Update on my VC 1450 Encore lemon

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sean b

Member
Oct 19, 2015
90
Central PA
In case anyone is interested (or needs help getting to sleep)...

I found this site shortly after noticing I had some serious problems with my Vermont Castings Encore 1450 non cat. We purchased it in the fall of 2008 and started burning it in January of 2009. Burned it 24/7 during the cold months since and it did an outstanding job of heating our house. Fast forward to a October of this year... I was doing my annual cleaning of the stove and chimney in preparation for heating season and noticed that the 'fountain assembly' (secondary burn chamber) was badly disintegrated. Having found this site in search of answers and advice, I found out what so many others already knew about this stove. When we took delivery of the stove, I immediately noticed a crack from top to bottom on the refractory shoe. Called the dealer in Michigan and they said no worries... just a cosmetic blemish that won't affect performance. The manufacturer recently told me in an email that that was a poor response from the dealer and that it likely expedited the demise of the fountain assembly by introducing too much combustion air. The original dealer was also quick to blame me for improperly operating the stove, never mind that they made that diagnosis over the phone. I contacted Vermont Castings and they advised me to work with a local dealer on repairs and possibly warranty coverage, since the refractory parts are warranted for life (depending on when the stove was built since the company had changed hands around the time I bought the stove). The lower refractory had also come out in two parts during disassembly. So I contacted a local dealer and they agreed to help me process a warranty claim. I never had high hopes since I had learned so much about the stove and the history of the company but I figured it was worth a try. 3 weeks went by without a call back. Every time I called the dealer, they said they were waiting to hear from the distributor (BAC). I finally contacted VC directly and expressed my frustration to them again and they agreed to examine my claim directly. The day before Thanksgiving, I received an email back from VC that they would not be able to help me because the stove was manufactured in 2007, when the company was under different ownership. On that same day, I got a call from the local dealer saying that BAC had agreed to replace the parts under warranty. Even the cracked rear casting that was not covered under the lifetime warranty. Wow!

So today I got a call that my stove had been rebuilt and was ready for pickup. All parts were covered and labor cost me $413. I suppose I could have rebuilt it myself but I guess the local dealer needed something for all their troubles, especially since they didn't sell me the stove originally. I have mixed feelings, obviously, since I know the new fountain assembly will not last forever.... but this should give me a cushion of several years to plan for a replacement and for EPA compliant stoves to make that much more progress. It's too bad that a stove as beautiful as this one (midnight blue) is such a problem child.

Reminds me of the super hot girl in high school who seemed to have it all, except for being crazy.
 
Sounds like time to sell a stove with "new factory re-burn assembly".

Thanks for the update.

Ten years here and I am yet to hear anything but trouble from those downdraft stoves.
 
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I don't know much about the engineering and dynamics behind this stuff but I'm constantly wondering if there's a more robust way of manufacturing that assembly. Why must it have the consistency of a material that reminds me of highly-compressed cotton candy?
 
Harman licensed the tech from VC and uses it in their downdraft stoves. The "fountain" in Harman's stoves used to be cast iron and they later changed it to cast refractory. I have always wondered what that was about and nobody will tell me.
 
The simpleton in me was wondering exactly that: why can't it be cast iron or some equally beefed-up material? Or even the same refractory material that the lower piece and shoe are made from?
 
Well, in spite of all the frustration and conflicting information, I'm glad you got your stove fixed although not entirely for free. In the mean time I think I would make sure with your dealer what kind of guarantees you have on the repaired stove.
 
I am guessing that even cast iron would have a tendency to "erode" in the direct flame environment of that refractory. Cast is a superior material for heat/cool cycles and is very "tough" in the world of metals, but not any better equipped than other metals when direct high temp flame impingement is concerned.
 
It makes me very sad to see Vermont Castings make such a piece of junk.
Back in the eighties they made great stoves.
 
It makes me very sad to see Vermont Castings make such a piece of junk.
Back in the eighties they made great stoves.

Cheer up, this model hasn't been produced since 2010 when the 2n1 model was introduced. The 2n1 (flexburn) models have none of the soft refractory found in the 1450 and is well designed. Apples and oranges.
 
The simpleton in me was wondering exactly that: why can't it be cast iron or some equally beefed-up material? Or even the same refractory material that the lower piece and shoe are made from?

Good question, if VC would build these parts out of the same hard refractory material they currently use in the 2n1 (flexburn) models there would be zero problem with these parts disintegrating.
 
Good question, if VC would build these parts out of the same hard refractory material they currently use in the 2n1 (flexburn) models there would be zero problem with these parts disintegrating.
I'm guessing that due to the limited numbers of this model that were produced, there's probably not enough of a market out there to support a new design for an after market fountain assembly.
 
Any idea if and where I can purchase this hard refractory material?
 
"...is well designed." Yeah, right. If you want a VC go right ahead, I will stick with the Norwegian stove.
 
I am guessing that even cast iron would have a tendency to "erode" in the direct flame environment of that refractory. Cast is a superior material for heat/cool cycles and is very "tough" in the world of metals, but not any better equipped than other metals when direct high temp flame impingement is concerned.
Agreed, also suspect it's because the refractory is a better insulator and can perform at higher temps.
 
Good question, if VC would build these parts out of the same hard refractory material they currently use in the 2n1 (flexburn) models there would be zero problem with these parts disintegrating.
To be determined. IIRC there have already been a few reports of the 2n1 failing due to cracked refractory and uncontrollable stoves. One fellow was replacing the refractory annually.
 
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"...is well designed." Yeah, right. If you want a VC go right ahead, I will stick with the Norwegian stove.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why the new VC flexburn is not a good design. Do you actually have any experience with this model?

Pretty sure I read that VC was producing the castings for some of those "Norwegian" stoves, hopefully your stove wasn't one of them.
 
Pretty sure that Jotul is shipping over the castings for their original stoves. However the Maine created stoves (F45, F50 & F55) and inserts may use VC castings, that would make good sense. VC's foundry is excellent. Rumor is that VC will be dropping the downdraft refractory design for a more conventional design. Not sure if this is true or not yet, but it might make sense with the new ownership.
 
To be determined. IIRC there have already been a few reports of the 2n1 failing due to cracked refractory and uncontrollable stoves. One fellow was replacing the refractory annually.

Any links? I've been through all the 2n1 threads on this site and don't recall reading that. There was an issue with the early access covers cracking but VC introduced a new version which appears to have eliminated that problem.
 
Search on 2N1. It think it was in 2014? Stove was 4 yrs old and the owner said they had replaced the part once every year.
 
Whatever the case, when it comes time to buy another new stove in several years, VC will not get the chance to burn me twice. Just too many other reputable manufacturers out there.
 
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