Kuuma worth it?

brenndatomu · Sep 22, 2015

JRHAWK9 said:
If you open up the door quickly after about an hour or so of a fresh load, you'll catch a glimpse of the bright blue flames in front and above the actual wood. What you are seeing is the tail end of the gassification, which quickly stops when the door is opened.

Ahahahahaha! Kinda like when you were a kid and you'd try to see if the fridge light stays on all the time...I can just picture JR in his basement whipping the door open tryin to sneak up on the gassification ;lol

That's why they don't put a winder in the door, they don't want anybody to see how the magic happens! (Joke)

Good to see a post from y'all @lampmfg , been a while. I'm sure you guys are busy and have better things to do than argue "best furnace" with us shmucks ::-)

dromlyn · Sep 22, 2015

Highbeam said:
That is good information and really critical to this discussion. We saw "about 3500$" earlier upthread but don't know if that includes the silly expensive blower. The efficiency of the max caddy is quite good and almost 5 CF of firebox is also nice. Still a dirty burner but EPA certified for most states.

That's a good question on the blower. I'm going to talk to the dealer tomorrow. I'll keep you guys informed on what I find out if you're interested.

lampmfg · Sep 22, 2015

brenndatomu said:
Ahahahahaha! Kinda like when you were a kid and you'd try to see if the fridge light stays on all the time...I can just picture JR in his basement whipping the door open tryin to sneak up on the gassification

That's why they don't put a winder in the door, they don't want anybody to see how the magic happens! (Joke)

Good to see a post from y'all @lampmfg , been a while. I'm sure you guys are busy and have better things to do than argue "best furnace" with us shmucks

I always enjoy reading what the passionate wood burners on here have to say. We have been very busy with furnaces and sauna stoves. I think all the positive PR of the health benefits on the latter have really increased awareness and sales ==c

Buzz Saw · Sep 22, 2015

lampmfg said:
I always enjoy reading what the passionate wood burners on here have to say. We have been very busy with furnaces and sauna stoves. I think all the positive PR of the health benefits on the latter have really increased awareness and sales

Health benefits from saunas,Can you elaborate?

Highbeam · Sep 22, 2015

If the EPA has a new test method for wood furnaces and the old EPA approved furnaces used the EPA stove test then will those certifications be rejected until the old EPA approved furnaces test and pass the new test? States like mine that still insist on a gph emissions rate will be unable to recognize the furnace EPA certification so will be stuck with no wood furnaces possible. Too bad really. The political machine is unlikely to fix these things when they see woodburners as a minority.

brenndatomu · Sep 22, 2015

dromlyn said:
That's a good question on the blower. I'm going to talk to the dealer tomorrow. I'll keep you guys informed on what I find out if you're interested.

If not with the blower, let me know, if you are in western PA, I can point ya in the right direction for a good deal on a "Max"

STIHLY DAN · Sep 22, 2015

Monaco said:
This video makes it seem like you'd have to go down to the furnace to adjust the house heat.Is there another normal thermostat that you could put upstairs to control the blower speed?

I noticed the blower has two speeds. Would there be a benefit of a variable-speed blower?

The Kuuma has a house thermostat, when it calls for heat the fan comes on in high. The fan most likely will be running in low anyhow. When the high speed fan runs it is pulling more heat out of the exchanger, the computer sees this and starts opening the damper in steps to keep the temp of the unit at its setting. The damper has 4 steps. The temp setting on the computer is for desired (need) for heat. 1 house may be bigger than another, Minnesota is much colder than NH so in MN they might run there unit on medium. This also helps in shoulder season. In my situation low on the computer is good till 0*. 10* if its also really windy at the time. I have mine on low 99.5% of the time. I also don't use the house T-stat unless it's below 0* outside, I prefer to let it just cruise on low fan constantly feeding easy heat. There is no temp swings at all.

Monaco · Sep 22, 2015

I noticed int he Kuuma video they recommend only putting three pieces of wood in warmer weather, instead of filling the box up.

STIHLY DAN said:
The Kuuma has a house thermostat, when it calls for heat the fan comes on in high. The fan most likely will be running in low anyhow. When the high speed fan runs it is pulling more heat out of the exchanger, the computer sees this and starts opening the damper in steps to keep the temp of the unit at its setting. The damper has 4 steps. The temp setting on the computer is for desired (need) for heat. 1 house may be bigger than another, Minnesota is much colder than NH so in MN they might run there unit on medium. This also helps in shoulder season. In my situation low on the computer is good till 0*. 10* if its also really windy at the time. I have mine on low 99.5% of the time. I also don't use the house T-stat unless it's below 0* outside, I prefer to let it just cruise on low fan constantly feeding easy heat. There is no temp swings at all.

It's posts like this that get us real excited about owning this furnace.

Question: Our wood this first year is going to be iffy... This winter I will be burning maple and oak that has been down for a year. I know this is not ideal - but will I be screwing anything up? What if I use all of the "wrist" sized round pieces instead of bigger, wetter splits?

