Finally insulated my Jotul

Soundchasm · Nov 20, 2015

I had been waiting on my sweep to extend my stacks 3' and put a coupling on a join I discovered right at the cut-out flue on the Nashua downstairs, and all that got done this week.

I bought a bag of Roxul and used about two bats to stuff up above the Nashua, and it wasn't too tough. So the next day I decide to do the insert. The Rockland is a crazy install in a massive masonry wall. Well, I got the sheet metal cover off and crawled behind the insert.

If my knees bent the other way I could have stood up in the cavity!! It was huge in there. No WONDER I've never been able to get much heat out of that insert. I couldn't get positioned to put Roxul up where the liner went to the flue, so I had to form a type of ceiling using a ledge and a few vertical pieces of Roxul to make sure it doesn't come down. I have another clever buddy and we'll rig up something permanent. Probably ended up with three unused bats equivalence, so quite a lot fit easily in there with much space left over.

Lit the first fire of the season tonight and it seems to be a big difference. I also went with Jatoxico's suggestion to pull the unit forward a slight amount. That's letting a lot of heat get out from the surround. Maybe, maybe, MAYBE I'll start to see this thing meet expectation.

Jotul buyers, if your seller/installer doesn't want to install a blockoff plate, they are no-good %^@@# sonsa'*&*&^**!! (<--Everything but a child of God) It'll turn out to be critical in my case.

Thanks to the forum!

Woody Stover · Nov 20, 2015

Yeah, that'll get you a lot more heat I'd think. :cool:

newcomtd · Nov 20, 2015

Just curious, what is that taped to your liner?

mellow · Nov 20, 2015

And if you ever get a chance, pull the insert and install concrete board + the roxul, you will be even more amazed at the heat output. Also a good metal or concrete board block off plate will help.

Dodgethis · Nov 20, 2015

I have a similar fireplace setup. I installed an insert last year. I closed the side wall with a double layer of concrete board using metal stud. I than insulate the void with Roxul. No block off plate. Like you, there is lots of space above the insert. In my case, the insert (Pacific Energy NEO 2.5) heat like a volcano. The best part, since the fireplace is inside the house, it will absorb heat and slowly release it over time. In my case, when the outside temp is around 32-36 F, I do one fire in the morning and I am good for 24h. The house temp will be around 74-75 F and stay this way all day. I have a 2200 Square foot home. The next morning, the temps will be in the 68-70 F and the process start again.

See the post for picture of the installation.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-pacific-energy-neo-2-5.137259/page-2

jatoxico · Nov 20, 2015

Soundchasm said:
Jotul buyers, if your seller/installer doesn't want to install a blockoff plate, they are no-good %^@@# sonsa'*&*&^**!! (<--Everything but a child of God) It'll turn out to be critical in my case.

You crack me up! Seconding Mellow on the block-off plate. When I did my plate and insulation I dropped the plate as low as possible because I have an exterior chimney and an uninsulated liner (I think bholler just shuddered). There was a tremendous amount of heat behind the surround coming off the exposed liner from the draw down up to the old damper that I could have tried to send into the room by putting the plate as high up as possible and keeping the unit (surround) pulled out off the wall 3/4" as I have it now.

Putting the plate high up would have left maximum amount of liner exposed and with box pulled forward it would have come out from behind the surround. The problem was with my cold exterior chimney I was getting a nice cache of shiny black creosote couple feet up every time I swept and was not happy with the overall cleanliness and type of sweepings I was getting in the liner up to the cap. So I was also all about retaining max flue temps as well as keeping the box hot. After completion low and behold I'm now getting brown dusty creosote and much less overall while still getting better secondaries and more heat in the room.

In your case I'm thinking a little differently as it's a unique install. From the pics, you have an insulated liner and an interior chimney. Given your install I would try to put the block-off up high where the liner insulation starts leaving that first 16-18" (?) exposed. Now that the unit is moved forward a bit you would be able to capture that heat for the room and still not have to fear excessive creosote. I guess only you could say given what you've gotten in the past when you sweep. One good thing if it wasn't working as well as you liked you have nice access to make changes.

Soundchasm · Nov 20, 2015

newcomtd said:
Just curious, what is that taped to your liner?

They must have tried to tape the end of the insulation to the liner. The flue plate(?) is still in there pointed straight up and down, so I think the insulation got skinned off the liner as they came down. The chains are still attached to the liner.

The fact I should have gotten in that cubby hole with the installer seems beyond belief at the present time!

Soundchasm · Nov 20, 2015

Jatoxico, I have had some rip-roaring fires in there and the unit topped out at 550F. I was getting the coffee crystals as well, but more quantity than others report.

I'll ponder the possibilities, but the main thing seems to be to get the box as hot as possible with the least amount of wood. That way it's blowing the hottest air into the room. No reason to stop cleaning it twice a year. Me bottom-up, and sweep top-down.

What blew me away was after the outside temp dropped, three little splits were giving me some secondary action.

In my imagination, I think I'm entitled to throw each split from the six cords of wood I burned unnecessarily through the seller/installer's shop window. Six might be a bit of an exaggeration, but I bet not by much. Damn.

Soundchasm · Nov 20, 2015

Dodgethis said:
I have a similar fireplace setup. I installed an insert last year. I closed the side wall with a double layer of concrete board using metal stud. I than insulate the void with Roxul. No block off plate. Like you, there is lots of space above the insert. In my case, the insert (Pacific Energy NEO 2.5) heat like a volcano. The best part, since the fireplace is inside the house, it will absorb heat and slowly release it over time. In my case, when the outside temp is around 32-36 F, I do one fire in the morning and I am good for 24h. The house temp will be around 74-75 F and stay this way all day. I have a 2200 Square foot home. The next morning, the temps will be in the 68-70 F and the process start again.

See the post for picture of the installation.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-pacific-energy-neo-2-5.137259/page-2

No kidding it's similar!! Wow, the results are gorgeous. And your temperature results are jaw-dropping.

Soundchasm · Nov 20, 2015

mellow said:
And if you ever get a chance, pull the insert and install concrete board + the roxul, you will be even more amazed at the heat output. Also a good metal or concrete board block off plate will help.

Now that I've seen the inside, I can get my buddy to drill some holes and we can make brackets, cut things carefully and do a nice job with all the right materials. I thinking there might be a 100% improvement in efficiency to be gained. Finally, a big win!

begreen · Nov 20, 2015

Soundchasm said:
No kidding it's similar!! Wow, the results are gorgeous. And your temperature results are jaw-dropping.

The wonderful power of good insulation.

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Finally insulated my Jotul

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