room temp/auto & longer blower time.

Bioburner · Oct 25, 2015

Tonyray said:
I prefer that the hot air still be pushed into my room so tell me why I would want to use room/manual

But if the fan is pushing the heat off the exchanger isn't there a need for more fuel instead of just radiating some heat? I know I have observed a flame in idle that's barely an inch above the coals and wonder if its going to go out. (manual mode)

Zeus · Oct 25, 2015

Tonyray said:
ok.. most replys are preferences which doesn't get to the answer so I'll give you a shot since your explanation is good.
In room/auto right now and the flame is ramped down to few inches above the pellets..
dist blower is still pushing very hot air into the room..
now if I switch to manual, the blower shuts off and all that hot air is NOW going out the exhaust into the chimney.. ESP probe is satisfied I am told.. ok.. get it.
I prefer that the hot air still be pushed into my room so tell me why I would want to use room/manual [excluding] the obvious reasons of " stove will not shut off/faster recovery" and "less Igniter wear"... the blower keeps going longer in room/auto as u described.

Because there is no temperature swing in room manual. The stove won't shut off allowing the room to cool making me feel cold til it turns back on, when the stove kicks back on in room/ auto it heats the room a few degrees higher than my set temp making me feel hot. In room manual the t-stat stays at my set temp day or night not feeling cool or hot at any time just enjoying the exact temp I have set

Tonyray · Oct 25, 2015

Bioburner said:
But if the fan is pushing the heat off the exchanger isn't there a need for more fuel instead of just radiating some heat? I know I have observed a flame in idle that's barely an inch above the coals and wonder if its going to go out. (manual mode)

Could be throwing a few pellets in while it's ramping down but I don't think so..
I just know in auto & and my flame is same as you described, it's like it is squeezing every bit of heat left off of the exchanger. eventually, the blower will stop.
I'm not against manual mode but cannot ignore this blower thing lasting longer in auto...

Zeus said:
Because there is no temperature swing in room manual. The stove won't shut off allowing the room to cool making me feel cold til it turns back on, when the stove kicks back on in room/ auto it heats the room a few degrees higher than my set temp making me feel hot. In room manual the t-stat stays at my set temp day or night not feeling cool or hot at any time just enjoying the exact temp I have set

I'm looking at it now and all I have is smoldering pellets and the blower is still pushing warm air into the room.
in manual the blower would have stopped long before now.
[but I understand your explanation of how it works..]
last question: how is stove temp/ different than room/manual.. both seem to do the same thing to me.

Zeus · Oct 25, 2015

Room manual is driven by your temp probe that resides in the room with you and your set temp. Stove temp auto is driven by the esp that resides inside the stove and your set stove temp, in stove temp it doesn't care what the room temp probe is at it only cares about the temp inside the stove. So it could be 90* inside your house and the stove will still be cranking out the heat to maintain a stove temp you have set.

Zeus · Oct 25, 2015

Although I feel it is more economical to run room/auto this time of year when it's warmer and I do, I'm more comfortable when it gets cold enough to run in room manual.

TheMightyMoe · Oct 25, 2015

Everyone is different, but I would agree that Room temp / Auto is the most effective way to run the stove.
The blower is going to run until all that heat is sucked out of the stove.

For most people it is about comfort and many prefer manual over auto.

The other argument is Igniter wear from auto, for me, replacing a 70$ part every 2-3 years, is acceptable.

Tonyray · Oct 25, 2015

TheMightyMoe said:
Everyone is different, but I would agree that Room temp / Auto is the most effective way to run the stove.
The blower is going to run until all that heat is sucked out of the stove.

For most people it is about comfort and many prefer manual over auto.

The other argument is Igniter wear from auto, for me, replacing a 70$ part every 2-3 years, is acceptable.

The blower is going to run until all that heat is sucked out of the stove.
that is pretty much where this discussion started.....
on my 3rd year now and still find reasons to stay with or switch modes... !!!

100% agreement on room/auto from now till steady fridgid temps.. shoulder season...
will see how that mode goes in the those cold days coming up..
although I know that in room/auto, the stove will prob not ever shut off [at least in my not well Insulated house] which is a good thing IF it is going to keep the dist blower going till the cows come home as I stated.
note: not to gum this up any more but have read that if you have a not well insulated house, your heat loss is greater than it's recovery and Stove or Constant mode is the way to go. yikes!!

bogieb · Oct 26, 2015

Tonyray said:
ok.. most replys are preferences which doesn't get to the answer so I'll give you a shot since your explanation is good.
In room/auto right now and the flame is ramped down to few inches above the pellets..
dist blower is still pushing very hot air into the room..
now if I switch to manual, the blower shuts off and all that hot air is NOW going out the exhaust into the chimney.. ESP probe is satisfied I am told.. ok.. get it.
I prefer that the hot air still be pushed into my room so tell me why I would want to use room/manual [excluding] the obvious reasons of " stove will not shut off/faster recovery" and "less Igniter wear"... the blower keeps going longer in room/auto as u described.

