2015-2016 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)

webby3650 said:

I sure hope you're right! I'm afraid that the "slower" convective heat from the Ashfords will have a hard time overcoming the heat loss through the masonry structures.
You did get the blowers I hope.

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Yep, got the blowers.

As to slower convective heating overcoming heat loss, I don't know. I look at it much differently. I have these enormous heat sinks as my exterior walls. They're un-insulated stone (as any proper old house is), which stay at 52F all winter long, whether it's 60F or 80F indoors, or 0F to 30F outdoors. If you put a radiant stove next to that heat sink, it's just going to suck up all the energy that you radiate toward it, leaving only a fraction of the heat you're producing for heating your home. At the same time, my boiler has relatively little trouble heating the same space from 60F to 70F in a short period of time, via convective copper fin-tube radiators. So, the key seems to be heating the air within. Forget ever trying to heat this space by radiating energy into the objects around the stoves, since 80% of the objects facing the stove are cold stone, well-sunk to earth.

I have hard data to back up this thinking, as the amount of wood I've consumed over the last four years has a BTU value several times the relatively small amount of oil I've saved. Burning 5 - 6 cords per year, I was saving maybe only 500 gallons per year, based on the short periods of no burning I have to compare. That amount of wood (all ash, oak, walnut) should have BTU equivalence to almost 1000 gallons of heating oil, so even though my estimated savings are definitely subject to debate, there's no arguing I was throwing away a large chunk of the heating coming off those Jotuls.

showrguy said:

You guys mind if I hang out in this thread too ???

Chris/BKVP, keep me in mind next time you're visiting dealers in central Pa.
Be nice to sit and have a beer...........or coffee !!

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Tequila

BKVP said:

Then, yes dare I say, Missouri!

Thank you all....

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Details?

It's nice to reload the stove only 2x a day in the dead of winter, getting out and enjoying the season is great without the heat pump or furnace coming on because of a missed reload. I tell ya, blaze king guys have all the fun

Tonight or Friday I get to slide the princess back onto the new hearth. Tomorrow is deep sea fishing in the Pacific. Temps in the house are getting down into the mid 60s and a small fire will happen soon.

I have an issue. The double wall appliance adapter has gotten stuck in the stove collar. I have an all vertical installation and installed the connector pipe tight to the ceiling. My theory is that as the connector pipe expanded from heat it drove the tapered appliance adapter into the collar really tight. Leave it be? Use a hammer to knock it out from below? It seems to be square and leak proof. If I ever had to replace the bypass gasket, it might be nice to have the adapter out of the way.

Highbeam said:

Tonight or Friday I get to slide the princess back onto the new hearth. Tomorrow is deep sea fishing in the Pacific. Temps in the house are getting down into the mid 60s and a small fire will happen soon.

I have an issue. The double wall appliance adapter has gotten stuck in the stove collar. I have an all vertical installation and installed the connector pipe tight to the ceiling. My theory is that as the connector pipe expanded from heat it drove the tapered appliance adapter into the collar really tight. Leave it be? Use a hammer to knock it out from below? It seems to be square and leak proof. If I ever had to replace the bypass gasket, it might be nice to have the adapter out of the way.

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Go fishing...let it be.

Highbeam said:

Tonight or Friday I get to slide the princess back onto the new hearth. Tomorrow is deep sea fishing in the Pacific. Temps in the house are getting down into the mid 60s and a small fire will happen soon.

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T'was 93F here, today, and almost humid enough to drink the air. The A/C is cranking.

BKVP said:

Long season ahead of us all. Thank you all for your patience...sometimes the wifi in jets doesn't always work. I do travel lots and lots and lots with Delta...all around the globe, so if I don't respond super quick, I may be running to catch a flight.

With that said, the brotherhood here at Hearth.com are second to none! (Except Begreen...I have to get him to get one of our stoves so he can "get it".)

Actually, Begreen, Webby, Poindexter and maybe one or two others have had to meet me in person at some point. I will be all over Montana and Northern Idaho in the coming weeks.

Then, yes dare I say, Missouri!

Thank you all....

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And next time you're in Maryland I'll try to meet you too!

