I just bought a Pacific Energy model 'D' insert, used; and it keep a fire going nicely all night. I'm using seasoned, covered, relatively dry oak and the thing wont even warm up the room that it's in. I'm a little desperate to figure this out as we just bought the house and we don't have central heat. I'm wondering if the blower is working properly. When I turn it on, I can hear it, but I can't feel any air coming away from the stove into the room. Additionally, I'm wondering if all my heat is going up the chimney (the stove gets a nice hot fire going and the heat has to go somewhere, and I know it's not going into my house). I don't yet have any trim around the stove and I'm wondering if all the heat is drafting up the chimney somehow around the liner. There's a cap at the top but nothing at the bottom to keep that from happening. Any thoughts? Anyone?
Help, my insert isn't putting out any heat!
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
Heftiger
Feeling the Heat
Also check out this thread that's going on right now. You'll see a lot of the questions that people are going to ask you before they can help:
My Quadra Fire wood insert is not heating the house.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/index.p...wood-insert-is-not-heating-the-house..151099/
My Quadra Fire wood insert is not heating the house.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/index.p...wood-insert-is-not-heating-the-house..151099/
That thread was helpful, thanks! How do I go about installing a block off plate? I can stick my had inside the chimney around the liner and I feel very little heat coming off the top of the stove, does that mean my ceramic "blanket" is ok or should I still give it a good inspection? Also, I'm still not clear as to whether my blower is working properly since I feel very little air coming off the stove when the blower is on high.
I think I finally figured out how to post a photo. I'm trying to get the blower grate cover off to inspect the blower now.
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Ok, I'll bite...it's a slow work day. This insert appears to be a secondary burn design and I would guess it is not getting anywhere near hot enough to throw off any serious heat. There are probably several reasons for this...
First, as you have already discovered, a block-off plate will significantly increase your heat output as it will prevent much of it from going up and warming the inside of your cold exterior chimney. I believe there is a how-to thread somewhere here on installing one if the installer is not excited about helping you with this.
Second, from your picture it looks like you have a somewhat lazy, haphazard fire going in the box which could be because of your fire starting technique, wet wood, or insufficient draft, possibly a combination of these things. It is quite possible your wood might not be as dry as you think it is and the stove will not burn worth anything without the wood being "seasoned" (<20% moisture content). You might want to pick up a cheap moisture meter at Lowe's, harbor freight or amazon to find out for sure and test a piece after splitting it again to get at a fresh surface.
Now, what is your burning technique as far as loading, starting the fire and cutting back the air control? I'm thinking your stove top is not getting hot enough and your have no secondary burn action in the top of the firebox (fire should be rolling along the top of the firebox toward the glass). The stove top should be allowed to reach around 500 degrees before cutting back the air so the secondaries can engage. If you can't reach this temperature, there is a problem with the wood and/or draft. Once secondaries are going and air is cut back, then the fan should be engaged. If no hot air is coming from the front of the insert, then there is an additional problem with the fan or ducts being blocked. With the way that insert is sitting half out of the fireplace, even without the fan there should be some decent heat coming off of it if it's burning properly at the right temp.
Thank's my .02...I'm sure others will chime in with additional ideas and suggestions that I overlooked.
First, as you have already discovered, a block-off plate will significantly increase your heat output as it will prevent much of it from going up and warming the inside of your cold exterior chimney. I believe there is a how-to thread somewhere here on installing one if the installer is not excited about helping you with this.
Second, from your picture it looks like you have a somewhat lazy, haphazard fire going in the box which could be because of your fire starting technique, wet wood, or insufficient draft, possibly a combination of these things. It is quite possible your wood might not be as dry as you think it is and the stove will not burn worth anything without the wood being "seasoned" (<20% moisture content). You might want to pick up a cheap moisture meter at Lowe's, harbor freight or amazon to find out for sure and test a piece after splitting it again to get at a fresh surface.
Now, what is your burning technique as far as loading, starting the fire and cutting back the air control? I'm thinking your stove top is not getting hot enough and your have no secondary burn action in the top of the firebox (fire should be rolling along the top of the firebox toward the glass). The stove top should be allowed to reach around 500 degrees before cutting back the air so the secondaries can engage. If you can't reach this temperature, there is a problem with the wood and/or draft. Once secondaries are going and air is cut back, then the fan should be engaged. If no hot air is coming from the front of the insert, then there is an additional problem with the fan or ducts being blocked. With the way that insert is sitting half out of the fireplace, even without the fan there should be some decent heat coming off of it if it's burning properly at the right temp.
