Do you season wood until it's dry or until it stops drying?

fire_man said:

JRHawkr: Have you burned the 10 year vintage wood? How does it compare to 3 year seasoned wood for startup and burn time?

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no I haven't. This is only my second winter burning wood. I just knew I needed to get ahead so I made sure I did.

I don't think anyone here has really answered your question, everyone got side tracked telling you how far ahead they are. the initial question is kinda flawed to begin with though... in 3 years most of your wood will have reached equilibrium if properly stored. the 20% mark is a good base line and will get you some good burning wood in probably less than 2 years. in my opinion that's the "ok, its good to burn" point. i think the point that everyone has unknowingly made is that knowing your local equilibrium point really isn't important if your seasoning for 3 years plus. you also can never really be too far ahead though, its not a matter of seasoning past year 3, its a matter of having the fuel on hand. my personal situation allows me 2-3 years ahead. meaning all my wood will be seasoned and less then 20% (by the time it hits the stove i'm usually under 15%).
Side note, has anyone put a meter on logs cut from the top of standing dead tree? i mean dead dead too (standing for 5-10 years)... like bark gone, all that's left is that rock hard core wood. i've always burned that stuff same year but never hit it with the meter, it always just feels really dry and seems so light (although it is tough as nails to put a saw through). has that reached equilibrium? i probably have some i can put a meter on, but it's been covered and stacked since spring so the results would be flawed.

Woody harrelson said:

What the hell is a bush cord

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Never heard that particular term, but I know its tribe. It's one of those regional made up terms that means pretty much what any body thinks it means, which means, it means nothing.

The only legally defined measurement is a cord. No face cord, rick, bush cord, or any other bogus slang that may be used in a particular area. I watched a heated argument on one forum about what "rick" means, with 3 or 4 guys going at it hammer and tong insisting that their deficient was the "real" definition.

A cord is legally defined. The rest of those garbage terms should be thrown out like punky wood that's been sprayed by a skunk.

There is a lot of reading material out there if you want to get scientific about wood drying. But I think the people who accept the 3 yr rotation plan are simplifying all that science and math. Kind of jumping over it. Playing safe? Having faith?
You can argue about drying Oak in a shorter time than the 3 yr rotation, its not rediculously impossible. Its just easier to stack it (outside)and come back around 3 years later.
I top cover outside wood with scrap metal roofing and stack on pallets and it has a similar effect to the air drying done at lumber mills. Its a "close enough" science.
Everyones location varies as to water table, climate, humidity levels, length of seasons, rainfall etc...

NoGoodAtScreenNames...That is the best screen name I think I have ever seen.

I do not have a good answer to your question. I am limited on space and I have maybe 9-10 cord of wood. I do not have a shed and live in a fairly humid area. I also have to buy a majority of my wood as well so I have to buy early to ensure good moisture content. Moisture content will always be a challenge for me.
I am aiming for wood below 20% and that is why I have a stove with burn tubes as opposed to a cat. Burn tubes are more.forgiving with higher moisture content wood.
In a perfect world, I would go for getting the wood as dry as possible. My thoughts at this point...

at a minimum I am on a 4 year rotation. by that i mean what is being processed now will be available heat in 2020, that does not mean it will be used in 2020. the fuel for this year has been in the stacks for 4-5 years already with another 20 cord in the 3-4 age ( got into a mega scrounge so got way ahead) another group is in 2-3 bracket about 5 cord . another 5 plus cord in the 1.5 age and the current 5+ that i am working on now. Storage is now my difficulty- not the scrounging.
Got sidelined last fall so It was a good thing that I am way ahead. Back at it but on a reduced scale. in the past I have had Hickory and Oak that even after about 3 years still wasn't optimum in the new breed of stoves- resolved to correct that problem- which i have and then some so i can coast a bit more now.

JRHAWK9 said:

Trying to call my bluff, eh?
Here's about 35.5 of it, not counting the little pile of small ones at the right of the third pic and about a cord or two of pine/popple way to the left on the second pic below. There is also another stack of small ones not shown in this area. I started stacking here in Spring of '14. I only recently got a bunch of rubber roofing, so some of the earlier stuff is covered with tarps. It's not stacked in the best location, but we don't have any wide open areas, so it's all I could do. :-(

View attachment 163557 View attachment 163558 View attachment 163559

Here's 7.5 cord..stacked there 3-4 years: It was stacked way too tight, it was before I knew better.

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Here's the rest, these are not stacked on pallets or covered with rubber roofing, as it was stacked 2-3 years ago and I didn't have rubber roofing back then and before I knew any better to stack off the ground.

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In total I probably have a bit over 45 cord....maybe pushing 50, but I wanted to error on the pessimistic side and only count the hardwoods.

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Forget Superman, you are my new idol.

Well i think i finally have enough wood below 20% for the first time.. And already having issues where to store more. I have seen the diffrence in 30+, 25, and 20-% moisture.

My question and part of what i think the op was getting at is how much difference is there is 18-20 and say 14-16... I cant see needing 3 years the way my wood dries to get below 20 so is 3 years to get to the 14-16 range? And if so is there a noticable diffrence.

The way i see it there should be a % we should be striving for not a year... Yes 3 years might get you that mark but 1 year might get me that mark. Depends on alot of factors.