Couple questions for you BK long duration burners:

1. When doing a low and slow burn (e.g. 24 hours), is the box black the whole time or does it periodically show flames?
2. If you set your thermostat to a setting that is high enough to show flames, what kind of burn times do you get?
3. If you pack your BK to the gills and set the thermostat on the lowest setting, is there ever a problem with stalling the cat or getting too high cat temps?

Thanks.

I cannot even tell if mine is burning at all from looking in the window (unless I look up at the cat combustor). I have to go by the cat temperature probe. I have a hard time even seeing any hot coaling material from the window, much less flames.

The first time I tried an overnight burn, I came down the next morning and looked in the window to find a few ash covered, half burnt looking logs left in a very clear firebox. It appeared to be stone cold and I thought it was dead until I checked the cat temp probe and found it was still well in the active range. Touched the stove top to be sure it was hot and then looked up at the catalyst and confirmed it was still glowing orange.

Even when I do stir up the wood during reloading, I do not find a lot of coals. The stove just seems to slowly gasify the wood and then burn the gases in the cat combustor to produce heat. I never see flames except when bringing it up to temperature on high fire. Once I turn down the thermostat, the flames go out pretty quick and I get a lot of smokiness in the firebox which gradually clears up. If you are showing flames, I don't think the burn times would be very impressive, but I always run on the lowest settings.

I have never seen it stall until it is out of fuel. The cat probe does start falling as it gets near the end of the run, I always try to reload before it goes inactive. I have never seen it get exceedingly hot either, though I suppose it is possible.

Here we go! Another year...I am a seasonal guy here and looking forward to being back around when it cools down! I am pulling the princess insert this weekend to install a new blanket on my liner and install a block off plate. Good thing I have a long weekend and the wife and kids will be out of town! Can't wait to get burning again to see what kind of difference the insulated liner will make.

Burning down my coals so I can shovel out the first pan of ashes after work tomorrow.

Isaiah53 said:

I never see flames except when bringing it up to temperature on high fire.

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What setting number is that on the thermostat and when burning high, what kinds of burn times are you getting?

Isaiah53 said:

I have never seen it get exceedingly hot either,

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I'd like to understand that one a bit more. With some stoves, turning the air down too low apparently produces too much smoke that can lead to high cat temps, but I have never read about this with BK stoves and I'm curious as to what prevents this.

Isaiah53 said:

I cannot even tell if mine is burning at all from looking in the window

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This must be quite a shock to those who switch over from non-cats to BKs!

Thanks. I'm hopeful that by understanding how the BK burns, it might help me determine the proper stove settings for maximizing my burn times.

Hey Everyone - I had posted this in the other thread which is now locked, so I am posting it over here:

Ill share what I was quoted locally...if anyone would care to respond, pm, etc.. their thoughts on the pricing that would also be a big help.

was told blaze princess insert -- $3200
Liner -1k (double wall insulated)
install 750

This is phone quote price...so no negotiation but I dont get the impression they will either.

Also can the barefoot Envi compressed bricks be burned in the Blaze King stoves without issue?

NYBurner said:

Hey Everyone - I had posted this in the other thread which is now locked, so I am posting it over here:

Ill share what I was quoted locally...if anyone would care to respond, pm, etc.. their thoughts on the pricing that would also be a big help.

was told blaze princess insert -- $3200
Liner -1k (double wall insulated)
install 750

This is phone quote price...so no negotiation but I dont get the impression they will either.

Also can the barefoot Envi compressed bricks be burned in the Blaze King stoves without issue?

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That's a very competitive price. The stove retails for $3,254 here in the Midwest. The labor is kinda high but the liner is priced very well. It's getting a little late in the season to get very much negotiation on price.

I burn with a little flame from Dec. to March. I generally see a single flame coming up from the middle of the load and some glowing coals. (heating about 2100 sq. ft. in Minnesota in a not so efficient home). I reload after 12 hours and usually have a couple of logs left at that point but I reload for convenience. 14 hours to 16 hours is probably the common burn times with flames on a king model.

On my stove (which I think is typical BK), a thermostat setting of "3-1/2" puts the damper wide open when cold. The thermostat coil will expand and reduce that setting as the temperature increases. I run at a setting of "1" which sets the damper about 15 degrees open when cold. I checked out the damper settings when I first received the stove because BKVP had indicated there were some issues from the factory at that time.

