Building a house...built-in wood storage?

amellefson said:

A/C with forced air LP furnace will be primary. We do have cold winters for 2 or 3 months and hot A/C is needed for 2 or 3 months.

I definately like the ambiance factor. I am thinking of radiant heat, probably LP, in basement floor... This would keep my first floor floors warmer and keep the basement up to temp while I am burning upstairs.

Sorry for puking my thoughts out here...too many options! I am an Electrician, big bro is HVAC, and lil bro is a plumber. Labor costs don't exist. Still it all come down to price tag and return on investment.

Click to expand...

I will tell you straight out the ambiance factor of a FP is a loser. I did it and lost. In hind sight a smaller footprint of the chimney/fireplace/hearth area would have been a better plan. I've got plenty of space with a 15 foot sectional that is off the walls by 2 plus feet.

If you think that basement floor RH is making it thru the first floor in any meaningful way it ain't going to happen. Warm floors from a basement heat source that is worth anything is going to equal a 100 degree basement temp then it still needs to travel to the second floor.

In RFH the heat cools as it rises. Don't get me wrong, I love it and invested a lot of money doing it from the ground up but its not the cure all and it has limitations due to and including the finish floor being applied. My maximum water temp is limited to 105F due to wood floors. My tiles could easily go another 10-15 degrees but you may break into sweat standing still on them.

amellefson said:

Thank you for the real answers. This closes a few doors for me. Better now than later. Please elaborate on your first paragraph.

When I talk about ambiance I am refering to seeing the fire. ie a glass door on a stove or efficient fireplace. 15' Sectional...couch?

Click to expand...

When designing our house we both wanted a fireplace, not a wood stove. We wanted it for the ambiance only, to see the fire and hear the sparks. Bought some really nice glass doors with screens. We knew it would not be for heating because as we all know a FP is a waste of heat not a supplier. Anyway it soon became really clear that after spending a considerable amount of money on getting the place warm (over 24 hours in the winter to heat the floors and bring the rooms from 55 to 70) there was no way I was going to let us send it all up the chimney. Thankfully I had the mason build a flush hearth because I did not want to be walking around it.

Ended up with a Rockland 550 in Brown enamel. Provides a tremendous amount of heat and allows a decent sized fire viewing area plus it looks great against the stone and blends really well with the floors. Fits flush so it does not extend into the room but the downside requires using a blower. If I want to feed it it will easily maintain keeping the first floor warm and light use of the second floor baseboard in the bedrooms. No problem with the loft/office area up there. We mostly use the house on weekends

It's a fairly large contemporary living room. Center mass expanded cape is the style. Stick built, FG insulation, RF 1st floor and baths on the 2nd with BB heat in the bedrooms. We will keep the LP boiler after we add a gasification indoor boiler with storage

We've got a fireplace. A pre-fab type, installed when the house was built. In our living room, a great spot for the ambiance thing.

It gets used twice a year.

Bad LP said:

My architect had one she called a Russian Heater. While in the design stage of this house she tried to sway me into it. I found it rather messy but more important the house was cold and she had just finished the burn.

Click to expand...

This being a form of masonry heater I assume? Yeah thermal mass heaters don't give you the heat right away, it comes through slowly over 6-12 hours or so. Not instant gratification by any means. Probably more important and practical if you really did want to heat efficiently with nothing but wood...

spirilis said:

This being a form of masonry heater I assume? Yeah thermal mass heaters don't give you the heat right away, it comes through slowly over 6-12 hours or so. Not instant gratification by any means. Probably more important and practical if you really did want to heat efficiently with nothing but wood...

Click to expand...

True but the heat coming off of it wasn't great but it had a really warm seat to put your boots on but it was in the middle of the house. The idea as explained to me was a very hot, short burn with a wide open draft to heat the mass that gave off a long term heat.

My point was that it was very messy with ash around the loading area (Yes I know my wood stove area gets the same debris) but the heat radiating off of it wasn't that great and the burn had recently gone out. It's a copy of a house that was built well south of mine and I never did get the chance to ask that owner how he liked the stove as he had one built. In 10 years I've never seen a wisp of smoke come out of his chimney nor do I see any stacks of wood.

