactly where you are today 7 years ago, just in a more temperate, southern climate and we were burning a lot of propane (home ~5,000 sf). Our home is slightly older. Make sure you look at the underground install. I agree with Maple that the odds tend to favor the lines either being too small or not properly insulated or both. Read the underground Sticky. We did our install in stages and love having the boiler in the outbuilding. Others up north equally love in-the-home boiler, decide your priorities. There are lots of posts of the pros and cons. You can do what we did, install a good gasser in an outbuilding without storage the first year then pony up downstream for storage. We could not bear to replace our wonderful, old wrinkly glass windows or cover them with storm windows. So we face similar inefficiencies by choice. We bought our 60 Class boiler new with a payoff for us in about 1.5 years. Last season was our first with storage, that transformed literally our lives. Like going from an indoor dog to an outdoor dog. Lots of good boilers and not so good. Look at the signatures of the guys here with 100's to 1,000's of posts and see what they have. If they have lots of posts, they're a happy user.

Lots to learn, but this is the best place to learn and evaluate if an installer knows what he's talking about or telling the truth. Best wishes.

Tenman, I really appreciate your post. We also planned to do all this in stages as finances and time do not permit us from doing it all in one shot. I did persue a indoor wood boiler and was close to buying one a few weeks ago. But first I got an estimate for installing a liner in our chimney to be able to use the wood boiler. Our house is a unique design and the chimney actually bends back and to the right at a steep angle for about 12' horizontally and then turns back up to run up through another wall. It's a 3 story victorian and the chimney extends 8' higher than the house peak making the total run around 50'. Because of the bends and the 12' angle run it is not possible to "Pull" a liner through. Holes would need to be broken through 2 or 3 places in the interior of the house to fish the liner through. The interior of our house is all new plaster, not sheetrock. I don't like the idea of breaking through that chimney and possibly upsetting the structure of an already scarey design. We wonder how it has stayed solid all this time.
So with that said I kind of abandoned the indoor boiler idea. We were quoted around $5,500 to install the liner alone. With all the cost of everything needed for the whole project, and then having a boiler that had to be filled several times a day, and having the higher rise in Homeowner insurance caused by it being indoor, I started to look into the outdoor units. I have been told and have read on here several times that they can be fiiled twice a day and you're done. Hearing people say you have to go out at 3am doesn't sound like they are scheduling or monitoring to well. I read guys post who fill it at 8am and 8 pm give or take.
I do plan to insulate, but the reasoning behind doing the boiler now is...... Why pay for oil or pellets to heat the house when I get the wood free? No I don't have to worry about wet wood. I can get all I need NOW and it is all split. That leaves me 5 months more to let it dry here also. We spent $3,500 on pellets last year and frooze. But with the oil boiler on it was nice inside the house at 68 degrees. The 54 average temp degrees was when we used the pellet stoves(2). So if the oil boilers kept it warmer, why not ad on a wood boiler, use the same heating system and save $3,500 in pellets? Heck, $3,500 is probably half the cost of an outdoor boiler. Well, this is my reasoning anyway. I fully admit that I am not educated in heating systems and their design and there is a lot more to calculate and consider, but.... that is exactly why I am here asking. I will take ALL the input and make a plan. Thanks again.

ChevyGuy · Jul 29, 2015

velvetfoot said:
Do you have ANY insulation in the walls? If not, I'd foam.

There are plugs on the outside of the house where it had been pumped in at some point. I suspect that it has settled a lot and needs to be redone.