Nogood... If you would like to figure out when your wood has reached equilibrium I suggest that you toss the moisture meter and get a scale that is sensitive to a gram along with a sharpie for record keeping. Weigh some splits, track the weights. When their weight stops trending downwards you have come close to figuring out the equilibrium point of that piece of wood. Then keep weighing your samples for another year to get a handle on seasonal variations as they will go up and down. In the process you will probably figure out daily variations between sunny and cloudy days and the effect of RH and if wind is even a factor.

Thats not what i meant... I mean 3 years in one location is not the same as another... So for someone that can only store 1.5 years of wood... Doesnt mean they would see better results witg 3 year wood. So back to the fact is there a big diffrence in 15% to 20% in burn times and heat or are we really shootung for under 20.. Mainly wondering with people who say 3 year wood burns alot better thab 2 year... Its not the year storage its the mc.

Holy cow, that's a lot of wood! And to repeat fire man's post: How does the 10 year wood compare to 3 year seasoned wood?

NoGoodAtScreenNames said:

Has anyone that is three years ahead tested the difference in moisture between their 2 and 3 year wood? If so how much drier is the 3 year and do you think that difference matters in the stove?

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I've got 2011 - 2015 c/s/s wood. I'll try to get some Moisture readings for only Oak by next weekend. The biggest variable is the older splits unfortunately are the thinnest since I had a much smaller stove back then.

beatlefan said:

Holy cow, that's a lot of wood! And to repeat fire man's post: How does the 10 year wood compare to 3 year seasoned wood?

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Subscribing, for the results. I'm curious, but I doubt I'll ever have 10 year old wood. 4 maybe, 5 tops

NoGoodAtScreenNames said:

Are people using the third year to get to burnable wood (20%) or to the lowest point that you can make it.

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Speaking for myself, a bit of both. For me two year hardwood will burn well but still have some splits that hiss a bit (think 23-25%). After three year the moisture content will drop a notch more (maybe from avg of 20-22 down to 18%) and even the "bad" splits end up being pretty good. Plus as others have said 3 year rotation it takes some of the thinking and fussing out of it.

Now if you were strapped for space I believe you could come up with a system to get your 2 year as good as anything else. Focusing on stacking with open single rows for max airflow and full top covering would all work in your favor there.

I don't think anything will be efficient burning water.

I bought my wood, freshly split in early march this year (ash and walnut). I measured the weight of a few splits, logs were about 9-11 lbs. 2 weeks ago I re measured them (I intended to measure a few points over the year, but with little kids just didn't get to it). Now, each log has lost, about 3lbs. That's just HUGE! That is about a half gallon! If I loaded my stove with 4 or 5 splits, that's effectively burning a fire with 2 gallons of water in it! Jeez, no wonder green wood doesn't burn well.... moisture meters are nice, but I didn't understand the volume of water.

I also shoot for 12% - 15%, depending on species, location of stacks, whether covered, semi covered, uncovered it takes different amounts of time to get to that number, I go for dryness, but I also have an ample supply in different area's of the yard so I have the advantage of being able to pick and choose depending on what's ready.

D8Chumley said:

Subscribing, for the results. I'm curious, but I doubt I'll ever have 10 year old wood. 4 maybe, 5 tops

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I am also curious if anybody out there has noticed issues with over-seasoned wood, cause I've read that when wood gets too dry it won't be as efficient. I only have one season's experience with a wood stove so I don't have any experience with wood that has been sitting around for many seasons, and the ash I have been burning is mostly in the 16 - 18% range.

hamslam42 said:

I am also curious if anybody out there has noticed issues with over-seasoned wood, cause I've read that when wood gets too dry it won't be as efficient. I only have one season's experience with a wood stove so I don't have any experience with wood that has been sitting around for many seasons, and the ash I have been burning is mostly in the 16 - 18% range.

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Can't remember where I read it, but I read somewhere that the problem with wood that is too dry is that the "fuel" (can't remember the right term) comes out of the wood too fast and there's not enough air coming in to burn it all, so you get a smoky fire.

So, if you want to get maximum amount of heat from your very dry wood and keep a clean chimney, you have to up the air supply significantly and end up having a raging hot fire for just a short duration, with the effect of over-heating your stove/fireplace.

Keeping wood with some moisture in it (15-20% range) slows down the release of fuel such that the incoming air can burn all of it, result in a "clean" burn that doesn't get your stove cherry red. Granted, you lose some of the heat to boiling off the remaining water, but it doesn't require fancy materials or an exotic set-up to keep your stove from melting itself down into scrap.

I suppose the gasifiers and so on are rated to handle this kind of heat and maybe you could run kiln-dried wood in them without an issue. I haven't dug into that part of it very much. Or maybe a coal stove too? I know coal burns hotter than wood, but I assume the rate of heat output over time is similar to a wood stove.

hamslam42 said:

I am also curious if anybody out there has noticed issues with over-seasoned wood

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There have been several threads about very dry wood burning dirty. Goes up so quick that the smoke/gases overwhelm the capacity of the secondary burn system. Still will take too dry wood since I always seem to have plenty of wet wood around I can use as a mixer-

ElmBurner said:

Can't remember where I read it, but I read somewhere that the problem with wood that is too dry is that the "fuel" (can't remember the right term) comes out of the wood too fast and there's not enough air coming in to burn it all, so you get a smoky fire.

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It's called off gassing, and yes you are correct that wood that's below 8% posses a problem in newer stoves, especially epa air tube re-burn types, certain cat stoves are a little more forgiving because they can limit the combustion air coming into the stove, thus slowing down the whole burning process.

Just send all that wood that is "too dry to burn" in a "modern stove" to me and I'll spend my Winters disposing of it for you.
No charge.