Harman 52i owners only (I think)

Cory S said:

What I have found on my new P61A with the feed rate dial...

The lower the feed rate, the less "ON" cycle per minute the auger runs.... Regardless of what the temperature (numeral, stove mode) dial is set to.

In order to get the slowest burn, the feed rate HAS to be set lower. For example, if the ambient outside temperature is above 30*F, my P61A will maintain house temperature at 66* on settings Feed:1, #1. Stove surface temperature sits at 260-270*F on the side of the stove about 3" down from the top surface.

If I leave the number dial (temperature control) on *1*, and set the feed rate to 2, the auger "ON" time will increase by about 3-4 seconds. The side surface temperature will also increase by about 20*, even though the temperature dial remains on *1*.

Now.... What I do is....If I need more heat, I move the feed rate to *2* and raise the temperature/number dial to *2* also.

What is strange is that everything I have read on this subject points to the feed rate as only being a maximum rate at which the auger will cycle. Since the ESP target is only supposed to be set with the temp/number control knob. Therefore, the auger "ON" time should stay the same whether the feed rate is on 1 or 4.... unless you command a higher stove temperature setting. Yet my findings say otherwise.

If my stove temperature dial is set on *1* with feed rate on 1, I get a 12 second "ON" cycle, 48 second "OFF" cycle from the auger. If I increase the feed rate up 4, the auger will cycle "ON" for 21 seconds.

All this recorded data is based on the P61A in auto ignition, and stove mode......

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Man, you guys are confusing the heck out of me. I am trying to figure the feed and temp knobs out on my stove as well. Not having much luck, I read the sticky's, called my dealer, only one left to call is the installer. This thing runs different than my 20 year old Breckwell, I'll give it some time. My only issue now is having it run at a low enough setting during this shoulder season. I can't seem to get the stove to run low enough. It burns what I think is too many pellets when I have it on #1. Like I said, I'll get there. Good info from everyone, just hard to wrap my head around some of it.

007 and Alternative,
I have a question. How old are your stoves vs. what Cory and I are running? I see Cory and I probably have stoves the same age and your alls are possibly older. Not trying to open up a huge debate here but I am seeing similar results as Cory and I do run much like he does at times and it works here also. My question is: Is it possible that Harman stoves have changed somewhat as to how they operate? My P68 is a year old now. I assume cory's is similar in age. I could be wrong.

I am all for the set it and forget it once it is cold out but during shoulder season I find myself most comfortable and less pellets used with mine also turned down to feed rate 1 and such. I also believe my stove will over ride that feed rate 1 if it is set at a specific temperature. This happens when I have it set up like this.

Room Temp turned up for the max fan. Manual igniter with the temp dial set at 4.5 or 5 to keep the house 72 - 74 degrees. Feed rate set at 1.

007 and others I know that you guys know your stuff well but I also know what my stove does. No disrespect nor argument here but something is or could be different and I can definitely relate to what Cory is saying. Let me back this up by saying I also have a 2006 model PC 45 and that stove is night and day different how it operates than my new P68 so this leads me to believe something is different in how they work and perform. They also have different ESP's. The 45 has a black wire and the 68 a red.

I am by no means a Harman guru like you all but I am no idiot either and I still see conflicting opinions here which I understand different settings and such work for some and not others. That said I am inclined to say I do believe there is something different between the older stoves and newer. I see it between my two. I do not mess with the 45 at all once she is fired and where I like it.

One thing I do like with the manual ignite and slow feed rate on the 68 is that it is a steadier heat but I also must control that thru the feed rate or burn myself out during the shoulder season. I have recently been running it on room temp auto and set temp and it cycles as needed but the temps are not as consistent inside. It keeps it very close and good but simply not the same in consistency. I also notice that it will remain true in the manual mode feed rate down even if outside temps drop.

I am perplexed. Now last year 007 I will give you some huge credit because I was fiddling with knobs too much and did as you recommended and it worked or ironed out things until I had a better understanding. Thanks Again! I really do think the newer stoves can and will operate somewhat differently than the older models just as I see between my 45 and 68.

Anyone know of changes over the years that have made these smart stoves smarter? Perhaps the ESP or control board? Not sure but I can relate to both sides of this discussion. I also know there are different ESP's and boards so why is that? Do you think Harman was going somewhere with the newer models "smarts" leading up to the Absolute

Any and all thoughts are welcome.... There has to be an explanation. I have read and re-read the great sticky until I am blue in the face and a lot makes perfect sense but I am experiencing some things different much like Cory. What a head scratcher.

