Am I getting scammed?

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therealex

New Member
Dec 10, 2014
14
New York
I had a Jotul stove put in 10 years ago. The opening was for a gas fireplace that, apparently, was either taken out or never put in. The company that installed the stove did a really bad job (it was all new to me, so I didn't know). They've since gone out of business, of course.
Anyway, I have the stove pipe - single wall - going up the chimney. It's a double chimney, so the oil burner doesn't share it. I had a guy come to clean it, and of course he said it needed to be replaced. I've heard that before, usually with a $2000 price tag and claims that the oil burner side was trashed, too.
But this guy said the oil burner side was ok, but on the stove side:
1. The pipe was the wrong kind. He said it was for gas, not wood. He pointed out the ridges which are on the outside and, of course, inside ( as it's single wall) and said they would catch creosite, and be difficult to clean to a safe condition.
2. He pointed out the pipe was bent in a curve to go into the stove, instead of using using a T connection.
3. He said the top of the chimney was almost completely blocked with soot, and it didn't have a mortar crown. Instead, they had put a flat sheet of metal.
4. There was no chimney pot on either side, although each has a chimney cap.

He's offering to put in about 25 feet of 6" smooth double walled liner, lifetime guarantee, (and the supply company is called Lifetime Chimney Supplies), 8x8 flue, crowns, etc. for $1200. I took down the backing I had put up behind the stove, and saw he was correct about the way it was connected. But, at least from the outside, it doesn't look worn. And if it's single wall, it's pretty damn thick.

I'm lost here. Does he sound on the level?
 
Well yes you may very well be getting scammed.
1. The pipe was the wrong kind. He said it was for gas, not wood. He pointed out the ridges which are on the outside and, of course, inside ( as it's single wall) and said they would catch creosite, and be difficult to clean to a safe condition.
There are plenty of single wall corrigated liners out there that are made for wood. The only way it would be unsuiateble is if it was aluminum.

2. He pointed out the pipe was bent in a curve to go into the stove, instead of using using a T connection.
Well yes that is not right but it only needs a tee added to fix it

3. He said the top of the chimney was almost completely blocked with soot, and it didn't have a mortar crown. Instead, they had put a flat sheet of metal.
Ok so it was almost blocked that is why you called him to clean it. And a metal plate is perfectly acceptable to finish off the top.

4. There was no chimney pot on either side, although each has a chimney cap.
Why would you need a chimney pot if you have caps?

He's offering to put in about 25 feet of 6" smooth double walled liner, lifetime guarantee, (and the supply company is called Lifetime Chimney Supplies), 8x8 flue, crowns, etc. for $1200. I took down the backing I had put up behind the stove, and saw he was correct about the way it was connected. But, at least from the outside, it doesn't look worn. And if it's single wall, it's pretty damn thick.
Well all of that for $1200 is pretty cheap. if he is talking about puting chimney pots up there that should be close to that price if he is actually talking about chimney pots.
Next the liner he is proposing is junk and i would absolutly never put that type of liner in much less from lifetime
 
It is possible that you liner could need replace if it is light wall after 10 years but not for the reasons he said get another opinion
 
1. A picture is worth a 1000 words here. If it's SS 6" Flex pipe, I don't know why he would say it's for gas. The "ridges" are normal.Sounds like he just prefers smooth wall which is a waste if your pipe is in good shape.
2. I don't think the lack of a T violates code but I sure would want a T connecting the stove to the flue.
3.Flat sheet metal for a crown - not sure
4.I'm not sure what a chimney pot is.

His price does not seem bad.
 
His price does not seem bad.
it is way to cheap if he is actually going to fix all of the problems he pointed out. I would run away

3.Flat sheet metal for a crown sounds like a hack job
Not nessecarily. it could be just fine we would have to see pics
 
Well yes you may very well be getting scammed.

There are plenty of single wall corrigated liners out there that are made for wood. The only way it would be unsuiateble is if it was aluminum.


Well yes that is not right but it only needs a tee added to fix it


Ok so it was almost blocked that is why you called him to clean it. And a metal plate is perfectly acceptable to finish off the top.


Why would you need a chimney pot if you have caps?


Well all of that for $1200 is pretty cheap. if he is talking about puting chimney pots up there that should be close to that price if he is actually talking about chimney pots.
Next the liner he is proposing is junk and i would absolutly never put that type of liner in much less from lifetime


Thanks for the reply. I looked up Lifetime, which is based here on Long Island. They have an A+ rating on BBB, and no complaints - not even resolved ones. They've been in business since 2002. That's about as far as I could go, I couldn't find any reviews - good or bad - when searching. Can you tell me why you think they make a bad product? I appreciate your help.
 
Can you tell me why you think they make a bad product? I appreciate your help.
i have dealt with their sales people and would never give them a dime they were rude pushy and offensive
 
If he didn't like it curving into the back of the stove instead of using a tee, he would have a coronary if he saw my basement chimney with the flex liner gently turned into the crock all the way to the wall thimble.
 
