We need an energy miracle

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Affordability. Practicality. The Nissan Leaf is selling for $21,510 locally, and 16,510 right now with Nissan financing. Red states Tennessee and Georgia are in the top 10 electric car states. I was surprised to see that WA state apparently is #1.
 
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jharkin said:
If you think New England is a problem how are you going to get all the red states to buy into clean energy and electric vehicles?
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I see plenty of Teslas on the road in FL, a state run by a Red governor + Red legislature... As for buying clean energy, most of this red state has no choice, our monopolized electric companies have been adding solar generation facilities and selling it to us for the same rate as fossil fuel based energy. The utility shareholders simply get more return on the rate payer's investment when we buy rebranded sunshine.

My PV system simply cut out the middle man and pays me for sunny days.
 
begreen said:
Affordability. Practicality. The Nissan Leaf is selling for $21,510 locally, and 16,510 right now with Nissan financing. Red states Tennessee and Georgia are in the top 10 electric car states. I was surprised to see that WA state apparently is #1.
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Indeed. Nissan says the Leaf Gen 2 (in 2017) will be 2x the range (probably at least 170 miles EPA real world range) for the price of the current model MSRP....or $29k before rebates. A couple years after that, they will be more affordable on the used market.
 
jharkin said:
Well to carry on the crabiness... if you think New England is a problem how are you going to get all the red states to buy into clean energy and electric vehicles?
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A lot of those red states have better energy policies than MA today. There is more wind power in TX than CA, and MA is bringing up the rear. I think west texas is doing more for wind power roll-out than cape wind.

When the value proposition is there, things can become less political.
 
woodgeek said:
A lot of those red states have better energy policies than MA today. There is more wind power in TX than CA, and MA is bringing up the rear. I think west texas is doing more for wind power roll-out than cape wind.

When the value proposition is there, things can become less political.
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Agree, cheapness is purple.
 
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People look to throw money at things without thinking it through. I've been able to cut my electric bill by 40% this year with about $3000 worth of home improvements. Mostly storm doors and new appliances. I replaced many of my lights with LEDs, but they were just icing on the cake. The refrigerator was the main culprit.

Spend the money intelligently on conservation and you'll get a much bigger bang for the buck. Most of the houses in my area don't have any insulation in the walls and ceiling. Spend $2000 blowing in cellulose and watch their bills plummet. Cut their heating bills in half and then watch the dynamics of the household change. With a 6 month long heating season those old houses could save thousands each year. Which could save us thousands since we are probably contributing to their heating through subsidies.
 
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The miracle was occurring during the Jimmy Carter administration, Unfortunately Ronald Reagan made the somewhat infamous statement prior to even taking office that he was going to cancel all renewable incentives as "our good friends the arabs had told him they would supply us all the oil we need"
 
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Its taking longer than anyone thought to suck every last drop of oil out of the ground,thanks to fracking ,but eventually it will happen. We should be well on out way to alternatives by then.
 
EatenByLimestone said:
Most of the houses in my area don't have any insulation in the walls and ceiling. Spend $2000 blowing in cellulose and watch their bills plummet.
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I find it incredible that in a cold-winter state like New York, there could be anybody left who wouldn't have added at least moderate insulation to their house.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
Its taking longer than anyone thought to suck every last drop of oil out of the ground,thanks to fracking ,but eventually it will happen. We should be well on out way to alternatives by then.
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But if we do suck every last drop out and burn it, the earth will have warmed so much it wont matter.
 
I haven't the slightest use for this or any other rich hypocritical do-gooder telling the rest of us how to live, based on fishy theories.
 
iamlucky13 said:
I find it incredible that in a cold-winter state like New York, there could be anybody left who wouldn't have added at least moderate insulation to their house.
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Theres still people who have no idea what insulation even looks like let alone if their house has any. ID estimate only about 60 % of houses or less, in my area are fully insulated. These houses were built from 70 to 120 years ago so its all retrofit. they didnt have indoor plumbing or bathrooms at the time either.
 
jharkin said:
But if we do suck every last drop out and burn it, the earth will have warmed so much it wont matter.
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I dont think theres any reversing that no matter what we do, a comet or a volcanic eruption will change the whole equation may offset the warming or even more.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
Theres still people who have no idea what insulation even looks like let alone if their house has any. ID estimate only about 60 % of houses or less, in my area are fully insulated. These houses were built from 70 to 120 years ago so its all retrofit. they didnt have indoor plumbing or bathrooms at the time either.
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That's exactly what we have here too.

