Wood shed concept

Ashful · Dec 16, 2015

I've been toying with the idea of building some long (as in 4' wide x 100' long) roofs over my long stacks, to season and shed in-place, as opposed to the more typical 10' x 20' dual bay with single pitch roof sheds I see here. My reasoning is that, with processing and moving as much wood as I do, I can't bear the idea of stacking out in the open, and then handling that much wood again to pack it in a shed in the months or year prior to moving it up to the house and stacking it on the porch (three moves, post-splitting?).

I have three stacks, each 4' wide x 100' long x 6' high. I'm thinking I can sink 6x6 x 10' PT posts every 8 feet down the centerline length of each stack, set a ridge between them, and build a nice little cedar-shake roof down the length of each stack. Attractive and functional. I'd leave 10 feet of space between stacks (i.e. stacks on 14' centers), so I continue to have a lot of room for maneuvering tractor and front-end loader with trailer between rows.

Seems absolutely brilliant, but then I wonder why this isn't the standard way of doing it? What's the down-side in this idea?

velvetfoot · Dec 17, 2015

"I have three stacks, each 4' wide x 100' long x 6' high" =7200 ft3=56.25 cords That's more than the ~40 I have.

I'm no carpenter.
If it's still 6' high, plus a foot, maybe more? to the peak in the middle, 10' posts, 3 feet available to sink post?
Would the 6x6 be used for aesthetics, or do you think it's needed?
I'm thinking a shed roof would be more practical to lean in and stack and retrieve the wood, but that might not work with the single post concept, and wouldn't look as good. Even if you could make it work, could it catch the wind easier? Again, I'm not a carpenter.

I'd make sure that 10' was good, unless you know it is, because it'd be hard to undo your nice work.

I also don't know why you currently feel the need to move it into a shed prior to the porch. I'm not sure what you're gaining vs. just top covering and then moving to porch. It'd be a different story if you were drawing from the shed during the winter.

If nothing else, you'll be freeing up your square shed by using your linear canopy concept.

I like the 4' wide linear stack system myself, but I've amassed 3 wood cubes, with each cube a triaxle log load's worth, plus other 4' wide stacks. Not sure yet how they'll wind up seasoning. Both stacks let me roll up in my lawn tractor and trailer-no wheelbarrow required.

BenTN · Dec 17, 2015

i agree with velvetfoot that a shed style roof would be more practical and easier/cheaper to build.

the idea of building linear shed versus square is the amount of usable sqft. if done with a 12" overhang around, to keep the slanting rain/snow out, you loose a lot of space with long narrow sheds.

example: a 6'x100' roof covers 600sqft, subtract the 12" overhang and it leaves you with 388sqft of usable space. a 20'x30' roof covers 600sqft, subtract the 12" overhang and this leaves 500sqft of usable space. thats probably a couple cords or more stacked at 6'.

it all comes down to space available and appearance for you.

gzecc · Dec 17, 2015

I some what follow the linear shed concept. I have since bought longer covers. I like it because its portable. Like you said, no moving the wood around. Once stacked it stays there until its brought up to the house. I move the tops around to 6 months prior to use.

kennyp2339 · Dec 17, 2015

I like the idea, I would just be worried that it would act like a huge kite during a severe thunderstorm.

gzecc · Dec 17, 2015

kennyp2339 said:
I like the idea, I would just be worried that it would act like a huge kite during a severe thunderstorm.

The posts are sunk into the ground at least a foot I also put a concrete block on top for added weight.

Longstreet · Dec 17, 2015

Sounds like you are just building a gable roof over your 100 ft long stacks. Nothing wrong with that.

If I understand you right, you want to use only post down the center of the line, right under the ridge. To do that, you would have to run beams down both edges of the stacks supported by cantilevered arms tied to each post. That would be a pretty decent sized beam at each edge.

You would have to have rafters supported by this beam probably every 24 inches. Also would need rafter ties (think ceiling joist) at least every 48 inches to prevent the spreading. I'm ending up with a design similar to this?

Maybe I'm just not understanding your layout.

Edit: No, you wouldn't need rafter ties. At least if you used a ridge beam instead of a ridge board. If you used a beam you would not have any spreading force as the rafters only have downward loads.

jatoxico · Dec 17, 2015

Ashful said:
What's the down-side in this idea?

Down side I see as far as why others don't do it is the structure you describe serves no other useful purpose and only top covers. A good sized shed looks good, can be used for other stuff, provides full protection for ready to burn wood and only one path to plow in the snow.

Certainly would work for you but I might look into ways of racking the wood for moving it in bulk w/ that Deere.

