BK Ashford Smoke Smell Follow Up

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The issue is being reported too frequently to be imagined. If the folks have an Ashford replacing another stove they should be believed if they are noting a persistent difference.
Yup, I cannot understand how people can still be approaching the reported issues as if owners are just being overly sensitive, or have poor drafts. Seems alot of people replaced previous stoves and now suddenly have no draft, at all. I'm running a cat stove in the "warm" pacific northwest, with 15' single wall pipe in an exterior chimney, and 2 or 3 feet of horizontal run straight out the back of the stove before shooting up. No smoke smell once the door is shut. Now I know my stove is not doing BK type low burns, but even if I stretch it out it still sends all the exhaust up the chimney like every other stove I've used.
 
Is there a tool to sniff smoke? None of us are getting smoke or co alarms going off. On low burns I can smell a smoke like smell above the hinge side. Not in the room. The cat glows a lot and the metal on the stove top gets really hot. There's always dust up there too. Do you think we're smelling burning dust?
 
One fix for the smoke smell that I saw was someone removed their gasket, then created a smooth area for the gasket to sit using either gasket cement, RTV, something like that. I smell faint smoke while mine is running as well, but it doesn't bother me so I haven't looked into it yet.

Evidently the door gasket on BKs sits directly on top of the nuts for the door glass. I can't understand why they did this, but a design like that will never seal completely, you're just relying on the draft to overcome the leak. A stove gasket will conform a bit to a bumpy surface, but not that much. Those other stoves that don't leak probably have a flat surface on both sides of the gasket.
 
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Evidently the door gasket on BKs sits directly on top of the nuts for the door glass. I can't understand why they did this, but a design like that will never seal completely, you're just relying on the draft to overcome the leak. A stove gasket will conform a bit to a bumpy surface, but not that much. Those other stoves that don't leak probably have a flat surface on both sides of the gasket.

Correct. It would be great if that is the root of the problem. At least there's a possible fix.
 
mine smells like smoke and dog breath. I can't tell.
You need to leave the house and get some fresh air up yer nose, then come back home after half a day; You'll be able to tell then. ==c
One fix for the smoke smell that I saw was someone removed their gasket, then created a smooth area for the gasket to sit using either gasket cement, RTV, something like that....the door gasket on BKs sits directly on top of the nuts for the door glass....a design like that will never seal completely, you're just relying on the draft to overcome the leak.
Yeah, this "problem" was solved in a thread last year, and earlier in this one. Guess nobody except you remembered. What the heck, there's no wood-burning to speak of going on, we gotta have something to talk about. ;lol
Why don't they just fix the design flaw instead of telling everyone to add more pipe?
 
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Yeah, this "problem" was solved in a thread last year, and earlier in this one. Guess nobody except you remembered. What the heck, there's no wood-burning to speak of going on, we gotta have something to talk about. ;lol
Why don't they just fix the design flaw instead of telling everyone to add more pipe?

I tried finding that thread, no luck.. was hoping there was a picture of what he did to reference. Anyone else besides me & Mr Stover remember this?

It's not exactly an easy fix for them... they can either leave the nuts as is and design some sort of shield to go over them, but then you'd have the potential for a leak around the edges of that shield..

If they were to move the nuts somewhere else, that would also come with a whole new door frame, glass size, brackets, etc.. quite the undertaking.

At this point, I'd just be happy with an ash pan that worked. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms. ;)
 
I fired up my stove at 2:00PM, bypass at 2:30 and ran it wide open to char the load until 3:10PM. The smell of smoke is still present. I say smell because I cannot see it. It is definitely coming from the hinge area. Using a flashlight, as I look into the stove (it is turned way down) I see no smoke. The chamber static is -.05" . How can smoke leak out? No back puffing at all and no flames. Just glowing coals. The smell is apparent at all stages of firing. Since we have several people experiencing the same "smoke smell" thing we have a real problem to resolve. Our collective brainpower will do it.
I'm in the same boat.
 
My wife has a real sensitive sense of smell and notes almost every time a whiff of smoke comes out of the stove. Our stove does not leak smoke. The issue is being reported too frequently to be imagined. If the folks have an Ashford replacing another stove they should be believed if they are noting a persistent difference.

Same here . . . and she can always tell when it's time to clean out the cat boxes . . . or if I've passed gas . . . even if was 20 minutes previously.
 
I do'nt think a leaking gasket is the problem because the chamber is in a good negative pressure. Provided you meet the minimum height for your installation, increasing the flue height to increase the draw won't fix it either. My current theory is creosote, while liquid from heat, is moving through the gasket by capillary action and then vaporizing. The question is,then, how can this activity be detected to prove or disprove the theory? Polarized or UV light might show this in the form of apparent smoke. An LED flashlight, and incandescent light show nothing-the air is clear. I am looking around for a cheap source of these alternate light sources as a possible aid in detection.
 
If my theory holds true, treating the gasket with something "creophobic" would resolve this but for now, detection is the first step in the discovery process.
 
A negative pressure doesn't tell the whole story; you have to look at the air currents' paths inside the box as well. With the air wash going directly against the glass, this has the potential for a leak.

If liquid creosote is permeating through the gasket, I'd expect to see some heavy buildup of class 3 creo right on the far side. Do you have this?
 
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A negative pressure doesn't tell the whole story; you have to look at the air currents' paths inside the box as well. With the air wash going directly against the glass, this has the potential for a leak.