Compounding the age of the house issue is the lack of education of the owner. Or the house is a rental and the owner has no want or desire to fix it up as it cuts into the profit margin.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
volcanic eruption will change the whole equation
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Common myth that just wont die... volcanic activity in any given year is only a small fraction of human emissions.

This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value.
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from http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/archive/2007/07_02_15.html



But I do agree that human nature will probably mean we burn every last drop, consequences be dammed.
 
EatenByLimestone said:
That's exactly what we have here too.

Compounding the age of the house issue is the lack of education of the owner. Or the house is a rental and the owner has no want or desire to fix it up as it cuts into the profit margin.
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I disagree, I own a 200 year house and have done extensive insulating and tightening up. Ive lowered my bills over 40% since Ive lived here.

I am lucky to live in a state that subsidizes such work. Many sates dont and the upfront cost can take a long time to pay back if you gotta pay it all out of pocket. Or the programs are their and just push measures that have a negative ROI like replacement windows.

But being on a number of old house boards in my experience old home owners are very attuned to the costs of heating and cooling old houses and do all they can to improve, without destroying the historic character.
 
I'm not talking about historic homes. I was thinking about the thousands of homes that line the city streets around here. Most were made between 1900 and 1950.
 
jeffesonm said:
and Keeping Up With the Kardashians.
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Did Kim get a new even weirder dress? I don't have TV so you guys need to keep me up to date.
 
If the goal is to satiate human greed and excess, then no amount of energy will be sufficient. Perhaps what is more needed is development of a sense of well being and enough, along with a realization that stuff is ephemeral but what is eternal are things like the worth of every person, equal opportunity and justice for all, and acceptance of each person for who or what the person is.
 
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jebatty said:
If the goal is to satiate human greed and excess, then no amount of energy will be sufficient. Perhaps what is more needed is development of a sense of well being and enough, along with a realization that stuff is ephemeral but what is eternal are things like the worth of every person, equal opportunity and justice for all, and acceptance of each person for who or what the person is.
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The problem is that our economy is built on the premise of perpetual growth. There is no model I'm aware of where capitalism works in a steady state system.

We know that someday population growth has to stop or its game over... but I fear we are in for a real shock to the system when it finally happens.
 
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jharkin said:
Common myth that just wont die... volcanic activity in any given year is only a small fraction of human emissions.

d.
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Was talking eruption not regular year to year activity. A few years ago we did have an eruption that lowered the global temp by 1 degree i read somewhere. We will get more of those at some point.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
Was talking eruption not regular year to year activity. A few years ago we did have an eruption that lowered the global temp by 1 degree i read somewhere. We will get more of those at some point.
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Read the article I posted. Another sub page on that site https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php has a chart showing it would take 3,500 mount St. Helens size eruptions to equal just one year of human emissions.

What you are probably thinking of is the short term cooling caused by particulates and sulphur dioxide from a big one (Pinatubo?) . Thats significant, but the effect is temporary and dissipates. We would need a continual sting of them every couple years to offset CO2 warming, and that would cause other havoc with the environment. The effect of yearly CO2 just keeps compounding.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
We already have the solutions to clean energy production. The difference in my electric rates between coal power and renewables is 1 or 2 cts a Kwh.
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...with MASSIVE government subsidy. That is not affordable or scale able.
Wind and solar are also very localized. Many places have little sun and wind.
The answer is nuclear.
I've worked in many different energy industries, including wind. Wind falls on its face without taxpayer money.

Electric cars? More like coal cars.
 
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