One important reason for pellet high costs.
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bogieb
Minister of Fire
Weel, a lot of NH trees cut down that would normally be used for firewood or pellets are now being shipped out of state to build roads for heavy equipment in the fracking, solar and wind projects. So firewood is also at a high price in this area.
In this state all energy producing materials cost more than surrounding areas because there are plenty of NIMBY's againt NG pipelines, propane storage, coal-fired energy plants and biomass (garbage) energy plants. They have been tearing out (or not re-building) dams for hydroelectricity etc. etc. etc.
And now all our burning stuff is being shipped out of state because woodlot owners aren't stupid and they are going with the highest bidders - which are not firewood, pallets or pellets. And then everyone complains about the prices of pellets and firewood when the guys trying to supply it can't get it themselves because they can't pay enough to keep it from happening. Granted it will affect next year's price more than this year's but they also have to think about if they will even have anything to sell next year so believe they need to make a few extra bucks this year to stretch them thru the lean times - especially if oil stays low.
Then their shipping costs and processing costs may have gone down, but their labor cost hasn't and their insurance costs are skyrocketing.
I'm not saying there aren't greedy people or gougers out there, I'm just saying it is unreasonable for people to expect the price to stay static for several years and there are other drivers to cost than gas prices.
In this state all energy producing materials cost more than surrounding areas because there are plenty of NIMBY's againt NG pipelines, propane storage, coal-fired energy plants and biomass (garbage) energy plants. They have been tearing out (or not re-building) dams for hydroelectricity etc. etc. etc.
And now all our burning stuff is being shipped out of state because woodlot owners aren't stupid and they are going with the highest bidders - which are not firewood, pallets or pellets. And then everyone complains about the prices of pellets and firewood when the guys trying to supply it can't get it themselves because they can't pay enough to keep it from happening. Granted it will affect next year's price more than this year's but they also have to think about if they will even have anything to sell next year so believe they need to make a few extra bucks this year to stretch them thru the lean times - especially if oil stays low.
Then their shipping costs and processing costs may have gone down, but their labor cost hasn't and their insurance costs are skyrocketing.
I'm not saying there aren't greedy people or gougers out there, I'm just saying it is unreasonable for people to expect the price to stay static for several years and there are other drivers to cost than gas prices.
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Michael6268
Minister of Fire
I'll be the first to say that pellet suppliers and manufacturers are pricing themselves right out of business. But the fact is pellets don't come from just waste products anymore. They are clear cutting forests to make pellets.
bogieb
Minister of Fire
So the truck gets to ride on the boat for free? I need a ferry service like that when I got between here and NY
Darren111
Member
No lol. I had it all worked out, but don't want to bore anyone. There is an extra profit being made there by someone. The extra $'s/bag more than cover fuel, ferry cost, tolls and driver wages.So the truck gets to ride on the boat for free? I need a ferry service like that when I got between here and NY
But, now were getting off subject a bit lol.
hossthehermit
Minister of Fire
I was told that pellet prices will stay high because everybody that works in a pellet plant got a big raise this year for doing such a great job .........
Thought that was just bad trees to make pellets that were shipped overseas? Thought I read an article on this?
Menards here has those junk souther indiana hardwoods. 4.59 a bag. What a joke. They have always had Somersets. I dont know why the change. Good thing I filled up the propane tank, first time in 10 years. I've got a ton of Somersets left over from Las year then I'm switching to corn. Or mixing in corn to make them last longer. Oh and I also got a.200,000 btu woodburner so anyway you look at it in staying warm this winter. I might sell my Harman Accentra and Quadrafire Mt Vernon. My Cumberland 3650 will burn about anything and the other two just.burn pellets so may not have much use for them much longer.
The Quad will burn corn if mixed, or you have to throw a handful of pellets in pot first to ignite just corn, and then have to let it run till you shut it off to empty pot. It is doable but a pain compared to corn burners that don't need help burning corn. kap
bogieb
Minister of Fire
Yeah, it sure sounds like someone is making extra profit - it can't possibly cost that much per bag to take the ferry - thanks for being a good sport about it
What gets me with this industry is just how in a few years they managed to price themselves at the same level as any other heating source. I have to admit that i fell into the trap 6 or 7 years ago and bought myself a stove. A bag of pellets at the time was 3 dollars something Canadian. I thought to myself "this is the future, a clean renewable ressource, a byproduct of wood, plenty of raw materials around, not dependant of foreign countries and their wars, storable, doesn't go bad, perfect heating solution".