Well, you wouldn't since you don't want to waste heat and don't mind the temp swing.

F4jock · Oct 26, 2015

bogieb said:
Well, you wouldn't since you don't want to waste heat and don't mind the temp swing.

I still maintain that the temp swing you perceive in Room Auto ls due to poor temperature sensor placement and / or trying to make a point-source of heat maintain an even temperature throughout a large, convoluted area. My setup maintains a two degree delta 25 or so feet from the stove. At the stove it's warmer, naturally, and in this season I prefer to save the pellets. The majority of the heat going up the chimney in order to keep the temlerature within one degree is not my idea of efficient operation. When it gets colder the stove will pretty much run all night which negates the need to switch to Manual.

If you want better heat distribution in Auto, invest in a room temperature sensor extension wire. They can be had cheaply on Ebay. Relocate your sensor closer to the point where you want to maintain temperature and enjoy.

bogieb · Oct 26, 2015

F4jock said:
I still maintain that the temp swing you perceive in Room Auto ls due to poor temperature sensor placement and / or trying to make a point-source of heat maintain an even temperature throughout a large, convoluted area. My setup maintains a two degree delta 25 or so feet from the stove. At the stove it's warmer, naturally, and in this season I prefer to save the pellets. The majority of the heat going up the chimney in order to keep the temlerature within one degree is not my idea of efficient operation. When it gets colder the stove will pretty much run all night which negates the need to switch to Manual.

If you want better heat distribution in Auto, invest in a room temperature sensor extension wire. They can be had cheaply on Ebay. Relocate your sensor closer to the point where you want to maintain temperature and enjoy.

I am trying to figure out why you are trying to convince everyone that you are doing what is right for you. I don't disagree that what you are doing works well for you and am not trying to convince you to do anything else (even though you seem to be asking someone to do that convincing - just my read on it). I have my stoves at room temp / auto also at present, others are running theirs in a different mode because that is what works for them. Just as we all know heat rises so a basement stove is the best - except for in my house (and some other people's houses), where heat doesn't rise for cr*p - different modes will work differently in effect and efficiency.

As an aside, I don't know why Harman folk have this argument so often, I never once saw any of the St. Croix people having an argument on which of the 3 modes they should/should not be using.

F4jock · Oct 26, 2015

bogieb said:
I am trying to figure out why you are trying to convince everyone that you are doing what is right for you. I don't disagree that what you are doing works well for you and am not trying to convince you to do anything else (even though you seem to be asking someone to do that convincing - just my read on it). I have my stoves at room temp / auto also at present, others are running theirs in a different mode because that is what works for them. Just as we all know heat rises so a basement stove is the best - except for in my house (and some other people's houses), where heat doesn't rise for cr*p - different modes will work differently in effect and efficiency.

As an aside, I don't know why Harman folk have this argument so often, I never once saw any of the St. Croix people having an argument on which of the 3 modes they should/should not be using.

Not trying to "convince" anyone, just trying to point out that this is not a defect and can be "cured" if one wishes.

Zeus · Oct 26, 2015

In room/auto the temp variance reported from harman is 4*. I believe the temp swing is purposely programmed so the stove will shut down and not cycle as often.

Bioburner · Oct 26, 2015

Zeus said:
the temp variance reported from harman is 4*.

In the perfect room etc etc

bogieb · Oct 26, 2015

F4jock said:
Not trying to "convince" anyone, just trying to point out that this is not a defect and can be "cured" if one wishes.

Not sure anyone said that was a defect, or at least I don't remember if they did. When my cinder block walls and concrete floor lose heat, they are a bear to heat back up. So, running the stove in room temp/ manual, during the deep of winter means that they never get the chance to get cold, but my stove isn't shutting down to immediately start back up again 24/7. I have done the experiment, and run thru a lot more pellets than if I let it simmer. My circumstances are not yours (I am trying to heat the whole house for example - and not using other methods for other parts of the house).

As to your question of why you would want to run it in manual - I hold to my answer, You wouldn't because of how you use your stove. Others use their stoves differently.

