Low on firewood and money, need advice

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WouldBurn

New Member
Nov 3, 2015
8
Everett, WA
Hello one and all. This is my first post here. I've been burning wood for a few years in this little Pacific Energy fireplace insert woodstove. On the first year, without really knowing what I was doing I used unseasoned (partly-seasoned, technically) firewood. This was for a couple of months one winter and we kept the fire hot, although it kept going out and smoking up the house.

After reading about how important it is to dry it out, I was happy to see a much better result the next year. However, the persnickety little fire kept going out from time to time, which would necessitate me opening the door to rearrange the sticks, which would then blow a gigantic amount of smoke into the house no matter how slowly and carefully the door was opened.

This year I thought I had gotten my technique down but there are still instances when the fire goes out and there's no choice but for me to smoke up the house just to get it going again. I would like to get it so that I don't do this anymore, ever. I have asthma, which could slowly kill me, but even worse, my girlfriend is gettin' mad! Just playing. But it's obvious that she doesn't appreciate it and neither do my lungs.

We got our woodstove new for around $3000 on the notion that eventually it would pay for itself. And after factoring in all the variables, including how much we would save vs cranking the electric heat to match the increased room temperature, and also the comfort this increased temperature provides us (inbetween smoking episodes, where I have to turn on the fans and it becomes cold again), we're wondering if this little stove is really, truly worth it.

The sad part is, this winter we're out of money and our seasoned firewood supply is dwindling. So that $3000 is really starting to be missed at this point. I'm working on a pile for next year but that stuff is wet as a sponge. For one thing I don't have a good splitting surface, so it's looking rather muddy on the ends so far. I wonder if it would be worth it to keep splitting like I'm doing or wait until I can find a pallet or something and fashion a splitting surface myself.

But, for this year I have logs to last maybe a month or two, depending on how it's used. So it is perhaps in my efforts to make the firewood last longer that I am allowing it to go out. I could make a hotter fire but that would mean no more for the year, and back to expensive electric heat.

So I suppose my main questions are: do I have to choose between spending all my time stirring the fire and smoking up the house just to conserve firewood, versus turning up the air and getting my time back but letting it burn away early? Is there a way I could save wood and close the vents but still have a fire that lasts for hours and doesn't go out? In my situation, do I want to use more, less, or a moderate amount of firewood in my small woodstove?

I am using well-seasoned firewood. I don't know the species. I am wearing many hats right now and I don't necessarily want to become an arborist as well. If it's important enough I can take photos of the firewood, but it seems as if it burns well when it's nice and hot, or when I have it arranged perfectly. If there are any firemaking tricks you guys could give me I would appreciate that as well. I've been reading about the top-down method and I wonder if that'll be a good way to do things.

A little more background, I have burned wood in a larger woodstove with a greater supply and it was much easier. That was for a bigger house though, and this small little woodstove can turn our 900-something-ft2 house into a sauna, granted we have enough wood to do it with. I can maintain a little fire if I keep coming back and stirring it every hour, but I sure could be doing great things with the time I spend making perfect stacks of sticks while smoke pours into the house.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance. By the way I am reading the mountain of threads recommended in the sticky. It's taking time but I'll try to commit it to memory.
 
I think you should continue what you're doing and in addition give your chimney flue a very thorough sweep. I have a feeling that will help immensely.
 
First of all, if you need dry wood for cheap and soon, I'm not sure what else there is to do than keep on eye out on craigslist or similar for people getting rid of construction scraps, pallets, etc.

If you're getting lots of smoke in the house consistently when you open the door, my first suspicion is you aren't getting a good draft. How tall is your chimney, and what type is it?

When you are dealing with a smoky fire, I find it helps to crack the door 1/4 or 1/2 inch for a couple seconds before opening it all the way. The small amount of extra air usually helps re-energize the fire without being so much it cools it down. This can help re-establish a weak draft and avoid smoking up your room.

You may also be choking down the air too much, too early, in an attempt to keep temperatures down. I think what you would want to do instead is practice keeping smaller loads burning for longer. Be aware that a small load of small splits can burn pretty intensely because the small pieces expose a lot of surface area to burn. Larger splits are better for a longer, cooler burn, but harder to get and keep going.

Also, it hasn't been particularly cold yet so far this year here in western Washington. You should have less trouble with overheating your house as we get into winter, and let you burn in a way that gets you the best efficiency out of your stove. Especially with your tight wood supply, I think saving your burning for the actual cold days is your best strategy, and that's when your fire will save you the most on electricity.