maple1 · Jul 29, 2015

ChevyGuy said:
T

Tenman, I really appreciate your post. We also planned to do all this in stages as finances and time do not permit us from doing it all in one shot. I did persue a indoor wood boiler and was close to buying one a few weeks ago. But first I got an estimate for installing a liner in our chimney to be able to use the wood boiler. Our house is a unique design and the chimney actually bends back and to the right at a steep angle for about 12' horizontally and then turns back up to run up through another wall. It's a 3 story victorian and the chimney extends 8' higher than the house peak making the total run around 50'. Because of the bends and the 12' angle run it is not possible to "Pull" a liner through. Holes would need to be broken through 2 or 3 places in the interior of the house to fish the liner through. The interior of our house is all new plaster, not sheetrock. I don't like the idea of breaking through that chimney and possibly upsetting the structure of an already scarey design. We wonder how it has stayed solid all this time.
So with that said I kind of abandoned the indoor boiler idea. We were quoted around $5,500 to install the liner alone. With all the cost of everything needed for the whole project, and then having a boiler that had to be filled several times a day, and having the higher rise in Homeowner insurance caused by it being indoor, I started to look into the outdoor units. I have been told and have read on here several times that they can be fiiled twice a day and you're done. Hearing people say you have to go out at 3am doesn't sound like they are scheduling or monitoring to well. I read guys post who fill it at 8am and 8 pm give or take.
I do plan to insulate, but the reasoning behind doing the boiler now is...... Why pay for oil or pellets to heat the house when I get the wood free? No I don't have to worry about wet wood. I can get all I need NOW and it is all split. That leaves me 5 months more to let it dry here also. We spent $3,500 on pellets last year and frooze. But with the oil boiler on it was nice inside the house at 68 degrees. The 54 average temp degrees was when we used the pellet stoves(2). So if the oil boilers kept it warmer, why not ad on a wood boiler, use the same heating system and save $3,500 in pellets? Heck, $3,500 is probably half the cost of an outdoor boiler. Well, this is my reasoning anyway. I fully admit that I am not educated in heating systems and their design and there is a lot more to calculate and consider, but.... that is exactly why I am here asking. I will take ALL the input and make a plan. Thanks again.

Did you catch the above suggestion, of putting an indoor boiler (and your winters wood), in an outbuilding? That is what Tennman did. That idea might line up with your shop construction? Both under one roof? You might want to partition the boiler off - but that would be miles ahead of a typical OWB.

leon · Jul 30, 2015

ChevyGuy said:
T

Tenman, I really appreciate your post. We also planned to do all this in stages as finances and time do not permit us from doing it all in one shot. I did persue a indoor wood boiler and was close to buying one a few weeks ago. But first I got an estimate for installing a liner in our chimney to be able to use the wood boiler. Our house is a unique design and the chimney actually bends back and to the right at a steep angle for about 12' horizontally and then turns back up to run up through another wall. It's a 3 story victorian and the chimney extends 8' higher than the house peak making the total run around 50'. Because of the bends and the 12' angle run it is not possible to "Pull" a liner through. Holes would need to be broken through 2 or 3 places in the interior of the house to fish the liner through. The interior of our house is all new plaster, not sheetrock. I don't like the idea of breaking through that chimney and possibly upsetting the structure of an already scarey design. We wonder how it has stayed solid all this time.
So with that said I kind of abandoned the indoor boiler idea. We were quoted around $5,500 to install the liner alone. With all the cost of everything needed for the whole project, and then having a boiler that had to be filled several times a day, and having the higher rise in Homeowner insurance caused by it being indoor, I started to look into the outdoor units. I have been told and have read on here several times that they can be fiiled twice a day and you're done. Hearing people say you have to go out at 3am doesn't sound like they are scheduling or monitoring to well. I read guys post who fill it at 8am and 8 pm give or take.
I do plan to insulate, but the reasoning behind doing the boiler now is...... Why pay for oil or pellets to heat the house when I get the wood free? No I don't have to worry about wet wood. I can get all I need NOW and it is all split. That leaves me 5 months more to let it dry here also. We spent $3,500 on pellets last year and frooze. But with the oil boiler on it was nice inside the house at 68 degrees. The 54 average temp degrees was when we used the pellet stoves(2). So if the oil boilers kept it warmer, why not ad on a wood boiler, use the same heating system and save $3,500 in pellets? Heck, $3,500 is probably half the cost of an outdoor boiler. Well, this is my reasoning anyway. I fully admit that I am not educated in heating systems and their design and there is a lot more to calculate and consider, but.... that is exactly why I am here asking. I will take ALL the input and make a plan. Thanks again.

==================================================================================

I am trying to help you both long term and short term, not spend your money.
I do not thave my hand on your wallet.

Have you looked at the current NYSDEC outdoor boiler regulations?

www.dec.ny.gov/docs/air_pdf

If you take the time to look at the videos on YOUTUBE you will see why the owners of
these things hate them as they cannot keep up with the heat load.

AS the outdoor boiler heats the home and loses heat value there is less fuel in the
fire box from the act of combustion and all that water in the boiler gets cold.

Unless you have massive water storage of 1,500 gallons or more you cannot manage
a burn very well. Even with my smaller wood boiler I lost huge amounts of heat from
losses due to smoke not being combusted.

"Every time a damper shuts down the smoke exiting the stack is unburned fuel".

Every time you see smoke that is heat energy lost from the act of combustion.