Cory S · Oct 26, 2015

Stove temp auto FTW.... (During true heating season) (starts in a few weeks)

F4jock · Oct 26, 2015

D

bogieb said:
Not sure anyone said that was a defect, or at least I don't remember if they did. When my cinder block walls and concrete floor lose heat, they are a bear to heat back up. So, running the stove in room temp/ manual, during the deep of winter means that they never get the chance to get cold, but my stove isn't shutting down to immediately start back up again 24/7. I have done the experiment, and run thru a lot more pellets than if I let it simmer. My circumstances are not yours (I am trying to heat the whole house for example - and not using other methods for other parts of the house).

As to your question of why you would want to run it in manual - I hold to my answer, You wouldn't because of how you use your stove. Others use their stoves differently.

Describing you house I can see why you do what you do but the engineer in me would be curious to see your results if you located the sensor farther from the stove. What can I say? I like to play with things!

F4jock · Oct 26, 2015

Zeus said:
In room/auto the temp variance reported from harman is 4*. I believe the temp swing is purposely programmed so the stove will shut down and not cycle as often.

If you locate the room sensor properly the stove will seldom shut off, even in Room / Auto. Far enough away from the stove the temp cools enough to trigger feed and burn before it can. Of course near the stove will then be warmer but since most seem to be using the stove for heating an area farther away and down halls or up stairs this is the only way you can do it using a point-source for heat.

F4jock · Oct 26, 2015

Tony, when you say the blower keeps blowing does it stay at a constant speed until it stops or slowly ramp down?

Tonyray · Oct 26, 2015

F4jock said:
Tony, when you say the blower keeps blowing does it stay at a constant speed until it stops or slowly ramp down?

slowly ramps down..but I should add that even at it's lowest,[pellet Embers glowing] it is Still very hot air blowing out.

F4jock · Oct 26, 2015

Intetesting. My distribution blower turns completely off under the same circumstances. Embers present for some time afterwards. Combustion blower stays on for a long time tho. Doesn't really distribute any heat.

Tonyray · Oct 26, 2015

F4jock said:
Interesting. Mine turns completely off under the same circumstances.

to be More accurate, there is some flame floating around in the smoldering embers...
at some point the blower must go out but I have Not watched it past the point I just mentioned..
I would come by the stove and notice that it had eventually shut down.

F4jock · Oct 26, 2015

You sure it's the distribution blower and not the combustion blower?

TheMightyMoe · Oct 27, 2015

I'm pretty sure the distribution blower stays on in automatic/room temperature until the stove is almost out. This is my general experience.

It's around a 5 degree differential with the Harman, so unless you place the sensor properly, it will 5*swing constantly.

JUST FYI:

AUTO & ROOM TEMP MODE - Setting the auto / manual switch to auto and the mode selector knob to room temp will allow for automatic control. The stove will heat to satisfy the room sensing probe to the temperature set on the temp dial. As the room sensing probe approaches the temperature set on the temp dial the control will automatically cut back the feed rate to keep from over shooting the set point. If the room sensing probe reaches 3 degrees above the temperature set point the stove will go into shut down mode. When the room sensing probe senses 2 degrees below the temperature set point the stove will re-ignite and heat to satisfy the room sensing probe.

F4jock · Oct 28, 2015

TheMightyMoe said:
I'm pretty sure the distribution blower stays on in automatic/room temperature until the stove is almost out. This is my general experience.

It's around a 5 degree differential with the Harman, so unless you place the sensor properly, it will 5*swing constantly.

JUST FYI:

AUTO & ROOM TEMP MODE - Setting the auto / manual switch to auto and the mode selector knob to room temp will allow for automatic control. The stove will heat to satisfy the room sensing probe to the temperature set on the temp dial. As the room sensing probe approaches the temperature set on the temp dial the control will automatically cut back the feed rate to keep from over shooting the set point. If the room sensing probe reaches 3 degrees above the temperature set point the stove will go into shut down mode. When the room sensing probe senses 2 degrees below the temperature set point the stove will re-ignite and heat to satisfy the room sensing probe.

Curious about that wide diff. When I installed my new Platinum board this fall there was a dipswitch setting that stated it would give a 1* diff for room sensor when in the ON position. Although I haven't measured the temp diff at the sensor, my setup gives me two degrees variation at over 20 feet from the stove. Are you maybe referring to the older board?

TheMightyMoe · Oct 31, 2015

F4jock said:
Curious about that wide diff. When I installed my new Platinum board this fall there was a dipswitch setting that stated it would give a 1* diff for room sensor when in the ON position. Although I haven't measured the temp diff at the sensor, my setup gives me two degrees variation at over 20 feet from the stove. Are you maybe referring to the older board?

Could be, they may also have used a larger differential to increase efficiency ratings, hence the option for the a smaller differential with a dipswitch. After all the ESP is just providing resistance, the board decides what to do from there.

room temp/auto & longer blower time.

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