007 and Alternative,
I have a question. How old are your stoves vs. what Cory and I are running? I see Cory and I probably have stoves the same age and your alls are possibly older. Not trying to open up a huge debate here but I am seeing similar results as Cory and I do run much like he does at times and it works here also. My question is: Is it possible that Harman stoves have changed somewhat as to how they operate? My P68 is a year old now. I assume cory's is similar in age. I could be wrong.

I am all for the set it and forget it once it is cold out but during shoulder season I find myself most comfortable and less pellets used with mine also turned down to feed rate 1 and such. I also believe my stove will over ride that feed rate 1 if it is set at a specific temperature. This happens when I have it set up like this.

Room Temp turned up for the max fan. Manual igniter with the temp dial set at 4.5 or 5 to keep the house 72 - 74 degrees. Feed rate set at 1.

007 and others I know that you guys know your stuff well but I also know what my stove does. No disrespect nor argument here but something is or could be different and I can definitely relate to what Cory is saying. Let me back this up by saying I also have a 2006 model PC 45 and that stove is night and day different how it operates than my new P68 so this leads me to believe something is different in how they work and perform. They also have different ESP's. The 45 has a black wire and the 68 a red.

I am by no means a Harman guru like you all but I am no idiot either and I still see conflicting opinions here which I understand different settings and such work for some and not others. That said I am inclined to say I do believe there is something different between the older stoves and newer. I see it between my two. I do not mess with the 45 at all once she is fired and where I like it.

One thing I do like with the manual ignite and slow feed rate on the 68 is that it is a steadier heat but I also must control that thru the feed rate or burn myself out during the shoulder season. I have recently been running it on room temp auto and set temp and it cycles as needed but the temps are not as consistent inside. It keeps it very close and good but simply not the same in consistency. I also notice that it will remain true in the manual mode feed rate down even if outside temps drop.

I am perplexed. Now last year 007 I will give you some huge credit because I was fiddling with knobs too much and did as you recommended and it worked or ironed out things until I had a better understanding. Thanks Again! I really do think the newer stoves can and will operate somewhat differently than the older models just as I see between my 45 and 68.

Anyone know of changes over the years that have made these smart stoves smarter? Perhaps the ESP or control board? Not sure but I can relate to both sides of this discussion. I also know there are different ESP's and boards so why is that? Do you think Harman was going somewhere with the newer models "smarts" leading up to the Absolute

Any and all thoughts are welcome.... There has to be an explanation. I have read and re-read the great sticky until I am blue in the face and a lot makes perfect sense but I am experiencing some things different much like Cory. What a head scratcher.

Jackhammer,
I was in your shoes last fall so don't sweat it. It will take some time but you will figure out what works best and when for your set up. The 61, 68 and older PC 45 will eat some pellets vs. smaller BTU stoves as mentioned. The older 45 is the same size and platform as the 61. Best thing I can recommend is setting it to 3.5 feed rate and room temp auto and the temp dial where you want it. Don't let the igniter hype worry you at all. IMHO that is ridiculous.

Get used to how it operates and then you can fine tune stuff. FYI I just switched from room temp auto to room temp manual this morning. I have my feed rate at 1 and set to 4.5 on the temp dial. This set up I always have a flame and the inside temp stays right where I want it for now. This is what works best for me now but the knob twisting can get goofy and confusing. I set it here so my distribution blower runs all the time which I like.

There is a lot of confusion on this and I am trying to figure out why. Read my post above. Is your stove a new one? There might be a difference in older and newer stoves is my guess. These guys know their stuff well but as you can see Cory and myself are operating differently. I am assuming it is a difference in the years the stoves were made. Not sure but the only plausible explanation I can come up with.

I would not try to compare your new stove to even a 20 year old Harman let alone another make.

bags said:

Jackhammer,
I was in your shoes last fall so don't sweat it. It will take some time but you will figure out what works best and when for your set up. The 61, 68 and older PC 45 will eat some pellets vs. smaller BTU stoves as mentioned. The older 45 is the same size and platform as the 61. Best thing I can recommend is setting it to 3.5 feed rate and room temp auto and the temp dial where you want it. Don't let the igniter hype worry you at all. IMHO that is ridiculous.

Get used to how it operates and then you can fine tune stuff. FYI I just switched from room temp auto to room temp manual this morning. I have my feed rate at 1 and set to 4.5 on the temp dial. This set up I always have a flame and the inside temp stays right where I want it for now. This is what works best for me now but the knob twisting can get goofy and confusing. I set it here so my distribution blower runs all the time which I like.

There is a lot of confusion on this and I am trying to figure out why. Read my post above. Is your stove a new one? There might be a difference in older and newer stoves is my guess. These guys know their stuff well but as you can see Cory and myself are operating differently. I am assuming it is a difference in the years the stoves were made. Not sure but the only plausible explanation I can come up with.