Bad LP said:

True but the heat coming off of it wasn't great but it had a really warm seat to put your boots on but it was in the middle of the house. The idea as explained to me was a very hot, short burn with a wide open draft to heat the mass that gave off a long term heat.

My point was that it was very messy with ash around the loading area (Yes I know my wood stove area gets the same debris) but the heat radiating off of it wasn't that great and the burn had recently gone out. It's a copy of a house that was built well south of mine and I never did get the chance to ask that owner how he liked the stove as he had one built. In 10 years I've never seen a wisp of smoke come out of his chimney nor do I see any stacks of wood.

Click to expand...

That's interesting, would be neat to hear how he likes it. Or never uses it

I don't know that much about them but I presume the stove was too large for the fuel charge, you'd expect a smaller (and thinner) thermal mass would get warmer.

spirilis said:

That's interesting, would be neat to hear how he likes it. Or never uses it

I don't know that much about them but I presume the stove was too large for the fuel charge, you'd expect a smaller (and thinner) thermal mass would get warmer.

Click to expand...

A short hot burn will not heat a large thermal mass quickly, probably days of s steady fire to heat up the bricks enough for them to give the heat back.

Be great for long cold spells but a problem when temps vary ( like spring fall around here)

spirilis said:

That's interesting, would be neat to hear how he likes it. Or never uses it

I don't know that much about them but I presume the stove was too large for the fuel charge, you'd expect a smaller (and thinner) thermal mass would get warmer.

Click to expand...

Don't know but thinner won't hold the heat but needs more wood to last a long time. As we know radiant wants mass but does not respond quickly to change or demand.
I do remember him telling me the guy was Russian who built it. It was to have lots of chambers in it so I'm sure full blast is the only way to run it because dynamite would be the only way to remove creosote. His has a rather small chimney penetration thru the roof.

The weight of a wood stove is 400 to 500 pounds? The weight of a decent sized masonry heater is 10,000 pounds. Naturally, the concept of how you burn wood changes with a masonry heater/Russian fireplace. For example, with one of these you could burn a full firebox after work. This takes a couple of hours. If temps get real cold you would 'recharge the mass' 2 times per day, so burn another load in the morning.

Radiant heat is different from convection heat. Convection heat warms the air which warms objects. Wood stoves are mostly convection type heaters - with steel stoves the most convective and soapstone stoves the least convective (cast iron in the middle). But, radiant heat warms objects. This is the heat you get from the big thermal mass - the masonry. Thus radiant works well in an open floor plan - the heat can 'reach' objects. But in a rancher style house radiant heat has a harder time 'reaching' objects.

The radiant heater starts warming up the objects it's heat reaches and these objects than act like little heat radiators. Whereas a convection heater warms up mostly the air. If you were to all of the sudden magically remove a wood stove and a masonry heater from 2 similar houses which house would cool faster? The house with the heat energy in the air would cool faster. The other house has the heat energy stored mostly in objects so it would cool slower. This is why masonry heaters create a more comfortable/soothing form of heat.

And this is probably why it is good idea to have some sort of thermal mass around a wood stove/insert - so you can get some radiant type of heat to go along with the convective type of heat. The mass will help balance things out so you aren't feeling too hot than too cold.

With a "central mass" heat source, the outside walls would be very cool IMO unless you couldn't get near the heat source. Remember we are talking low and slow from the Russian Stove.

I've been really close to a wood stove that is non inviting due to the heat being thrown. One should not need firefighting turnout gear to load wood.

We have one of these on the cape. Rectangular door on the outside, horizontal door with round top arch on the inside right of hearth. About 3x4 inside, also has a brick lined floor in front of it.

At the top of the wood storage area on the inside there is a slate floor and the arch makes a small pizza oven. It does have its own flu. Conversely, on the outside above the door, is a slate floor and pretty good size grilling area, with three grate levels-- and again, its own flu.

I'll take some pics next time we're down.