Dont forget you are "reheating" massive amounts of water and then
pumping it back to the residence where it is radiated back into the home
to heat it.

Please understand, a boiler with a smaller water capacity like a coal stoker
will take less time to recover to the high temperature cut off temperature.

Coal stokers can be equiped with direct vent fan units eliminating connections
to masonry chimneys as long as the national fire code is followed to install it and
maintain proper clearances.

A Keystoker KAA-2 with the direct vent option can be purchased
for $5,503.68 tax included plus the cost of installation.

A Keystoker KAA-4-1 with the direct vent option can be purchased
for 5,837.40 tax included plus the cost of installation.

I am not trying to sell you a boiler. I am changing my method of heating after burning
15 full cords of split firewood and coal some years after 33 years of dealing
with it.

Chris Hoskin · Aug 3, 2015

ChevyGuy, I sell indoor wood boilers so because of my personal bias and all the other reasons listed above, I recommend you strongly consider a wood boiler in your new shop. Incorporate thermal storage and generous wood storage in there and you have the ultimate wood burning system, imho. That said, I am concerned about a typical "wood gasification" boiler's ability to meet your heating demand - most are less than 200,000 btu. What are the btu ratings (nozzle size) of the two Buderus oil boilers? Did I understand correctly that you have two Buderus boilers and that only one of them ran flat-out? If so, that's kind of ideal efficiency-wise. All that by way of getting around to suggesting that your heat load may require you to get a larger wood boiler like a Garn. Ballpark $20k to $25k for the installed Garn.

My bias aside, I can understand why you are considering an outdoor boiler. If you go that route, a couple of suggestions:

1. check the size (diameter) and insulation quality of the existing underground piping. If it is 1" and wrapped with bubble wrap as many here suspect, at the very least run an additional single, well insulated line alongside them. Double up the bubble wrapped lines as a return line (from house back to boiler) and use the new 1 1/4", well insulated line as your supply (from boiler to house). I know it doesn't sound like a big difference, but the inch and a quarter line will flow twice as much as the one inch line. Flow = heat delivered and you need every btu you can get by the sounds of it.

2. Don't buy a used boiler. If it is available, they are selling it for a reason. The old-style outdoor boilers spend a lot of time smoldering and the creosote that accumulates in the firebox rots them out pretty quickly. Go for a new gasification boiler - Portage and Main is one that I would look at for sure and there are others (no affiliation, no endorsement). Ballpark $15k to $20k for the installed boiler.

3. Start collecting, splitting and drying your wood now. Wood takes a year to dry properly so you are already behind, but better late than never. If you can manage the massive task of getting 20 cords put up, you'll be all set for next year too and then the trick will be to stay a year ahead. All of us here get pretty excited by different technologies and tweaks, but truth be told, the most important thing you can do to minimize your wood consumption is to burn dry wood.

4. Lots of good wood boiler people in NY. Find one and work with them to purchase and install the boiler.

Good luck with the project, please let us know what you end up doing.

Chris

ChevyGuy · Aug 4, 2015

Chris Hoskin said:
ChevyGuy, I sell indoor wood boilers so because of my personal bias and all the other reasons listed above, I recommend you strongly consider a wood boiler in your new shop. Incorporate thermal storage and generous wood storage in there and you have the ultimate wood burning system, imho. That said, I am concerned about a typical "wood gasification" boiler's ability to meet your heating demand - most are less than 200,000 btu. What are the btu ratings (nozzle size) of the two Buderus oil boilers? Did I understand correctly that you have two Buderus boilers and that only one of them ran flat-out? If so, that's kind of ideal efficiency-wise. All that by way of getting around to suggesting that your heat load may require you to get a larger wood boiler like a Garn. Ballpark $20k to $25k for the installed Garn.

My bias aside, I can understand why you are considering an outdoor boiler. If you go that route, a couple of suggestions:

1. check the size (diameter) and insulation quality of the existing underground piping. If it is 1" and wrapped with bubble wrap as many here suspect, at the very least run an additional single, well insulated line alongside them. Double up the bubble wrapped lines as a return line (from house back to boiler) and use the new 1 1/4", well insulated line as your supply (from boiler to house). I know it doesn't sound like a big difference, but the inch and a quarter line will flow twice as much as the one inch line. Flow = heat delivered and you need every btu you can get by the sounds of it.