I would not try to compare your new stove to even a 20 year old Harman let alone another make.

Click to expand...

It's confusing because you guys keep playing with dials

I no longer play with dials. I switch from one mode and set up that works to the alternate which works also depending on what the outside temps are like. I have my program figured out here. Last year at first was another story.

I will also add that what works with my PC 45 is different than what works with my 68 at different times to a large degree. Just the way it is.

Hi bags,
I have a p68 harman I made essentially the same test as you and I arrive at the same conclusion I play with the feed button depend outdoor temperature conditions and sometimes I put the feed 1 here works well for me as I already explained everything in an old post but I can not seem to find

My Invincible is approaching 20 years old and my P61A is 4 years old. They both operate the same way in relation to feed rate. There's apparently no way I'm going to convince you guys as to what the feed rate knob is intended for and what Harman recommends. That's fine. I'm sure the newer boards have different algorithms and some things are tweaked, but in my opinion, feed rate hasn't changed. Heck, the new Harmans that come today even have the #4 highlighted in white on the feed rate scale and all the other numbers are shaded a different color. That should tell you something...

I use this way when it is not yet cold enough I better performance but when it's colder feed button can be 3 or 4

I too mainly go to feed rate 3.5 or 4. I also prefer room temp fan maxed with manual igniter set to a certain temp keeping a maintenance burn vs. shut offs and ramping up down and all around. I highly agree that a feed rate of 4 is best overall.

My P61a is a 2013.

Was told leave it on 3..... However, I never do what I'm told!
Hasn't been that cold as of yet. I've been running 2 to 2 1/2.

I run mine set on 4.5 or 5. If I see unburnt pellets in the ash pan in the morning, I might back it down .5 All depends on the Pellet size.

If I want more heat, I turn up the heat dial......If I want lees heat, I turn down the heat dial.

Here's my secret - when I want to lower the BTU output of my Harman, I turn down the temperature dial. You heard it here first.

Peterfield said:

Here's my secret - when I want to lower the BTU output of my Harman, I turn down the temperature dial. You heard it here first.

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Look up^^^^^^ Treed you!

Let me explain the reason I put the feed 1
First my stove is in the basement and the house has 3 floors the stove is in manual pan temperature. I do not heating in automatic room temperature because the distribution fan stops when the temperature is reached and before the stove temperature turns back on other floors down too and if I warm room temperature in manual the stove remains light but Distribution fan stops and have the same effect of temperature on the other floors down too.
So if I put the feed is 1 and the minimum temperature knob stove temperature distribution manual fan remains on and the temperature does not fall on other floors and if I need a little more heat I ride the temperature knob

When the outside temperature is not cold enough if the feed is 3 and the temperature knob is at minimum it's too hot in the house.
When the cold arrived for good feed is about 3 or 4

Golfeur said:

Let me explain the reason I put the feed 1
First my stove is in the basement and the house has 3 floors the stove is in manual pan temperature. I do not heating in automatic room temperature because the distribution fan stops when the temperature is reached and before the stove temperature turns back on other floors down too and if I warm room temperature in manual the stove remains light but Distribution fan stops and have the same effect of temperature on the other floors down too.
So if I put the feed is 1 and the minimum temperature knob stove temperature distribution manual fan remains on and the temperature does not fall on other floors and if I need a little more heat I ride the temperature knob

When the outside temperature is not cold enough if the feed is 3 and the temperature knob is at minimum it's too hot in the house.
When the cold arrived for good feed is about 3 or 4

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Interesting. Well, that's why they put nobs on stoves , so you can adjust to what suits your needs ! When I mix central heat with stove heat I too go into Stove Temp Mode. But my situation in the shoulder season is different from yours because my stove is in my living space not down in the basement. I run it in Room Temp Auto in the shoulder season.

This year I played with the positioning of my temperature probe. I find it's doing much better at regulating a more consistent temperature now. The real change was moving it up about a foot higher than before. The stove still turns on/off automatically but the swing in temperature is much better.

I point that out because the way the air flows through the house there might be a sweet spot. If you need the stove to burn longer to warm father parts of the house, you might want to lower the probe so it's reading cooler air below.

