"max burn time" not even close in real life?????

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Huntindog1 said:
You maybe able to improve your wood cycle times if you load on just a small amount of hot coals so you can get a full load of splits in the stove. Try and do restarts on a small amount hot coals using the additional help of kindling and a fire starter like a supercedar or another type of good firestarter. The kindling and firestarter on some hot coals will get the heat built up faster in the stove and let you start turning down your input air in small increments and getting this turn down completed quicker. As the small kindling on top of the big splits will burn with the door shuut and the input air shut down in faster increments. Increments of 1/4 ways each time should work. As each time you close that input air and the fire is still burning the heat builds faster in the stove and the heat isnt getting flush up the flue as much but more of it is staying in the firebox for a faster start up. Plus good dry wood makes these start up faster so you can get the heat built up in the fire box and the input air shut down to its all night burn setting quicker. If you let the stove get too hot and the heat built up too much before shutting the air back down the wood will burn much fast and limit the burn cycle time. As the cycle time includes the coal stage as it was once said half your heat in a load in during the coal stage and not much flame if any at all .

Looks like the stove takes 22" splits so if your not using the full length you wont get the full capacity of the stove.
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Your point of refiring fast and hot is well taken because that allows shutting down the air faster. As you wrote, that produces a longer period of heat output. I find that I can best get the fast refire if I work from a deep bed of coals. That doesn't limit space for the load of new wood very much. The difference is that I don't use much kindling. But I'm going to follow your suggestion and reduce the volume of coals (either by allowing them to burn down more or by cleaning them out), then use more kindling. That will tell me whether there's an advantage in spending the time to make the additional kindling. There's always more to learn.
 
Huntindog1 said:
You maybe able to improve your wood cycle times if you load on just a small amount of hot coals so you can get a full load of splits in the stove. Try and do restarts on a small amount hot coals using the additional help of kindling and a fire starter like a supercedar or another type of good firestarter. The kindling and firestarter on some hot coals will get the heat built up faster in the stove and let you start turning down your input air in small increments and getting this turn down completed quicker. As the small kindling on top of the big splits will burn with the door shuut and the input air shut down in faster increments. Increments of 1/4 ways each time should work. As each time you close that input air and the fire is still burning the heat builds faster in the stove and the heat isnt getting flush up the flue as much but more of it is staying in the firebox for a faster start up. Plus good dry wood makes these start up faster so you can get the heat built up in the fire box and the input air shut down to its all night burn setting quicker. If you let the stove get too hot and the heat built up too much before shutting the air back down the wood will burn much fast and limit the burn cycle time. As the cycle time includes the coal stage as it was once said half your heat in a load in during the coal stage and not much flame if any at all .

Looks like the stove takes 22" splits so if your not using the full length you wont get the full capacity of the stove.
Click to expand...
Your point of refiring fast and hot is well taken because that allows shutting down the air faster. As you wrote, that produces a longer period of heat output. I find that I can best get the fast refire if I work from a deep bed of coals. That doesn't limit space for the load of new wood very much. The difference is that I don't use much kindling. But I'm going to follow your suggestion and reduce the volume of coals (either by allowing them to burn down more or by cleaning them out), then use more kindling. That will tell me whether there's an advantage in spending the time to make the additional kindling. There's always more to learn.
firefighterjake said:
Some of it may be marketing BS . . . the true issue is that many of us look at the glossy brochures and pretty pics and descriptions on line and see that Stove A has a "burn time" of X hours . . . but very few of us ever stop to ask the salesman or company what their definition of "burn time" is . . . heck, even here we've had discussions about what that definition is: a) the time from when the match is lit to when the stove is at the ambient temp of the room, b) the time from when the match is lit until there are no glowing coals, c) the time from when the stove is producing a measurable amount of heat at __ degrees F to the time when that temp falls below ___ degrees F? The thing is . . . there really is no set answer and certainly no one answer that all of the stove manufacturers agree to follow.

Then . . . add in the fact that even if Hearth.com member Joe Blow and I agree to the same definition and have the same stove, our results may vary . . . depending on the wood (species, how well seasoned it is, etc.) we put in the stove, the draft (i.e. does Joe Blow have a flue damper he can use or perhaps he has a very tall chimney that will eat up the wood quicker, etc.), how full we fill the firebox (i.e. I cut my wood mostly to 18 inches, but maybe JoeBlow is able to get another 5 or so inches of wood on each split into the firebox or conversely maybe his supplier only sells 16 inch splits), how we run the stove (i.e. when does Joe Blow reload, maybe Joe Blow turns down the air more than me or does so sooner in the burn, etc.) . . . and so results can vary.
Click to expand...
Yes, and reloading in an east-west configuration produces a longer burn than a north-south load, but the new load does not burn as fast or as hot. Because the east-west load does not refire as fast, it takes longer to shut down the air intake and requires more patience. There is no one right or best way.
 
I'm glad this forum convinced me to switch from a non-cat to a cat stove years ago. I sure don't miss those reloads right before bed, really full and tight, hoping that the house wouldn't be cold in the morning and then reloading in the morning to try and catch up.

As this thread has again proven, long burn times are extremely important to people that actually burn wood for their heat. Getting a solid 12 to 30 hour burn time at an output level low enough to not roast you out of a normal sized house is pretty well impossible with a non-cat it seems.
 
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The non EPA stove i started out with had a burn time of 2 hours. People actually used to heat their homes with these things. Was ready to give up wood heat until i got a Harman and saw what a well engineered wood stove could do.
 