Background: I have so much wood here that I don't think I want to spend upwards of $100/rick to get pre-seasoned (kiln-dried from the major suppliers is the only way you can be sure around here.)

Thanks so much for your advice.

Wisneaky · Sep 22, 2015

Monaco said:
I noticed int he Kuuma video they recommend only putting three pieces of wood in warmer weather, instead of filling the box up.

It's posts like this that get us real excited about owning this furnace.

Question: Our wood this first year is going to be iffy... This winter I will be burning maple and oak that has been down for a year. I know this is not ideal - but will I be screwing anything up? What if I use all of the "wrist" sized round pieces instead of bigger, wetter splits?

Background: I have so much wood here that I don't think I want to spend upwards of $100/rick to get pre-seasoned (kiln-dried from the major suppliers is the only way you can be sure around here.)

Thanks so much for your advice.

a moisture meter would be a good way to tell. Try to use wood under 20%. The maple might be okay if it has been split, but I'd stay away from the oak because that will need longer to dry.

JRHAWK9 · Sep 22, 2015

STIHLY DAN said:
When the high speed fan runs it is pulling more heat out of the exchanger, the computer sees this and starts opening the damper in steps to keep the temp of the unit at its setting.

While it's true you are pulling a bit more heat out of the heat exchanger when the blower goes to high but the temperature which the thermocouple inside the firebox sees is pretty much unfazed I'd think. As long as the firebox temps at the thermocouple meet whatever temperature corresponds to the level of burn you have it set at on the computer the damper will not open up......regardless of any change in heat exchanger, plenum and/or room temps. The computer has no way of knowing what the temperature is in the heat exchanger and the thermocouple is smack dab where most of the gassification takes place inside the firebox. It does have limit switches in the plenum, but those are just to control the blower motor. One to energize the blower motor circuit and one to kick it on high in case plenum temps get too hot. Maybe I misunderstood, but I interpreted what you wrote as the computer somehow sees a change in temp of the heat exchanger to help control the damper.

JRHAWK9 · Sep 22, 2015

brenndatomu said:
Ahahahahaha! Kinda like when you were a kid and you'd try to see if the fridge light stays on all the time...I can just picture JR in his basement whipping the door open tryin to sneak up on the gassification

lol....yep, that's pretty much what I was doing. I even tried to get a photo of it but it disappears too fast.

STIHLY DAN · Sep 22, 2015

JRHAWK9 said:
While it's true you are pulling a bit more heat out of the heat exchanger when the blower goes to high but the temperature which the thermocouple inside the firebox sees is pretty much unfazed I'd think. As long as the firebox temps at the thermocouple meet whatever temperature corresponds to the level of burn you have it set at on the computer the damper will not open up......regardless of any change in heat exchanger, plenum and/or room temps. The computer has no way of knowing what the temperature is in the heat exchanger and the thermocouple is smack dab where most of the gassification takes place inside the firebox. It does have limit switches in the plenum, but those are just to control the blower motor. One to energize the blower motor circuit and one to kick it on high in case plenum temps get too hot. Maybe I misunderstood, but I interpreted what you wrote as the computer somehow sees a change in temp of the heat exchanger to help control the damper.

When the heat exchanger cools, the fire box has to follow as it is part of the heat exchanger, Albeit slower than the upper exchanger.

STIHLY DAN · Sep 22, 2015

Monaco said:
I noticed int he Kuuma video they recommend only putting three pieces of wood in warmer weather, instead of filling the box up.

It's posts like this that get us real excited about owning this furnace.

Question: Our wood this first year is going to be iffy... This winter I will be burning maple and oak that has been down for a year. I know this is not ideal - but will I be screwing anything up? What if I use all of the "wrist" sized round pieces instead of bigger, wetter splits?

Background: I have so much wood here that I don't think I want to spend upwards of $100/rick to get pre-seasoned (kiln-dried from the major suppliers is the only way you can be sure around here.)

Thanks so much for your advice.

A big difference with the computer is that it will adjust to wetter wood. It will take more air to get things going and not gasify as much but the computer will constantly be adding air to the logs as needed to keep a hot fire. You will still be setting and forgetting as the unit will run itself.

JRHAWK9 · Sep 23, 2015

STIHLY DAN said:
When the heat exchanger cools, the fire box has to follow as it is part of the heat exchanger, Albeit slower than the upper exchanger.

yeah, I get that however I bet if you hook up a temp gauge to the thermocouple you wouldn't see much of a change in it's reading from when the blower switches from low to high. The thermocouple is measuring the combustion (air) temp inside the firebox and not the exterior temp of the firebox or surrounding metal. Plus the firebox is all fully ceramic lined and with firebrick on top of that.