2. Don't buy a used boiler. If it is available, they are selling it for a reason. The old-style outdoor boilers spend a lot of time smoldering and the creosote that accumulates in the firebox rots them out pretty quickly. Go for a new gasification boiler - Portage and Main is one that I would look at for sure and there are others (no affiliation, no endorsement). Ballpark $15k to $20k for the installed boiler.

3. Start collecting, splitting and drying your wood now. Wood takes a year to dry properly so you are already behind, but better late than never. If you can manage the massive task of getting 20 cords put up, you'll be all set for next year too and then the trick will be to stay a year ahead. All of us here get pretty excited by different technologies and tweaks, but truth be told, the most important thing you can do to minimize your wood consumption is to burn dry wood.

4. Lots of good wood boiler people in NY. Find one and work with them to purchase and install the boiler.

Good luck with the project, please let us know what you end up doing.

Chris

Thank you Chris for all that input. With the info and opinions I have gotten on here I can see that I need more time to collect it all and consider all the pro's and con's before making a desicion. So this isn't going to happen this year. There just isn't enough time. I have a 2 story carriage house behind our house that I have started building my new woodshop in. The interior is all designed, plans submitted and approvals from the building department granted. I have every sq. ft of the interior already needed for the business so the boiler can't go in that building. I had planned on putting up a small pole barn type structure behind the carriage house to have the boiler and firewood in. It would be about 80' from the house but right outside the back door of the carriage house for easy access.
I just checked the pipes that are already installed. The 2 water pipes are 1 1/4" outside diameter PVC and they are incased in a solid cylinder of styrofoam that is 6" diameter. That in turn is inside a 8" diam. green PVC type of pipe. No bubble wrap at all.
The price of $15 to $20K right now is not possible. I have to get the business/shop built and up and running first and that is taking the majority of our $ right now. Used boiler was an affordable option at the moment, but like you said I feared getting a piece of junk and an outdated boiler. Still, I read ads of guys moving south and selling their boilers that are only a few years old. I then do a search on the brand and model of the boiler and see what people are saying about them. Some don't sound bad.
I will be getting a few estimates on insulating this week. I was going to look into doing it myself and blowing it into the walls, but watched a few video's and have heard that if you really don't have experience you could end up putting to much in and buldging the walls and cracking plaster. Again, more research is needed before I decide.
I did see a video about those Portage and Maine boilers and they sounded really good and of a little higher quality than most. Haven't searched yet to see what others who have bought them are saying though.
Yes, we have 2 Buderus G215 boilers. Not sure of the exact BTU output but I believe my heating guy said 149k btu. Yes, one ran flat out and the other seldom kicked on. Nozzle size? Again, not sure. Plate on the burner says .80x76 I believe.
So this year will be just the pellet stoves again and maybe getting some insulation in the walls if possible. Got to do the shop first to be able to make the $ to do the house. Heck, We might just live in the shop this winter as it will be warmer than the house for sure.

Chris Hoskin · Aug 4, 2015

ChevyGuy said:
Thank you Chris for all that input. With the info and opinions I have gotten on here I can see that I need more time to collect it all and consider all the pro's and con's before making a desicion. So this isn't going to happen this year. There just isn't enough time. I have a 2 story carriage house behind our house that I have started building my new woodshop in. The interior is all designed, plans submitted and approvals from the building department granted. I have every sq. ft of the interior already needed for the business so the boiler can't go in that building. I had planned on putting up a small pole barn type structure behind the carriage house to have the boiler and firewood in. It would be about 80' from the house but right outside the back door of the carriage house for easy access.
I just checked the pipes that are already installed. The 2 water pipes are 1 1/4" outside diameter PVC and they are incased in a solid cylinder of styrofoam that is 6" diameter. That in turn is inside a 8" diam. green PVC type of pipe. No bubble wrap at all.
The price of $15 to $20K right now is not possible. I have to get the business/shop built and up and running first and that is taking the majority of our $ right now. Used boiler was an affordable option at the moment, but like you said I feared getting a piece of junk and an outdated boiler. Still, I read ads of guys moving south and selling their boilers that are only a few years old. I then do a search on the brand and model of the boiler and see what people are saying about them. Some don't sound bad.
I will be getting a few estimates on insulating this week. I was going to look into doing it myself and blowing it into the walls, but watched a few video's and have heard that if you really don't have experience you could end up putting to much in and buldging the walls and cracking plaster. Again, more research is needed before I decide.
I did see a video about those Portage and Maine boilers and they sounded really good and of a little higher quality than most. Haven't searched yet to see what others who have bought them are saying though.
Yes, we have 2 Buderus G215 boilers. Not sure of the exact BTU output but I believe my heating guy said 149k btu. Yes, one ran flat out and the other seldom kicked on. Nozzle size? Again, not sure. Plate on the burner says .80x76 I believe.
So this year will be just the pellet stoves again and maybe getting some insulation in the walls if possible. Got to do the shop first to be able to make the $ to do the house. Heck, We might just live in the shop this winter as it will be warmer than the house for sure.