Top down starts may help your fire get going, but once it's going, how you started it doesn't matter.

As for splitting, I don't think a pallet will be a good surface. The impacts will break it up pretty quickly. I split on the gravel on my driveway, with a large round to set the piece I'm splitting on, both because I find the elevated position more ergonomic, and to keep my maul from hitting the ground.
 
Sounds like you need to give your fire more air, or get it up to temp, there's no reason to be smoking out the stove room. Any reason you can't go process your own standing dead/ dead fall? If you have more money than time, buy some wood, if you have more time than money, go cut it.
 
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When was the chimney and cap last cleaned? If it's filthy from burning wet stuff, that can cause your problems.
 
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Some possible causes of the smoke spillage into the house and some questions:
• chimney or flue cap clogging (when did the chimney and flue cap last get thoroughly cleaned?)
• negative pressure in the room (try opening a nearby window to see if that helps and the fire improves)
• too short chimney? (how tall is it?)
• stubbed direct connect instead of a full chimney liner (is there a full 6" liner in the chimney?)
• leaky fit at the liner connection to the insert
 
I hate to sound like a jerk but sometimes it just comes natural for me, I mean no offense, but you probably should have went with a Tractor Supply or Home Depot stove, probably $1000 installed with liner, if you're complaining about your $3000 stove and having no money.....you say you have a stove and also an insert, to me they are 2 different things, an insert is inserted into your fireplace opening, a stove is not inserted into anything. I looked long and hard at all the PE models before I bought mine, which one do you have? You need to get a hot bed of coals going on the first load, meaning running it pretty much wide open with the air, read your manual again, it's very specific on re-loading. The reloaded wood must be charred for 5 to 10 minutes before you choke it down. You do NOT need to run the blowers on any PE models, so if it's cooking you out, it's either to warm outside to burn or turn your blowers off.
 
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I recommend burning pallets mixed with your wood. Years ago when I was poor I heated my house with pallets. They burn hot and are very dry wood.
 
I recommend burning pallets mixed with your wood. Years ago when I was poor I heated my house with pallets. They burn hot and are very dry wood.

Pacific Energy does not recommend this on their models - at least straight up kiln or pressure dried wood, mixed with firewood may be ok?
 
Wood is wood, just pallets are basically kindling. You do need to add it in smaller amounts and more often.
 
Wood is wood, just pallets are basically kindling. You do need to add it in smaller amounts and more often.

Yes - smaller amounts would be the key, if you load it up and you warp your stainless baffle and have to get it torched out.
 
Yes - smaller amounts would be the key, if you load it up and you warp your stainless baffle and have to get it torched out.
Don't do that, I would put up with less heat than damage my stove. The pallets are good to get your wet wood up to temperature. Then a little of both keeps it going.
 
Don't do that, I would put up with less heat than damage my stove. The pallets are good to get your wet wood up to temperature. Then a little of both keeps it going.

Absolutely - I think this case is to short a chimney run or just a cold stove, maybe even a really plugged up liner, I've heard of this, 50% plugged, but would love to see it if it is in fact that dirty.
 
When my chimney is dirty I can really tell that the draft is less. When I have smoke come back into the room it is time to clean it. That works out to twice a year. I have the best wood I have ever had currently, so will have to see if it helps with build-up. I have a talk chimney.
 
Check local saw mills or people who do saw milling, often times their happy to get rid of loads of offcuts and junk to them for cheap to free! Pallets are good, check local manufacturing companies, I know mine for example gets rid of 100's a week to a guy "SKIDJIM" lol for free so I take to better ones for building with and many other various things. Also you could get in touch with local tree services and try to make friends and see if they'll keep you in the loop regarding scrounges!
 
In addition to all the good advice above, just one, perhaps obvious point. When you open your stove door are you opening the airflow as well? If the intake is even partially closed when you open the door there's a much higher chance of smoke.

BTW, both my parents were from Everett! :)
 
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Check out this link:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/rake-coals-forward-and-stove-start-up-pictures.80659/

You need to use good kindling and a good firestarter to get the heat built up in the stove quickly.

You have an insert in a fireplace and the mass of the fireplace is soaking up some of your heat.

You might pull out insert and insulate behind the insert to help the mass of the fireplace from stealing the heat especially on start ups.

The faster you can get the heat built up in the firebox so you can then get the input air shut back down for a long burn the more
wood you will save. Lighting fires all the time from a cold start I think is going to be more of hastle as it takes longer to get things
going and by the time that fire from a cold start can be throttled back down for a long burn you have then already burnt alot
of your main load. Quick startups using kindling and a fire starter on hot coals is best way to go. It will help over come not so dry wood also.

