Too much heat

Pellet rick · Nov 25, 2015

Hi guys. This year in order to get more heat from my Englander pdv 25 that in an unfinished basement I built a insulated room around the stove. My heat radiates up and thru the floor rejesters. It works great and produced alot of heat up stairs from the super heated basement . roughly the temp is 120 degs in the room around the stove. Now for my question. Is it possible to overheat the stove or electronics by running in a space that hot?.

Bioburner · Nov 25, 2015

Yes
Will depend on the stove too. There's a over temp switch that may switch the stove off if the exchanger get to warm and then there's a issue of the control board getting to warm. Most stoves are designed to run in a normal room temps.

Pellet rick · Nov 25, 2015

Bioburner said:
Yes
Will depend on the stove too. There's a over temp switch that may switch the stove off if the exchanger get to warm and then there's a issue of the control board getting to warm. Most stoves are designed to run in a normal room temps.

Pellet rick · Nov 25, 2015

Thanks. Guess maybe it was a bad idea

Bioburner · Nov 25, 2015

Get a fan and move off some of the hot air and get it down under a hundred and should be ok.
When I run the basement Bixby stove I curtain off two thirds of the basement and its fan pushes towards the stairwell.

Pellet rick · Nov 25, 2015

Bioburner said:
Get a fan and move off some of the hot air and get it down under a hundred and should be ok.
When I run the basement Bixby stove I curtain off two thirds of the basement and its fan pushes towards the stairwell.

Thanks .I opened the door and it down to just over 100.

Harvey Schneider · Nov 26, 2015

If I am reading your post correctly, you have open registers connecting the basement room to your living space on the first floor. That is unsafe, and is a violation of building code just about everywhere.
The danger is that a fire in the lower level can rise through the registers into the room above.
I believe that there are self closing registers that shut off at high temperatures. These may satisfy your local building code, depending on how your building inspector or fire marshal is feeling that day. In my town, the building inspector would not tolerate any open perforations in the floor.
As to your question; yes the electronics will be the first to suffer from prolonged high temperatures. In particular, the triac (or other line Voltage switch) that controls the igniter is likely to fail as it is dissipating the most heat of any component on the control board.
Check the operating environment spec in your owners manual. It should tell you the max environment temperature the stove was designed to operate in.

Harman Lover 007 · Nov 26, 2015

Harvey Schneider said:
If I am reading your post correctly, you have open registers connecting the basement room to your living space on the first floor. That is unsafe, and is a violation of building code just about everywhere.
The danger is that a fire in the lower level can rise through the registers into the room above.
I believe that there are self closing registers that shut off at high temperatures. These may satisfy your local building code, depending on how your building inspector or fire marshal is feeling that day. In my town, the building inspector would not tolerate any open perforations in the floor.
As to your question; yes the electronics will be the first to suffer from prolonged high temperatures. In particular, the triac (or other line Voltage switch) that controls the igniter is likely to fail as it is dissipating the most heat of any component on the control board.
Check the operating environment spec in your owners manual. It should tell you the max environment temperature the stove was designed to operate in.

We have this discussion every year when someone brings up floor registers....those of us that have them, including me, are well aware of the risk. Mine is 10"x 10" and has a fan built into it. It really helps get the heat up to the second floor. The downside is the cool air draft that comes down the stairs....
If in the event of a fire in my downstairs, this small opening in the ceiling pales in comparison to the chimney my stairway creates for the fire to travel upstairs....

reallyte · Nov 26, 2015

Harman Lover 007 said:
We have this discussion every year when someone brings up floor registers....those of us that have them, including me, are well aware of the risk. Mine is 10"x 10" and has a fan built into it. It really helps get the heat up to the second floor. The downside is the cool air draft that comes down the stairs....
If in the event of a fire in my downstairs, this small opening in the ceiling pales in comparison to the chimney my stairway creates for the fire to travel upstairs....

Agreed. Within reason it's safe enough. My code officer doesn't care at all unless I modify the structure of the house.

Pellet rick · Nov 26, 2015

Harman Lover 007 said:
We have this discussion every year when someone brings up floor registers....those of us that have them, including me, are well aware of the risk. Mine is 10"x 10" and has a fan built into it. It really helps get the heat up to the second floor. The downside is the cool air draft that comes down the stairs....
If in the event of a fire in my downstairs, this small opening in the ceiling pales in comparison to the chimney my stairway creates for the fire to travel upstairs....

I agree with Harmen on this. As far as my codes are, my house is older that used to have coal heat and with that I had floor resisters already in my house. I just installed one above the stove for a more direct convection. As far as the electronics I will take the small room apart and just decide my basement to make it a little smaller with an insulated wall insted

reallyte said:
Agreed. Within reason it's safe enough. My code officer doesn't care at all unless I modify the structure of the house.

I agree . it is definitely structurely safe. I don't believe in cutting joists if at all possible. I was more worried about the electrics within the stove overheating. Today I tore done the small room and just partitioned off part of the basement. We will see how that works. The problem I have is my wife . lol. She tries to work it like a furnace, by turning it down at night and we loose the heat instead of maintaining the heat

funflyer · Nov 26, 2015

Pellet rick said:
The problem I have is my wife . lol. She tries to work it like a furnace, by turning it down at night and we loose the heat instead of maintaining the heat

A t-stat would cure that problem and also keep from overheating the small room.