I wonder if they make a gauge which is calibarted to work with our thermocouple? That would be another temp sample point I'd love to monitor.

sloeffle · Sep 23, 2015

I think the Kuuma is great furnace and definitely ahead of its time. I do however think someone with the ability to program an Arduino or Raspberry PI and has some wood burning knowledge could duplicate what they are doing. I have a friend that runs the damper on his Big Green Egg with a Raspberry PI to keep it at an optimal temp. We are not talking about rocket science here.

In my situation, I couldn't justify the 2k upcharge over a Caddy. If I was solely heating my house with wood then I could have justified the extra cost of the furnace. If you are just using the wood burning furnace as supplementary heat then I think a Tundra or a Caddy would be "good enough".

laynes69 · Sep 23, 2015

The smart stove controller only costs about 300.00 and can fully automate combustion with a pc and thermocouple. I've been on the fence for some time on doing this with our furnace. Once the technology can be adapted to a homes thermostat, I'm in.

lampmfg · Sep 23, 2015

Buzz Saw said:
Health benefits from saunas,Can you elaborate?

I've just seen an increase of articles, which is helping to get them more into the main stream. Mix that in with a lot of the cool designs you see (A lot of our customers have shared awesome one's that you can see on our Facebook page) and I see this market really expanding over the next 20 years (We probably sell 1 a month to Alaska). One of my buddies just got his first one at the lake cabin and likes it so much that he's going to put one in at his house.
http://www.newser.com/story/203145/could-using-a-sauna-help-you-live-longer.html
http://www.saunatimes.com/health-benefit/
http://www.finnleo.com/pages/health-and-wellness.aspx
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/8-unexpected-benefits-sauna-that-will-impress-you.html
http://www.lahealthyliving.com/health/the-truth-about-saunas-things-you-should-know/

brenndatomu · Sep 23, 2015

sloeffle said:
We are not talking about rocket science here.

Or are we? I know what you are saying, but if it were that easy to get low emissions and nothing but a lil white ash showing in the chimney at the end of the season everybody would have done it already

sloeffle said:
I do however think someone with the ability to program an Arduino or Raspberry PI and has some wood burning knowledge could duplicate what they are doing

But I do agree that someone like this could make improvements on most burners, dunno about duplicate

lampmfg · Sep 23, 2015

brenndatomu said:
Or are we? I know what you are saying, but if it were that easy to get low emissions and nothing but a lil white ash showing in the chimney at the end of the season everybody would have done it already

But I do agree that someone like this could make improvements on most burners, dunno about duplicate

Believe me I told my dad this many years ago and he laughed at me. Now he might not be the best or fully understand computers, but he told me the amount of hours/years of test burns he completed to get it where it's at now. Lets just say that he's put a lot of time into this and he still continues to fine tune it-he's a perfectionist.

sloeffle · Sep 23, 2015

brenndatomu said:
But I do agree that someone like this could make improvements on most burners, dunno about duplicate

Duplicate was probably the wrong word to use. Improve is probably a better choice.

In my last statement I was specifically referring to the computer controlled modulating damper system that they have. As @laynes69 pointed out, you can buy a retrofit kit that has a thermocouple and computer that will do the same thing. I bet that if you hooked something like that up to an already existing EPA approved wood furnace that you would get even better burn times.

@lampmfg - Do your furnaces have a DC motor in them that modulates based off of the heat load ?

STIHLY DAN · Sep 23, 2015

JRHAWK9 said:
yeah, I get that however I bet if you hook up a temp gauge to the thermocouple you wouldn't see much of a change in it's reading from when the blower switches from low to high. The thermocouple is measuring the combustion (air) temp inside the firebox and not the exterior temp of the firebox or surrounding metal. Plus the firebox is all fully ceramic lined and with firebrick on top of that.

I wonder if they make a gauge which is calibarted to work with our thermocouple? That would be another temp sample point I'd love to monitor.

You are 100% right. I forgot about/wasn't thinking about the insulated firebox.

STIHLY DAN · Sep 23, 2015

sloeffle said:
In my situation, I couldn't justify the 2k upcharge over a Caddy. If I was solely heating my house with wood then I could have justified the extra cost of the furnace. If you are just using the wood burning furnace as supplementary heat then I think a Tundra or a Caddy would be "good enough".

I agree whole heartedly, I would however be surprised if many Caddy or Kuuma owners are only using them as supplement heat. Then the question is what do people consider as supplement , probably a few different answers to that.

DaveH · Oct 2, 2015

JRHAWK9 said:
Be careful about listening to any dealer........they have vested interest and it's amazing how the products they happen to offer and make the most profit on are the best out there. ;-)

I agree with taking dealers for what they are. I had a dealer try to sway me away from a Kuuma and towards a Napoleon HMF 200. We agreed to disagree.

Wisneaky · Oct 2, 2015

STIHLY DAN said:
I agree whole heartedly, I would however be surprised if many Caddy or Kuuma owners are only using them as supplement heat. Then the question is what do people consider as supplement , probably a few different answers to that.

Mine supplements all my heating needs. Lol

Kuuma worth it?

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