Rake your coals forward on east west loads will make for a longer burn time also. Take a look at the link above.
 
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If it was me...i'd sell the 3000 stove for 2100 and buy a new 600 stove and buy a bunch of eco bricks and seasoned wood...if you can get it.

Or just use the extra money for heat.

Heating your home should NOT stress you out. This is something we should do for the fun of it, not because we feel forced. I know reality can be tough sometimes, but you need to adapt and overcome, not create a plan and stick with it, not matter how bad it may be.

Sometimes lifes lumps are lumpy. :)
 
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All of the above mentioned and here comes the tough love part...you need to burn better (more dry) wood! You need to start earlier with your gathering, splitting, and drying.

The pallets are a great idea and you can find them for free. Use them for your firewood stacks also. Besides cleaning chimney, I think you biggest issue is quality (dry) of wood. KD
 
If you're going to burn pallets, make sure they aren't chemically treated or painted with anything. With you getting smoke backing up into the room, you don't want to be inhaling any weird chemicals.
 
Also you say this winter you are out money. Not sure what you do for a living but any chance you could pick up side work in your local???? I know those cash jobs definitely help my bank account!
 
You don't mention whether you have kids. If it's just you and the wife, well, double up on socks and sweaters. Two adult people can take it. I have a feeling your wife will motivate you accordingly if the issues continue, guys can pretty resourceful under this particular type of motivation.
 
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Hello one and all. This is my first post here. I've been burning wood for a few years in this little Pacific Energy fireplace insert woodstove. On the first year, without really knowing what I was doing I used unseasoned (partly-seasoned, technically) firewood. This was for a couple of months one winter and we kept the fire hot, although it kept going out and smoking up the house.

Don't feel too bad, sometimes things just suck. This is my third year with my stove and I feel like I just have it mostly right now, so it takes time to work the kinks out.

1st year: Bought wood early, split pile in two, stacked on either side of the house as an experiment. Learned that one side dries much better than the other. Also learned that the bad side had winds push snow into the wood and freeze/thaw led to a mess. Result was terrible burning in Feb-Apr and not giving it enough air led to creosote which I managed to light up..... No damage and the extra $$ I put in the piping paid dividends. Also started a cleaning regiment of sweeping over Christmas break and again in late Feb/early March (not #$%#$%# around, it's worth it for me!)

Year 2: All wood on good side, dried well. What I didn't burn in year 1 was amazing. Lesson there is get wood for the next year. Late in season I found the wood burned too fast/not controlled. Found out the gasket did not seal well. I replaced it this year, works well. Looking at the old/new gasket, seems the manufacturer put the wrong size in.

Year 3: Got sturdy pallets to stack wood on, placing the new stuff at the back and my oldest at the front so I can grab last year's wood.

That's me. Back to you:

Definitely check your chimney, stovepipe, and stove. If your raincap has a screen, check it too. Should be no creosote on it and you should be able to easily see through it to the sky. I recall terrible drafts late in my first year and my screen was badly caked, cleaning it helped immensely.

Stacking: I like the pallets. Easy to find at businesses, just ask.

Burning: If the wood is not dry enough, you can always split it smaller. This will help make it dry faster in the stove and burn better. I agree with others in keeping an ear open for craigslist finds. Or find someone who sells seasoned wood, it costs in a lump sum but it should be cheaper than electric heat.

Good Luck!
 
The sad part is, this winter we're out of money and our seasoned firewood supply is dwindling. So that $3000 is really starting to be missed at this point. I'm working on a pile for next year but that stuff is wet as a sponge. For one thing I don't have a good splitting surface, so it's looking rather muddy on the ends so far. I wonder if it would be worth it to keep splitting like I'm doing or wait until I can find a pallet or something and fashion a splitting surface myself.
Long time lurker and first time poster here.

I've been in the same situation years ago where i didnt have seasoned wood, access to new wood, or cash to magically buy it. The absolute cheapest way to keep yourself and g/f warm during fall/winter/spring is electric blankets.

If you are truly hard up on cash nothing else is even remotely comparable for the amount of comfort and heat they provide for their initial cost and then minuscule operating cost. Two twin sized electric blankets run from 19-39 dollars and can easily be used in the living room during the day and taken to the bedroom at night.

With that said..(if you are truly hard up) you might consider posting a craiglist ad asking for seasoned firewood assistance. Lots of people will gladly help others who honestly need help getting through a rough patch; just don't take their kindness for blindness.
 
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