Thank's my .02...I'm sure others will chime in with additional ideas and suggestions that I overlooked.
Thanks for the imput! I've been starting a fire with the draft open to high then loading the box up all the way and letting it get to a pretty roaring fire before setting the draft to low and leaving it, and I keep the fan on automatic. The fire in the picture was pretty pitiful as I was letting it cool down before taking the blower cover off. It's funny, I took the cover off and now I can feel a little bit of air coming off the stove on the blower side of the stove, but nowhere else. How do I check for blocked ducts? Also, the fan and housing looks filthy with dust, do I just stick a vacuum attachment in there or should I tear the blower out and vacuum it that way?
I will definitely be getting a moisture meter and see if I can test the wood; perhaps you're right about my wood not being as dry as I want it to be. I might also see about getting one of those bundles of pre seasoned super dry fire wood from home depot and seeing if I get better results with that.
I will definitely be getting a moisture meter and see if I can test the wood; perhaps you're right about my wood not being as dry as I want it to be. I might also see about getting one of those bundles of pre seasoned super dry fire wood from home depot and seeing if I get better results with that.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
This is about as close as I can get without going out and buying a ladder. Haven't had a chance to get one since we bought the house.
browneyesvictim
New Member
You say you just bought the Pacific Energy Model D. I am gathering you bought it "used" as it looks so in the pictures. Yes. You should give it a thorough inspection! It may be missing parts or have damaged parts such as baffles, insulation, bricks, door gasket, etc. Do you have the parts/owners manual for it? Read it over carefully, and make sure everything is there and where it should be.
Was this used as a "free-standing" stove before you got it? Check the ash cleanout is not open. There should be a cover and gasket under the stove.
Read up on the Optional Outside Air Adapter when using with the blower kit installed. If so, the blower cold in fact be pushing more air in (and pumping your hot air out) than is supposed to. This would be like an Inside Air Kit Pump! (not good!)
Yes. Do the block off plate as described!
Also, make sure your air control is what you think it is. In=open Out=closed
Another thing I noticed. Does your venting liner go all the way up your chimney top cap or just part way and into the existing masonry flue? It should go all the way up for it to draft properly.
Get a stove temperature gauge and leave it on your stove. You are operating blind if you don't. You can find them on Amazon or local hearth store. I am reading in the manual this stove has an "Efficiency Indicator". It should run around in the 70% efficiency range. This could be useful (if working correctly) but just get a temperature gauge as this is just as important.
As for the blower... Get the fire hot where it should run and you will probably find you don't really need the blower. That's not your problem anyway. They are nice if you come out from the cold and wet and want an intense blast etc. but I wouldn't worry about it for now.
Hope this helps with things to check.
Was this used as a "free-standing" stove before you got it? Check the ash cleanout is not open. There should be a cover and gasket under the stove.
Read up on the Optional Outside Air Adapter when using with the blower kit installed. If so, the blower cold in fact be pushing more air in (and pumping your hot air out) than is supposed to. This would be like an Inside Air Kit Pump! (not good!)
Yes. Do the block off plate as described!
Also, make sure your air control is what you think it is. In=open Out=closed
Another thing I noticed. Does your venting liner go all the way up your chimney top cap or just part way and into the existing masonry flue? It should go all the way up for it to draft properly.
Get a stove temperature gauge and leave it on your stove. You are operating blind if you don't. You can find them on Amazon or local hearth store. I am reading in the manual this stove has an "Efficiency Indicator". It should run around in the 70% efficiency range. This could be useful (if working correctly) but just get a temperature gauge as this is just as important.
As for the blower... Get the fire hot where it should run and you will probably find you don't really need the blower. That's not your problem anyway. They are nice if you come out from the cold and wet and want an intense blast etc. but I wouldn't worry about it for now.
Hope this helps with things to check.
If the blower is running but seems clogged up with dust and junk, I would take it off the insert, blow it out with compressed air or a compressor if available or vacuum, oil the bearings if you can and clean out the passages where the blown air goes again either with a vacuum, birdfeeder cleaning brush or something similar to make sure there isn't a pile of furballs jammed somewhere.
Was the insert installed new? Is a full 6" stainless steel liner connected to the insert? Unless there is an outside air connection, it must be setup for room air. Was the quadrant air cover removed?
huauqui
Burning Hunk
Assuming your chimney cap is properly sealed at the top and there are no leaks in the masonry, you would not be losing so much heat up it that you couldn't heat the rest of the room/house. Is your liner insulated? You will definitely need to insulate if not as you have a relatively short, outside-wall chimney. And an insulated blockoff plate would be a very good idea.