Harvey Schneider said:
That is unsafe, and is a violation of building code just about everywhere.

Please provide a reference, or is this just your opinion.

Peterfield · Nov 27, 2015

Harman Lover 007 said:
We have this discussion every year when someone brings up floor registers....those of us that have them, including me, are well aware of the risk. Mine is 10"x 10" and has a fan built into it. It really helps get the heat up to the second floor. The downside is the cool air draft that comes down the stairs....
If in the event of a fire in my downstairs, this small opening in the ceiling pales in comparison to the chimney my stairway creates for the fire to travel upstairs....

That's all fine and the physics of moving heat that way are understood but if one is unfortunate enough to have a fire, their insurance company will be only too happy to point out the zoning violation right before they deny your claim for damages. Probably won't happen but anyone knowingly violating zoning regulations should be aware of possible negative consequences.

Harvey Schneider · Nov 27, 2015

funflyer said:
A t-stat would cure that problem and also keep from overheating the small room.

Please provide a reference, or is this just your opinion.

I haven't done any searches on local code, so I can't quote chapter and paragraph. I can say that I have been told by a Fire Marshall in Massachusetts and a Building Inspector in Connecticut that all perforations in the floor have to be sealed. I am sure that old structures that are dependent on gravity heating are grandfathered.
If you read the IBC (International Building Code) with regard to fire blocking and fire stopping, it should be obvious that the intent is that there be no pathways for fire to move from floor to floor. Open stairwells are obviously outside the intent of this section.
The code assumes that any penetration (duct in this case) is non-combustible and closed to the environment.

From the IBC:
"
714.4.2 Nonfire-resistance-rated assemblies.
Penetrations of nonfire-resistance-rated floor or floor/ceiling assemblies or the ceiling membrane of a nonfire-resistance-rated roof/ceiling assembly shall meet the requirements of Section 713 or shall comply with Section 714.4.2.1 or 714.4.2.2.
714.4.2.1 Noncombustible penetrating items.
Noncombustible penetrating items that connect not more than five stories are permitted, provided that the annular space is filled to resist the free passage of flame and the products of combustion with an approved noncombustible material or with a fill, void or cavity material that is tested and classified for use in through-penetration firestop systems.
714.4.2.2 Penetrating items.
Penetrating items that connect not more than two stories are permitted, provided that the annular space is filled with an approved material to resist the free passage of flame and the products of combustion.
"
(Color emphasis mine)
You might also want to look at chapter 713.

Feel free to do as you please. You can get away with it as long as you don't have a fire or an inspection, or try to sell your house.

tiger · Nov 30, 2015

Pellet rick said:
roughly the temp is 120 degs in the room around the stove.

My wife will be right over; she'll want to sit right next to it.

Fairwind · Nov 30, 2015

120 degrees is a little too warm in the "Stove Room".. The completely unattended stove could easily overheat, unnoticed, and cause a problem..

DBCOOPER · Nov 30, 2015

You'll also find in that code that the stairways between floors need to be fire rated as well as the doors because that code is for commercial multi tenant buildings. How many houses do you know of that have five floors?

Misch · Jan 1, 2016

Harvey Schneider said:
I haven't done any searches on local code, so I can't quote chapter and paragraph. I can say that I have been told by a Fire Marshall in Massachusetts and a Building Inspector in Connecticut that all perforations in the floor have to be sealed. I am sure that old structures that are dependent on gravity heating are grandfathered.
If you read the IBC (International Building Code) with regard to fire blocking and fire stopping, it should be obvious that the intent is that there be no pathways for fire to move from floor to floor. Open stairwells are obviously outside the intent of this section.
The code assumes that any penetration (duct in this case) is non-combustible and closed to the environment.

From the IBC:
"
714.4.2 Nonfire-resistance-rated assemblies.
Penetrations of nonfire-resistance-rated floor or floor/ceiling assemblies or the ceiling membrane of a nonfire-resistance-rated roof/ceiling assembly shall meet the requirements of Section 713 or shall comply with Section 714.4.2.1 or 714.4.2.2.
714.4.2.1 Noncombustible penetrating items.
Noncombustible penetrating items that connect not more than five stories are permitted, provided that the annular space is filled to resist the free passage of flame and the products of combustion with an approved noncombustible material or with a fill, void or cavity material that is tested and classified for use in through-penetration firestop systems.
714.4.2.2 Penetrating items.
Penetrating items that connect not more than two stories are permitted, provided that the annular space is filled with an approved material to resist the free passage of flame and the products of combustion.
"
(Color emphasis mine)
You might also want to look at chapter 713.

Feel free to do as you please. You can get away with it as long as you don't have a fire or an inspection, or try to sell your house.

What are some of the names of the approved noncumbustible materials?

Misch · Jan 1, 2016

Misch said:
What are some of the names of the approved noncumbustible materials?

for ceilings

Harvey Schneider · Jan 3, 2016

Misch said:
for ceilings

I am sure of mineral wool and fire stop rated urethane foam (orange). I am not sure about fiberglass, but I think that it should be good. Best to ask your local authorities what they will accept.

Pete Zahria · Jan 3, 2016

Pellet rick said:
my house is older that used to have coal heat and with that I had floor resisters already in my house

As did most old houses before more modern furnaces came to play.
Like mine..

I wonder if the code requires you to have door closers on your basement door?

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