If he didn't like it curving into the back of the stove instead of using a tee, he would have a coronary if he saw my basement chimney with the flex liner gently turned into the crock all the way to the wall thimble.
so would i bb so would i
 
Three days trying to get that damned tee in there and it being too far down under it to the clean out anyway finally did it. It has been a sweetheart to burn into and easy to clean for 10 years now.
 
Where on longisland are you?
 
Where on longisland are you?

I'm in Brentwood. I just did a Google Earth to check his claim that most houses have chimney caps, which seems to be correct. I also looked up WHY a chimney cap, aside from looking nice, is helpful. It seems that with a wood burning stove, it is recommended - and not just by places that sell chimney caps.

Still not sure about the necessity of replacing the stove pipe. I'm guessing that, since it's being run inside a chimney, I don't need Class A Chimney? He's saying he "guarantees" that the pipe I have now has holes, caused by creosite build-up and heat damage (mainly the latter). I'm thinking I'll inspect the pipe as he takes it out - he even said he expects the pipe to crumble, but from what I saw, it looks pretty darn intact.

I'm still wondering about the claim that it's "gas pipe". I looked that up, and only found the term Type B Vent Pipe - which looks nothing like what I have.
 
You might get a couple more opinions from certified sweeps before proceeding.
www.csia,org
 
Ok, I've been reading some more about this. Am I right about this?

With my wood burning stove (NOT an insert, it's a stove) I should be using black stove pipe to connect to a T, and from there it should be chimney pipe. What I have now is stainless steel single wall flue liner, which he is replacing with stainless steel double wall flue liner. Which, unless I'm missing something, is also wrong.

Or is the flue liner ok?
 
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Ok, I've been reading some more about this. Am I right about this?

With my wood burning stove (NOT an insert, it's a stove) I should be using black stove pipe to connect to a T, and from there it should be chimney pipe. What I have now is stainless steel single wall flue liner, which he is replacing with stainless steel double wall flue liner. Which, unless I'm missing something, is also wrong.

Or is the flue liner ok?
Unless your liner is indeed deteriorating I would leave things alone. It's not perfect, for cleaning but the Jotul has a removable top with facilitates access, so not a big deal. Get a second and third opinion from a certified sweep.
 
Unless your liner is indeed deteriorating I would leave things alone. It's not perfect, for cleaning but the Jotul has a removable top with facilitates access, so not a big deal. Get a second and third opinion from a certified sweep.

Ok, I'm getting the feeling, subtle but there, that most people here think this is not on the level. He's supposed to do the install tomorrow. I'm going to call him in the morning and tell him I want a second opinion.
 
If the liner is not deteriorating or in bad shape then why replace it? Have you had any chimney fires?
 
Ok, I'm getting the feeling, subtle but there, that most people here think this is not on the level. He's supposed to do the install tomorrow. I'm going to call him in the morning and tell him I want a second opinion.
Did he scan it to see those holes in the liner? If not there is no way for him to know. Yes your liner should have a cap but you said it already did right? Yes you should have a tee whether it is stove pipe or liner doesnt matter i personally would use liner. It should also have a block off plate and insulation but really non of those are reasons to pull out the pipe.
 
when did he initially come out to look at it?
 
As begreen says, get another opinion. It sounds like he is assuming it has holes rather than inspecting at and it having holes. Get someone who can scope it and see if it has failed. It would be better if it was insulated and would probably run cleaner if it was. How often were you having it cleaned?
 
Ok, heading off to bed now, but I really appreciate all the responses. To answer questions:
No, I've never had a chimney fire.
He came out on Sunday to look at it. He didn't use a scope.
I have a chimney cap, as in a metal cage that surrounds the chimney, but not a chimney cap as in what is also referred to as a chimney "pot", the piece that sticks up from the top of the chimney.
I've used Sleepy Hollow, I probably should have contacted them first, but my wife got a Groupon and the company seemed to check out.
I'm going to call the guy, Mke, from Island Chimney Service, first thing in the morning.
 
have a chimney cap, as in a metal cage that surrounds the chimney, but not a chimney cap as in what is also referred to as a chimney "pot", the piece that sticks up from the top of the chimney.
Ok that is not right a chimney pot is a decorative clay (or now some are metal cap that extends up pretty far. You have a screen what he is referring to is just a cap.
He came out on Sunday to look at it.
I am sorry but any pro tat this time of year can scedule a liner that fast would scare me everyone i know is at minimum 4 weeks out. we are 9 weeks out right now.

I would call them back and tell them they need to come out and scan it while you watch the camera and have them point out the holes. If they are there then yes you need a liner but dont get that double wall crap. either just use light wall again our get what i recomend which is heavy wall.
 
Did he scan it to see those holes in the liner? If not there is no way for him to know. Yes your liner should have a cap but you said it already did right? Yes you should have a tee whether it is stove pipe or liner doesnt matter i personally would use liner. It should also have a block off plate and insulation but really non of those are reasons to pull out the pipe.

What about the need to insulate the liner? Unless I missed it there was no mention of the liner being insulated.
 
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