The Harman's are definitely designed to be fully automatic so I'd try playing with the probe positioning if you're finding the need to tinker with it. I've never had to adjust the feed rate here. (not saying it's wrong but if your new to these stoves I wouldn't mess with it)

jackhammer said:

Man, you guys are confusing the heck out of me. I am trying to figure the feed and temp knobs out on my stove as well. Not having much luck, I read the sticky's, called my dealer, only one left to call is the installer. This thing runs different than my 20 year old Breckwell, I'll give it some time. My only issue now is having it run at a low enough setting during this shoulder season. I can't seem to get the stove to run low enough. It burns what I think is too many pellets when I have it on #1. Like I said, I'll get there. Good info from everyone, just hard to wrap my head around some of it.

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Are you running at stove temp or room temp?

Tim Linden said:

This year I played with the positioning of my temperature probe. I find it's doing much better at regulating a more consistent temperature now. The real change was moving it up about a foot higher than before. The stove still turns on/off automatically but the swing in temperature is much better.

I point that out because the way the air flows through the house there might be a sweet spot. If you need the stove to burn longer to warm father parts of the house, you might want to lower the probe so it's reading cooler air below.

The Harman's are definitely designed to be fully automatic so I'd try playing with the probe positioning if you're finding the need to tinker with it. I've never had to adjust the feed rate here. (not saying it's wrong but if your new to these stoves I wouldn't mess with it)

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Bingo! A well-placed temperature probe will out perform knob spinning day in and day out, especially as the weather turns colder… This will also allow you utilize the technology that you paid for. At the end of the day it's your stove so do what you like, but, as it's been said before, it's important to advocate the most consistent principles to operate the stove to avoid continued confusion for other fourm members looking for clarity and simplicity. An analogy I've used before is the concept of sticking a brick under the gas pedal of your car (feed rate 1) to ensure a consistent speed versus setting the cruise control (well placed temp probe). Ultimately, were advocating cruise control as the ideal solution.

That said, would be nice if Harman replaced the prehistoric temperature probe with and option for a nice wireless unit that would achieve the same result by maintaining a consistent temperature and modulating the stove accordingly. Icing on the cake would be allowing you to calibrate the temperature based on thermostat position and how the room responds to heat from the stove. One can only dream...

I've been running both my p68 and 52i at 6 and neither has dumped pellets . that's in room temp,,man and set to like 75, im sure ill have to turn it down as it gets colder here. I do have to turn it down on first start up so it wont over fill before lighting .so far I haven't even come close to the 1" ash line its more like 3 from the edge..like they said above prob position has a lot to do with how it runs in room temp, I myself like running it in man. mode keeping a constant burn helps keeping temps more constant..

wildbill said:

I've been running both my p68 and 52i at 6 and neither has dumped pellets . that's in room temp,,man and set to like 75, im sure ill have to turn it down as it gets colder here. I do have to turn it down on first start up so it wont over fill before lighting .so far I haven't even come close to the 1" ash line its more like 3 from the edge..like they said above prob position has a lot to do with how it runs in room temp, I myself like running it in man. mode keeping a constant burn helps keeping temps more constant..

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As stated before, the filling of the burnpot upon startup is a timed setting controlled by the dip switches. It doesn't matter where the feed rate is set.

lbcynya said:

Bingo! A well-placed temperature probe will out perform knob spinning day in and day out, especially as the weather turns colder… This will also allow you utilize the technology that you paid for. At the end of the day it's your stove so do what you like, but, as it's been said before, it's important to advocate the most consistent principles to operate the stove to avoid continued confusion for other forum members looking for clarity and simplicity. An analogy I've used before is the concept of sticking a brick under the gas pedal of your car (feed rate 1) to ensure a consistent speed versus setting the cruise control (well placed temp probe). Ultimately, were advocating cruise control as the ideal solution.

That said, would be nice if Harman replaced the prehistoric temperature probe with and option for a nice wireless unit that would achieve the same result by maintaining a consistent temperature and modulating the stove accordingly. Icing on the cake would be allowing you to calibrate the temperature based on thermostat position and how the room responds to heat from the stove. One can only dream...

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Couldn't agree with you more.......lots of bad Harman info/advice gets out there and it's hard to combat it.

unbidden said:

Are you running at stove temp or room temp?

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I have tried both, but more stove temp, lowest temp setting, feed between 3 & 4. I think it's just too warm to run all day, heating 2000 sq ft. I'm not stressing, just enjoying the 50 degree days. It will be cold soon enough and I'll get it figured out, plan to run on room temp, auto when it gets colder.

jackhammer said:

I have tried both, but more stove temp, lowest temp setting, feed between 3 & 4. I think it's just too warm to run all day, heating 2000 sq ft. I'm not stressing, just enjoying the 50 degree days. It will be cold soon enough and I'll get it figured out, plan to run on room temp, auto when it gets colder.

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Bump the stove temp up and feed rate down. For sure each stove has its own personality.