Poindexter · Dec 17, 2015

The down side is you are buying a lot of shingles relative to the amount of wood you are covering. If you piled all your wood in a big cube you could build a house around it with fewer materials - except the foundation would need upgrading.

Probably would look pretty good from not very far away the way you describe it. Other upsides, existing adequate foundation and build as you go.

How much trouble would it be for you to palletize off the splitter and eventually tractor/ fork pallets of seasoned wood to the house? I wouldn't give up the trigger finger on my dominant hand for that ability, but we could talk about other fingers to trade....

stack green wood on pallets, drive tractor around on farm, move seasoned wood from pallet in garage to stove in next room. Gosh. Wonder how big a concrete pad with a pole barn on it it would take to hold 40-50 cords of palletized seasoned wood.

therdlesstravld · Dec 17, 2015

I'll weigh in with a professional opinion. You can do anything you imagine with wood you'll just need to size everything accordingly and use the proper supporting beams. Youll need what's called braces in timber framing. Usually a curved beam that translates weight down to a support post. With only 1 post you'll need it to be very large and sunk very deeply to avoid deflection.

Do I think it would look f*cking awesome? Hell yea. Do I think it's worth it for a wood shelter... Probably but I'm not normal.

Ashful · Dec 17, 2015

You guys are on the right track. The reason for doing it this way is two-fold:

1. Of course, looking good is a big part of it. Are you new here? Cost is not a consideration, since we're not talking big money here, for any option. Practicality of use and time savings in moving wood over the years are the primary factors.
2. I can't stack this volume of wood green in a cube, and hope for it to ever dry, so I'm forced to stack in rows. Might as well get it top-covered where it stands, I figure. If I go with a more typical 10 x 20 shed, I believe I'd have to first stack outside in rows, and then move into the shed later.

@jatoxico, I don't need it for anything but top-cover! Might throw the splitter under whatever section might be empty at the time, but that's about it. I have a barn for storing stuff, so no need for another shed.

Actually meant 6x6 x 12', was just typing too fast and not thinking... I'll go back and fix that. Yes, it would be built full timber-frame style (I do a bit of timber framing in my various old barns, so nothing new), with knee bracing from each post to heavy soffits with rafters every 24" on center, and purlins to carry the cedar shakes. This is all stuff I do fairly regular.

Down side of the single-post pavilion style is that I leave myself nothing as book-ends for my double-row stacks. Still debating the option of putting dual posts at each station, 24" apart, on 8' or 10' stations. This would give me book ends to contain each cord or so of the row, but does increase complexity of framing, as well as giving me more posts to get into alignment and the work of punching more holes.

So ease of use is where the primary question lies. I wouldn't mind just binning the wood and moving it in and out of a shed with the Deere, as jatoxico suggests, but I mostly burn oak and that little 855 ain't gonna move half-cord bins of green oak at 5000 lb./cord. I can't see building and maintaining bins much smaller than a half cord, either, but maybe I'm being short-sighted there. Lift capacity at the 3 point is around 1200 lb., but that drops to maybe 900 lb. with COG 24" off the links, as a bin is likely to be.

Oh, @Longstreet, you need to angle those braces perpendicular to the rafters, ideally 45 degrees with a 12:12 rafter. That allows you to drop the size of those cross braces to something practical. I usually use 2x3 full (not dimensional) for knee braces, such as this. I know I did a sketch of this structure a while back, but I'm not finding it on my home PC. Will have to check the work computer.

BenTN · Dec 18, 2015

Sounds like you have plan. Seems you don't share the same limiting factors of most people, time, money and space. Good luck with the build, would love to see some pics of the project.

jatoxico · Dec 18, 2015

Ashful said:
I don't need it for anything but top-cover! Might throw the splitter under whatever section might be empty at the time, but that's about it

Your OP asked why other folks don't do it so that's how I answered. I know you're willing to take on the expense and effort to get what you want and I think it will work for you.

I like your idea to scale up to 6, 4 is narrow for what you would be doing. If the posts also have to double as stack ends you'll have to add but you could sink smaller non structural posts to do that too (heck you could bang in metal sign/fence posts). They could be put after each shed was built and using whatever dimension lumber you wanted.