I turn the t-stat to 3-1/2 for light-off with the cat by-passed, and leave it that way until the catalyst temperature probe climbs into the active zone, which typically takes 30 minutes from a cold start. The firebox is full of flames during this time. Once the catalyst temperature is above active mark, I close the by-pass. I can see the catalyst start to glow almost immediately after this. After making sure catalyst temperature is still climbing, I turn the thermostat down to 1 in a few quick steps and the fire is never seen again. I have no experience how long it would burn if I left it at 3-1/2, but I doubt it would be more than 6 hours. I don't think many BK owners operate that way.

I reload the stove morning and night, and there is always still wood present. I could probably get 16 hours. I do not need to pack the stove full on this schedule. Three 6-7" diameter logs will last me 12 hours on low. I burn mostly beetle killed lodge pole pine and spruce that does not have nearly the density of freshly cut trees, much less hardwoods. Even though the burn times are not as high as others have reported, it keeps the relatively small 700 ft2 downstairs area at a steady and comfortable temperature of 73-75 F. BK users like to talk about burn times, but to me it is really just an indication of their great turndown capability, which I think is the real benefit. As others have pointed out, a BK cannot extract significantly more heat from a given load of wood than any other modern stove.

I recall BKVP commenting somewhere that very low moisture wood can lead to excessive cat temps. I just have never experienced it, even though my wood is 12-15% MC. I think the highest I have seen is maybe 75% of the active range on the probe.

Isaiah53 said:

I run at a setting of "1" which sets the damper about 15 degrees open when cold.

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That is helpful. So if I understand the t-stat operation correctly, once you are at your setting of "1", the most air the stove will be given is 15%. The flapper will then be opened or closed in this range of 0% to 15% air.

Isaiah53 said:

BK users like to talk about burn times

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Hadn't noticed

Isaiah53 said:

but to me it is really just an indication of their great turndown capability, which I think is the real benefit.

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I don't recall reading anything about a special air supply to the cat, so I am assuming the BK design provides air to the cat first before allowing any to flow to air wash the glass.

I'm inclined to believe that the t-stat is only one feature that helps the BK get the long burn times compared to other stoves. There must be firebox design and air supply design features that are also contributing. I would be curious to see what kind of burn times could be achieved by a BK with the t-stat disabled and running at a fixed air % say 7.5%.

HarvestMan said:

That is helpful. So if I understand the t-stat operation correctly, once you are at your setting of "1", the most air the stove will be given is 15%. The flapper will then be opened or closed in this range of 0% to 15% air.

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My experience is very limited, but that is the generally the way to appears to operate to me. When you adjust the external knob, you are definitely moving the damper directly and it appears to be linear. When it is at 12 o'clock it is closed, at a setting of "1" it is about 1 o'clock, at a 1-1/2 it is at 2 o'clock, and it goes up to 3-1/2 at 6 o'clock where the damper is wide open (90 degrees). The damper has about a half-inch diameter hole in it so the air flow is never totally blocked. I have not really studied the t-stat but it appears to be some type of metal coil that expands and contracts with temperature to rotate the damper further from the position set by the external knob. I have no idea how much adjustment it can make. I recall one post on here that claimed it was really not that much. I do think there is something in the air distribution as well that allows the high turndown. I have not studied how the air is routed in the BK. I would think the catalytic stoves might have an advantage over a secondary air burn stove with regard to turndown in that you do not have to deal with difficulty of adjusting both primary and secondary air flows.

HarvestMan said:

That is helpful. So if I understand the t-stat operation correctly, once you are at your setting of "1", the most air the stove will be given is 15%. The flapper will then be opened or closed in this range of 0% to 15% air.

Hadn't noticed

I don't recall reading anything about a special air supply to the cat, so I am assuming the BK design provides air to the cat first before allowing any to flow to air wash the glass.

I'm inclined to believe that the t-stat is only one feature that helps the BK get the long burn times compared to other stoves. There must be firebox design and air supply design features that are also contributing. I would be curious to see what kind of burn times could be achieved by a BK with the t-stat disabled and running at a fixed air % say 7.5%.

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No air supply for the cat and no worry about high cat temps at any setting.

He must be out Filleting Fish and has no time... He may have done well

Fastdonzi said:

He must be out Filleting Fish and has no time... He may have done well

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He has BK so he has lots of time!!