I'm sure it is frustrating to have to wait, but it is a big project and expensive so doing your homework will be well worth it. In the meantime it gives you a great opportunity to get started on next year's wood supply!

Tennman · Aug 4, 2015

I'm curious how much you spent on 13 tons of pellets for the '14 heating season. 13 tons = 26,000# of pellets = 650 40# bags @ ~$6 at Lowes = ~$4k. Doesn't sound like you used much oil, mostly pellets. Maybe another pellet stove somewhere makes sense, dunno.

The real reason I'm revisiting your post is your underground description. 180-185F temps aren't that rare when the boiler's really putting out. Don't think I've ever heard of PVC lines or styrofoam being used. You may be looking at a standard polyurethane insulated Pex product which is common for these systems, but if you're really looking at PVC and styrofoam you may not have an underground. Which you need to understand to ultimately get a handle on your install costs down the road when you do pull the trigger.

Spending almost a grand/month for mid-50's warmth would be painful. But apparently your wife REALLY likes the house also. If you're spending ~$5k/season and freezing, the underground is correct, and you can get free wood.... a used EKO or BioMass as an interim solution would be appealing to me because you'd be looking at a 1 year payback and probably a warmer house till you swap out for your dream boiler. Lots of ifs.

Best wishes from another crazy old house lover.

Willman · Aug 4, 2015

I would check into hiring a energy guy with an infrared camera to image your roof and walls to determine which walls/stud bays have settled. Might not need the whole house done and would keep from over stuffing your new plaster.
I know its not period appropriate, but, I have made foam board window covers in former houses to help out with heat loss in addition to the plastic shrink wrap.

leon · Aug 5, 2015

My Buderus Logana G205 is about 110,000 BTU maxed out. if
you have an .80 nozzle you are burning 8 tenths of a gallon per hour.
It also explains why your boiler is running non stop when it is lit up.

According to Colgate Universities web page
Please keep this in mind:

A gallon of kerosene has 135,000 BTU per gallon.

A 275 gallon tank of kerosene will have perhaps 225 gallons of useable oil
to burn due to the crap fest from algae in the tank, so you have 30,375,000 BTU of heat

A ton of rice anthracite coal has approximately 25 million BTU per ton I spent $275.00 a ton plus
tax on 8 tons of rice coal.

SO with wood averaging 7,000 BTU per pound in ideal conditions 2000 pounds of" dry" firewood
is 14,000,000 BTU.

Just so you know, I priced a new Portage and Maine outdoor wood boiler and coal stoker boiler both and
I decided $17,000 was much more than I could or would want to spend even before installation.

leon · Aug 8, 2015

What happened to the OP????

Perhaps a finnish/russian stove is better answer?

The burn cleanly apparently and they are easy to take care of
with multiple ash pit doors to remove ash buildup from what I
have read about them.

JP11 · Aug 10, 2015

My house is similar is size, but new construction. I have a single buderus boiler. When temps hit 10.. the oil boiler would run 18 to 20 hours out of 24.

When I ran it on my home brew fuel, (7% less energy in biodiesel) it would run a constant 24 hours a day and BARELY be keeping up.

It's not my money.. but if it were me, I'd be looking at things that others have mentioned. Closing off rooms, air sealing, energy audit, calking the windows and then doing plastic. You gotta seal up that air loss. There's WAY more money to be saved in that kind of stuff. The solution of a massive wood boiler might LOOK like it's an easy fix. But it all takes WORK! If you're not going to get ahead and use dry wood, it takes even more work! You'll 'pay' for that inefficiency over and over and over again.

If you had a complete cold boiler and I assume you have radiators all over. Heck, just warming up all that water and steel is going to take a day. Don't get scared watching just one day of the boiler running. The day I decide to heat my slab in the basement for the first time in fall. It takes a complete load of the boiler, PLUS stored up tanks.. so 1.5mil BTUs or so to heat it up. Once it's warm, it's just keeping it warm that's a much smaller load.

Don't give up.. but do get some DATA! You need to know what you're dealing with. There's plenty to be done for cheap.

JP

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