Few years later price skyrocketed and forced me to go spend money and install a mini split heatpump to have again an affordable heat source.
I still believe that pellets should not cost as much as they because of perception. It's easy to quantify how much heating is costing you. In the fringe period a bag might last for almost two days but in the middle of the winter one bag per day is barely enough and sometimes it's but by burning that bag i know that it cost me 6 bucks to heat the house for that day. 6 bucks a day doesn't sound like a good deal.
Few years later price skyrocketed and forced me to go spend money and install a mini split heatpump to have again an affordable heat source.
I still believe that pellets should not cost as much as they because of perception. It's easy to quantify how much heating is costing you. In the fringe period a bag might last for almost two days but in the middle of the winter one bag per day is barely enough and sometimes it's but by burning that bag i know that it cost me 6 bucks to heat the house for that day. 6 bucks a day doesn't sound like a good deal.
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
Well that's what the pellet and power industry claims, but they keep changing the metric on what a "waste" tree is .
What was true 5 years ago is no longer true today.
It is also quite likely that a manufacturer that was sourcing scrap/waste exclusively 5 years ago still is today. Might not be too.
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Michael6268
Minister of Fire
6 bucks a day doesn't sound like a lot to me..
if oil is 2.00 a gallon a furnace use around 3-4 gallons a day in mid winter 24/7.. especially if the heating oil is also used for domestic hot water.
bogieb
Minister of Fire
I gotta go with Pete and Tony - $6/day isn't much for heating, even for a small house such as mine.
At my old house which was well insulated and used an oil boiler (new in 2007), I used $1800 of oil for the 5 month heating period - and used a wood stove to heat the main floor during the night and weekends (two zones for the FHW system; main floor and basement). That house was 1728 for both floors. That roughly translates to $360/month = $12/day. And that was with burning a couple of cords of wood and when oil was approximately the price it is now (or maybe cheaper).
Now I'm at a smaller, leaky house that has propane and a 1980 boiler system. I can easily got thru $600-700 of propane a month at today's prices (the 2013/2014 winter it was literally $1k and more per month). Heck, going thru 3 bags of pellets a day in the deep of winter is a bargain for me even adding in the extra electricity used by both stove ($20-40)
alternativeheat
Minister of Fire
All I know is I was in Tractor Supply about a month ago, they had pellets up the ying yang. I asked how pellets were selling this year, the girl replied so so and said she was surprised after last years nasty winter and the demand for them then. I said but oil prices have crashed compared to then, she said she has heard that. Their price on pellets a month ago ? $ 5.39 per 40 lb bag and I believe that was the ton price. IE if you bought a ton it was that price per bag. Still burning oil in this shoulder season though, it's been pretty mild anyway compared to last Nov. i want a ton of pellets for the holidays, I suspect prices will be dropping some.
Atlantic Canada is a tough one to figure out. Why do I say this? Let's look at the facts:
1. Nova Scotia has two big pellet mills - Shaw and Viridis. Shaw makes Eastern Embers ($6.00 a bag locally, and bulk shipments overseas) and Viridis makes pellets, but ships 100% overseas through the Halifax port. Viridis won't or can't sell locally. The previous owner (Enligna) sold locally, so it seems the plant had the capacity to bag pellets at some point. They were good pellets;
2. I can buy Oakies at Can Tire for $6.00 per bag. They come all the way from British Columbia on the far side of the country. Who makes Oakies? Viridis does. Think of shipping bagged wood pellets from California to Maine and you get the idea;
3. I'm sure Viridis has no control over what buyers do with their pellets, but the cost of shipping a pallet of pellets from BC to the east must be huge. If the company was really as concerned about the environment as they tout, why not sell pellets made in the Nova Scotia mill? It must know Oakies are being shipped to the four corners of Canada;
4. New Brunswick and Quebec have a number of pellet mills. What is the price? You guessed it, $6.00 per bag (plus 15% tax).
Bottom line: I can understand the frustration others have expressed about wood pellet cost and availability. I started burning when pellets were under $3.00 per bag, produced locally and always available.
Shaw makes residential-grade pellets (Eastern Embers); not sure what grade pellet they sell overseas.
The former Enligna plant (now owned by Viridis) made residential grade pellets (it actually received a government grant/loan to upgrade the plant before it was sold to Viridis), but for some reason Viridis is not using it/selling locally. The Enligna residential pellets were as good as any, in my opinion.
killie11
Member
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