Since you're just kicking ideas around and you like to think big, how about removable panels for back walls? Something you could hang and fasten to make mini sheds for the finished stacks leaving others open for max air. I'm using tarping that I can roll up or drop as needed for my "shed". That would keep out most drifting snow and blown rain/ice. Probably overkill but you might not have thought so coming off last winter.

jeffesonm · Dec 18, 2015

I think the reason most people don't do this is it's not a real efficient use of space or materials. If you have 12" overhang on each side of a 4' wide stack, that's 2:1 wood overhang. Make it a 6' stack and you're at 3:1 or a 8' stack 4:1. I went with 8'x36', with 2' overhang all around... still pretty narrow and long, just not as dramatic as your plan. I ended up using one bay as a tractor garage/tool storage, and the 2' overhang is nice because it keeps all the rain off the wood and is enough space to work under while it's raining.

50 cords is a lot! How many per year do you burn? If you've got 4+ years worth, I think it would dry just fine in 8' wide stacks.

If you go with the pavilion roof, I would leave the single posts and just stick a pallet on each end inside the posts to use as bookends.

Longstreet · Dec 18, 2015

I think the reason this style of top covering works better for Ashful than people are expressing is because he has more money than time. I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I just get the feeling Ashful has plenty of dough based on the description of his house, his equipment, his location in a major metro area, and general style of discussion.

Basic geometry tells us that long, narrow "sheds" are not material efficient. But the traditional method of seasoning in rows and then stacking in a shed is not labor efficient, especially with 50 cords! Too much moving wood. A full sized shed for 50 cords from green to dry would be unsightly, unless it was built to look like a traditional barn. But that isn't ideal for drying and has it's own list of problems including access to the desired stacks. Sounds like all he is doing is buying time/labor and aesthetics with money. Factor in that I'm sure he will buy/rent a tractor mounted post hole digger and I don't see the problem. Unless they were not built straight. That would drive me crazy.

So put me down as believing this is the right solution for the right person. Wouldn't be appropriate for everyone, but I think it fits the situation.

bag of hammers · Dec 18, 2015

Longstreet said:
I think the reason this style of top covering works better for Ashful than people are expressing is because he has more money than time. I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I just get the feeling Ashful has plenty of dough based on the description of his house, his equipment, his location in a major metro area, and general style of discussion.

Basic geometry tells us that long, narrow "sheds" are not material efficient. But the traditional method of seasoning in rows and then stacking in a shed is not labor efficient, especially with 50 cords! Too much moving wood. A full sized shed for 50 cords from green to dry would be unsightly, unless it was built to look like a traditional barn. But that isn't ideal for drying and has it's own list of problems including access to the desired stacks. Sounds like all he is doing is buying time/labor and aesthetics with money. Factor in that I'm sure he will buy/rent a tractor mounted post hole digger and I don't see the problem. Unless they were not built straight. That would drive me crazy.

So put me down as believing this is the right solution for the right person. Wouldn't be appropriate for everyone, but I think it fits the situation.

I also have more money than time (disclaimer - I have zero time...) ;lol

Pat32rf · Dec 18, 2015

I feel I am doing good to find a stretch of unused ground that is 10' long and level that I can get to with the tractor after it snows for a month.
If I had a field I would definitely build a long shelter, then a bunch of 1/2 face cord racks that I could load from the splitter, store and age in the shed, then carry to the porch.

Ashful · Dec 18, 2015

jatoxico said:
I like your idea to scale up to 6, 4 is narrow for what you would be doing.

Hmm... The space where I have my stacks is a little limited on width (maybe 40 feet wide) but very long (hundreds of feet). Based on other obstacles, my stacks are pretty much staying on 14' centers. With a 6' roof, that leaves 8' aisles. I already have a little trouble swinging the corner into the end of the aisles closed to my property line, so I'd have to shift the rows down a bit to give myself more room there, I guess. Do-able, if necessary, but I should note that I'm now cutting much shorter to fit these smaller BK Ashford fireboxes! So, my stacks are going to shrink to 34" wide (unless I start doing triple-rows), and I was figuring a 48" roof would be enough to keep the snow off the stacks. Not sure how much it matters if a little wind-blown rain hits them, from time to time.

jatoxico said:
Since you're just kicking ideas around and you like to think big, how about removable panels for back walls? Something you could hang and fasten to make mini sheds for the finished stacks leaving others open for max air. I'm using tarping that I can roll up or drop as needed for my "shed". That would keep out most drifting snow and blown rain/ice. Probably overkill but you might not have thought so coming off last winter.

It's funny, but I had the same thing in my original plans. Big lattice panels, hanging from eye bolts under each eave, and braced to each post with a simple plank on eye screws. I dropped the idea, figuring it might be good if I wanted to store the splitter under one of the roofs, but probably overkill for the firewood. Heck, I'm just covering with plastic now, and not having any trouble, other than I hate looking at ugly plastic over pallet rack stacks.

jeffesonm said:
50 cords is a lot! How many per year do you burn?