The blower air should be coming out from under the top cast iron lip of the stove, shooting downward toward the floor (this is intentional.) if you don't feel anything coming out from under that lip, something is wrong with the blower. Pull off the blower intake covers on the side and vacuum out the dust.
Assuming the stove is not damaged or missing parts, my guess is you're not getting good heat due to burn technique. An infrared temperature reader is really indispensable when you're first learning to use your stove. Measure your stove's temp by taking readings from the two corners of the face plate above the door. If you can measure the top of the firebox itself, that would be best, but make sure you're not measuring the convection jacket, which will read a couple hundred degrees lower than the firebox.
The blower air should be coming out from under the top cast iron lip of the stove, shooting downward toward the floor (this is intentional.) if you don't feel anything coming out from under that lip, something is wrong with the blower. Pull off the blower intake covers on the side and vacuum out the dust.
Assuming the stove is not damaged or missing parts, my guess is you're not getting good heat due to burn technique. An infrared temperature reader is really indispensable when you're first learning to use your stove. Measure your stove's temp by taking readings from the two corners of the face plate above the door. If you can measure the top of the firebox itself, that would be best, but make sure you're not measuring the convection jacket, which will read a couple hundred degrees lower than the firebox.
Wow, I have a whole list of things to do now, thanks! The liner is new and goes all the way up; my chimney sweep said it's capped at the top. The stove is used and was installed by said chimney sweep and myself. I'm starting to get a little more heat out of it. It's a bit different than the vermont castings I grew up with. My next move will be a block off plate and making sure there is no blockage in the ducts. I took the cover off and fiddled with a few things and now I seem to be getting some air movement coming out of the blower side of the stove. Thanks for all the advice thus far. You all are great!
Another recommendation I can offer is place insulation behind an around the insert, since it's sitting in your fireplace's firebox, th convection heat coming out of the back and sides are wasted. I had similar issues with my insert when first installed and after I blocked off the back and top, my insert temperature output increased dramatically. I would get some cement board and cut to order so you can minimize any gaps to your insert.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
I plan to do this with some roxul. I'm curious if a blockoff plate is still needed if you insulate the convection jacket? I have an inside chimney, so I didn't bother with a blockoff plate when I first installed, but now I wish I had. I plan to eventually get around to it putting one in, but not if insulating the jacket will achieve the same thing and with considerably less effort.
I would strongly recommend that you do both. If you can minimize the heat loss through conduction, then your insert's firebox will require leas energy to reach the desired temperature. However, as a side caution, I don't know how your secondary air intake is designed, so you may want to be careful not to wrap your insert with free floating Roxul, since the fiber could potentially be pulled in through the secondary airflow intake and blown back into living space. Any blanket that you want to use to wrap the insert would obviously be high temperature rated and sealed.
Also you should not wrap the insert air tight either since youwill prprobably restrict the air intake for either primary or secondary burn process. I had very little space on the side, but a lot of gap in the back and it's open to outside through ash dump, so I cut Roxul to size and stuffed it in the back and put cement board in front of those Roxul. I blocked off the top with a combination of Roxul and insulation, but probably will build a cement board plate o top as well when time permits.
That would be my suggestion.
Good luck.
Also you should not wrap the insert air tight either since youwill prprobably restrict the air intake for either primary or secondary burn process. I had very little space on the side, but a lot of gap in the back and it's open to outside through ash dump, so I cut Roxul to size and stuffed it in the back and put cement board in front of those Roxul. I blocked off the top with a combination of Roxul and insulation, but probably will build a cement board plate o top as well when time permits.
That would be my suggestion.
Good luck.
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Oh, go and get a moisture meter from Lowe's or HD and measure a piece of the firewood by bring it into your home for a few hours and split it in equal half, then measure the FACE side of the freshly split firewood.
The reason to bring the wood inside and let it warm up is that freezed firewood would give you false moisture reading because the water is crystallized.
If your wood is not dry enough, which is below 20%, then it is also impacting the heat output; however, I strongly suspect that your blower is not functioning properly, based on what you described in the original post.
The reason to bring the wood inside and let it warm up is that freezed firewood would give you false moisture reading because the water is crystallized.
If your wood is not dry enough, which is below 20%, then it is also impacting the heat output; however, I strongly suspect that your blower is not functioning properly, based on what you described in the original post.
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