If liquid creosote is permeating through the gasket, I'd expect to see some heavy buildup of class 3 creo right on the far side. Do you have this?
This could be my problem. I have a good amount of creosote build up on the hinge side of my glass and on the gasket. I'll try to get a picture.
 
Here's a quick test you can do for the permeation theory: when you turn the stat down to a low burn, do you start to smell smoke soon thereafter, or does it take a while? And vice versa, when you're smelling the smoke if you crank the stat all the way open, does the smell almost instantly disappear, or does it continue? Gas moves a heck of a lot faster than liquid.
 
Here's a quick test you can do for the permeation theory: when you turn the stat down to a low burn, do you start to smell smoke soon thereafter, or does it take a while? And vice versa, when you're smelling the smoke if you crank the stat all the way open, does the smell almost instantly disappear, or does it continue? Gas moves a heck of a lot faster than liquid.
I can smell it burning low or high. But I smell it less when I'm in the coaling stages.
 
DRZ1050, I don't have any buildup / discoloration on the outside of the gasket but my stove is only 4 days old. Perhaps with time it will show. Only a very minuscule amount might be causing the odor.

Ohiojoe13 Does your gasket show any evidence if creosote passing through it to the outside edge? How old is your stove?
 
Ok, so the single wall pipe is GONE. Finally got my double wall installed. The pipe is made by Olympia. It's their Ventis pipe. Very durable, 24 gauge. Nice stuff. Fits so tight and I couldn't say that for my single wall. Had to be losing draft because of those gaps and the heat loss.

This double wall is HOT though on the outside. I thought it'd be cool to the touch! It's even hotter than my single wall up by where it connects to the ceiling. Am I imagining this?!

I regret to inform that I still have a smoke smell coming from the front of the stove, pouring out from the front of the top lid. I smell nothing around the pipe connector except the smell of the new curing paint (totally different smell, of course) I'm aware this will fade, and then I'll relive it when my Thermalox Parchment arrives and I repaint.

The following pictures will tell all...I just took them all back to back.

Ok webby, BKVP, Highbeam and ANYONE else out there who can help, thoughts? Love my stove but HATE THIS SMELL.
View attachment 156281 View attachment 156282 View attachment 156283 View attachment 156284 View attachment 156285 View attachment 156286 View attachment 156287
This may seem like a stupid idea but anyways... what if you removed your stove and then checked on the smell? At least you could find out if it's the stove or the chimney pipes. Stove looks like it would be easy to move. Just an idea.
 
A negative pressure doesn't tell the whole story; you have to look at the air currents' paths inside the box as well. With the air wash going directly against the glass, this has the potential for a leak.
This is what I was pondering a full page ago, in my post #137:
We know that a properly set up stove will be under negative pressure, relative to the room in which it's installed, and so one might think a leak in any gasket should not emit smoke. After all, your stove isn't air-tight, there's a big hole called the air inlet. However, it does seem that the air wash system, which directs inlet air across the glass, may create an area of neutral pressure right around the door, such that a door gasket leak could emit smoke. Seems unlikely, but it has been a point of discussion in the BK Performance thread.
One would think the firebox is a big open space, with a very low rate of flow through it on low burn, and so it must be nearly static. However, the air inlet into the firebox (air wash system) must be very small and restricted, to generate sufficient air velocity for that air wash system to work. You can see it working, when you have a smokey load in there, and it is impressive how the smoke will roll even at low burn. So, I suspect this is the reason smoke is smelled around the gasket area, even while you're measuring -0.05" at the cat probe hole. If those air wash inlets were opened up to the point where velocity across the back of the door were nil, the entire firebox would be sitting at -0.05", and the sealing of that gasket would be much less critical.
 
I agree, air movement within the chamber (or anywhere else) can cause counterintuitive phenomena to occur. For example, dust builds up on fan blade edges because it is the point of zero air velocity thus allowing the dust to settle or "land".
 
You need to leave the house and get some fresh air up yer nose, then come back home after half a day; You'll be able to tell then. ==c
Yeah, this "problem" was solved in a thread last year, and earlier in this one. Guess nobody except you remembered. What the heck, there's no wood-burning to speak of going on, we gotta have something to talk about. ;lol
Why don't they just fix the design flaw instead of telling everyone to add more pipe?
I recall the thread. Here it is:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/bk-ashford-smoke-smell-discovery.143603/
The change is not trivial. Maybe there needs to be a 30.2 or better gasket sealing technique?
 
DRZ1050, I don't have any buildup / discoloration on the outside of the gasket but my stove is only 4 days old. Perhaps with time it will show. Only a very minuscule amount might be causing the odor.

Ohiojoe13 Does your gasket show any evidence if creosote passing through it to the outside edge? How old is your stove?
I think the fact it is happening on a brand new stove somewhat disproves the creosote leakage theory.
 
DRZ1050, I don't have any buildup / discoloration on the outside of the gasket but my stove is only 4 days old. Perhaps with time it will show. Only a very minuscule amount might be causing the odor.

Ohiojoe13 Does your gasket show any evidence if creosote passing through it to the outside edge? How old is your stove?
I don't see any passing through. You can see where there is creosote on the gasket but you can see where is stops. There is an indent in the the gasket where it presses up against the stove and that's where the creosote stops.

I had my stove installed July of this year. I have burned maybe 2/3 to 1 cord.
 
Do any other stove brands have these retainer nuts under the gasket?
 
Maybe. Not Jotul or PE models that I know of.
 
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