Whoa! I'm coming in way under 50 cords. Stacks are 6' high, which really means 5.5' of wood on 0.5' of pallet, and 40" wide by about 150' total length. I figure it at a little over 20 cords.

bag of hammers said:
I also have more money than time (disclaimer - I have zero time...)

Ditto. Daylight hours, or even those where I can go out and make all sorts of racket saws and tractors, are precious and few. I'm no billionaire, but within the context of what any normal woodshed should cost, project cost is not factor.

I'm not sure what happened to my old sketches. Can't find them on the home PC, and my VPN to work is down at the moment. Will have to see if I can find them, later. I am liking jatoxico's idea of smaller, non-structural posts for the book-ends on double-wide rows. Will have to mull on that tomorrow.

jatoxico · Dec 19, 2015

Ashful said:
It's funny, but I had the same thing in my original plans. Big lattice panels, hanging from eye bolts under each eave, and braced to each post with a simple plank on eye screws

I wanted to make up a Roman shade using heavy canvas like they used for old army tents that could be raised and lowered with a couple cords. Ended up cutting down my old pool cover that I roll by hand. Not as fancy but it does keep out a lot of weather.

Isaac Carlson · Dec 19, 2015

You could store the same amount of wood in a 30x40 shed if it is stacked 6 feet high. Of course it would take longer to dry in a shed, but it would be safe.
I use the end of my 40x80 pole shed for storing wood as well as the end of my "long shed", which is just a really long machine shed that is 16 feet deep. Don't ask how long, because I don't know, it's just long. I also have racks of wood between the 2 sheds. Not the best system, but is working until I get something better set up. Do what works for you, not what works for others.

maple1 · Dec 19, 2015

I think you have a FEL?

Personally, with a FEL, I would forego & bypass any type of shed or shelter construction, and just palletize everything. Even if you build a shed of whatever construction, it still amounts to an extra stacking & moving step.

Palletized wood + FEL = awesomeness.

Ashful · Dec 19, 2015

Not a bad thought, but I'm figuring maybe 2500 lb for a half cord pallet of fresh oak, and my FEL dumps out around 1100 lb., I think. Even dried to 20% MC, we'd be looking at 1700 lb. for a half cord on a pallet. I think I'd have to step up to a 50+ hp tractor to move firewood with the FEL, or stack those pallets short, and figure a way to rack 'em two high.

I have to admit, the idea of handling just once is very attractive. But on the other hand, driving full pallets of wood up to the house would mean bringing any critters hiding in the stacks with it. I always find nests of mice, beetles, queen bees, and stink bugs in the wood, when moving from wood lot to house.

bag of hammers · Dec 19, 2015

Ashful said:
I always find nests of mice, beetles, queen bees, and stink bugs in the wood, when moving from wood lot to house

Mice love the stacks here - not uncommon to find more than one nest one a single pallet some years. Finding the woodstack residents far away from the house before they can hitch a ride is the upside of moving everything by hand. Also being primarily a weekend burner means having less volume to deal with. But I'd still love to have some toys like FEL - I'd be screwed if I had to heat a large place, multiple stoves, 24/7. The project sounds interesting - might steal some ideas here on a smaller scale and add to my project wish list one day.

maple1 · Dec 19, 2015

Ashful said:
Not a bad thought, but I'm figuring maybe 2500 lb for a half cord pallet of fresh oak, and my FEL dumps out around 1100 lb., I think. Even dried to 20% MC, we'd be looking at 1700 lb. for a half cord on a pallet. I think I'd have to step up to a 50+ hp tractor to move firewood with the FEL, or stack those pallets short, and figure a way to rack 'em two high.

I have to admit, the idea of handling just once is very attractive. But on the other hand, driving full pallets of wood up to the house would mean bringing any critters hiding in the stacks with it. I always find nests of mice, beetles, queen bees, and stink bugs in the wood, when moving from wood lot to house.

If you stack to a pallet off the splitter, then stack from the pallet to your porch as the final move I assume just before winter (you stage wood on the porch before the final move to the stove when burning?), then you can do your critter check in that last pallet-to-porch step. You would save a lot of moving hassle. Also, depending what you use for pallets, you might be looking at something closer to 1/4 to 1/3 cord of wood. Which would be fully dried for the final move to the porch. Some use cage totes, those stack double high pretty stable without a lot of hassle.

Of course and also - a good reason to get a bigger tractor isn't such a bad thing is it?

NHcpa · Dec 19, 2015

My 4' wide x 24' long raised rack. Easy load and great airflow.

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