Homes and local climate vary enormously. The majority heat their home quite well with non-cat 24/7 burners. Successful heating is more about technique and personal schedules. In our mild climate with perpetual shoulder seasons heating with the heat pump makes better economic and environmental sense when temps are in the 50's and above. Since we've dropped into the 40s and 30s we've switched to 24/7 wood heating. The house temp has been very even on 3 loads a day. This is the same burn cycle reported by some Woodstock Fireview owners. The mass of our stove keeps the place comfortable if we oversleep in the morning and there are always hot coals for a quick restart. Keeping this schedule is pretty easy with everyone in the family knowing how to load and run the stove and we love the nice fire view. That said, if you are away from the house for 12 hrs at a time then a cat stove will offer you a better alternative for long burns at low burn temps.
 
Highbeam said:
As this thread has again proven, long burn times are extremely important to people that actually burn wood for their heat. Getting a solid 12 to 30 hour burn time at an output level low enough to not roast you out of a normal sized house is pretty well impossible with a non-cat it seems.
Click to expand...
I actually burn wood for heat. Temps are supposed to drop to zero or a touch below tomorrow night and January and Feb are sure to bring much colder temps. I load my stoves 3 times a day versus probably 2 with a cat stove...big f%&king deal. While cat stoves shine in shoulder seasons they make little difference in cold climates. I would much rather enjoy the light show in a stove and have a lower up front cost then saving possibly one load per day if I'm lucky.
 
There's more to it than just loads per day, but 2 vs. 3 is huge you have to load the stove 50% more often! The other huge benefit of long burn times is the ability to easily run through the night (or through a work shift) without reloading while maintaining a constant output for the whole burn. We're not talking 8 hours but 10 or 12.

It's not a cat non-cat issue as much as it is a burn time issue. With today's offerings, the only way to get a really long burn time is with a cat stove.
 
When its cold out few if any stoves get a really long burn time. 8 to 12 hours is the max with any stove, cat or non cat.
 
This is my second season with an Isle Royale and I have been anticipating what owners of the Explorer III have to say about the big burn times listed in the brochure and the 4000 ft heating area. So far I have found top loading to be so convenient that going back to a front loader seems unlikely. One of the things I notice about filling this stove up is the area under the baffle pivot which is tough to load up and wonder if the Explorer III is the same layout?

Lately been reading a lot about catalytic stoves, they sound like a handy thing to have going for you at the end of a long AT&T day in the winter.
 
mellow said:
With a 3 cu ft firebox you should be getting 8 hours easily
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Exactly.
And to those asking about the wood, if the wood is not completely dry, that will make a longer burn (and cooler), not shorter...
 
Cat stoves are nice , I would like to own one. A person has to be willing to pay more money them and for that reason most people new to wood stoves get a non-cat to start out with. Sizing the stove is important. Then learning how to use them is also. Most people dont understand that good seasoned wood makes operating the stove so much easier and the performance of the stove so much better. New wood burners have a learning curve to go thru and then go out and get sub-par wood and it makes it very discouraging to burn wood.
 
How burn time is technically defined....IDK. I personally define it as the time I pack the stove to when it is down to non glowing coals (the ones buried in the ashes that you have to dig to find. But can be piled and easily will start burning.)

The only stove I have ever owned is the Hearhstone Phoenix. I can tell you that my burn time is roughly 8 - 10 hours (and I rarely if ever close the damper). When it is 20 degrees and above that is all well and good. The house will stay plenty warm even though those little coals aren't throwing off the heat. But when it is below that (especially when it is well into the negatives) then I only let it go 4 hours or less to keep the heat up.

I have no idea how your stove works, but the biggest thing I have to watch in mine are the gaskets. When they lose the seal my burn time drops dramatically.
 
I went from a Jotul Firelite Cat. to a Quad Isle Royale. Both efficient stoves with different technologies. When the guts of the Jotul started breaking down after 19 years it was time for a new stove. I have burned for 40+ years. My experience with these last two stoves and burn times had more to do with dry wood, type of wood and how much I can get into it. More fuel equals more heat. One note on the IR.... you will never get as much wood in through the top as you can through the front. The mechanism that pivots the tubes is the limiter. All that means to me is in shoulder season I have the option of using the top load, but in Jan Feb I load her through the front. To me burning wood is much more an art than a science.
 
o me burning wood is science. If it were art my old stoves would be in a gallery and I'd be a millionaire. Lol. :confused:
 
Front loading does give better access in the Isle Royale and really, I cant complain about the burns if I'm not packing it to the gills and it still burns overnight. For me the days over fiddling with my stove whilst on bent knee are bitter memories. Shoulder season seems to be gone for the moment so I'm gonna get my burn on for a while, dogs are already getting in their hot seats.
 

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bushman said:
Front loading does give better access in the Isle Royale and really, I cant complain about the burns if I'm not packing it to the gills and it still burns overnight. For me the days over fiddling with my stove whilst on bent knee are bitter memories. Shoulder season seems to be gone for the moment so I'm gonna get my burn on for a while, dogs are already getting in their hot seats.
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Yep!! Watching the flames dance in the IR right now!
 
I think its always good to have some type of a backup heat source with wood heat. Since 24/7 consistent same temp heat in every room is so hard to achieve with wood. A gas ,oil or electric backup heat source that can be set just under the desired house temp and can kick on as the stove is between cycles. It makes wood heat a pleasure rather than a second job and removes the need to rush home every time your away from the stove more than a few hours.
 
How do you do that when reloading? I don't think that anyone that just lights a fire and let's it burn out should be expecting to reach their stoves max rated burn times.
 
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