I don't understand the OAK on my enviro empress

2006empress said:

If I want to make the connection, what pipe should I use?

If I bought http://www.thetoolworkshop.com/englandsstoveworksoutsideairpelletkitpu-oak.aspx, I could just cut the flex pipe and use part of it to connect the combustion chamber to the housing, and part to connect the housing to the wall, correct?

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This what the install instructions for the M55 state;

When connecting to an outside fresh air source, do not use plastic or combustible pipe. A 3" minimum (76 mm) ID (inside diameter) steel, aluminum or copper pipe or ducting should be used. The inlet must have a screen installed. It is recommended, when you are installing a fresh air system, to keep the number of bends in the pipe to a minimum.

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The product you listed appears to be 3" ID so it should work.

My daughter is in a dorm at a state college...now granted the dorm was built probably close to 100 years ago, a big brick residence.

Every time I go up for whatever reason, no matter what the temperature, every single dorm window is open at least 2", sometimes 12". We're talking well over 100 dorm room windows. Due to the fact that they can't control the interior temps. And the interior of the building is uncomfortably hot.

Now, I believe that each and every student should have some control over their comfort...

But the fact that I'm paying to heat the outside of that building with what we pay for tuition and residence fees...not to mention that I'm also paying state taxes that support this foolishness, somewhat makes me mad.

My stove has an OAK. I believe it makes a difference in my close to 100 year old house.

womaus said:

My daughter is in a dorm at a state college...now granted the dorm was built probably close to 100 years ago, a big brick residence.

Every time I go up for whatever reason, no matter what the temperature, every single dorm window is open at least 2", sometimes 12". We're talking well over 100 dorm room windows. Due to the fact that they can't control the interior temps. And the interior of the building is uncomfortably hot.

Now, I believe that each and every student should have some control over their comfort...

But the fact that I'm paying to heat the outside of that building with what we pay for tuition and residence fees...not to mention that I'm also paying state taxes that support this foolishness, somewhat makes me mad.

My stove has an OAK. I believe it makes a difference in my close to 100 year old house.

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Must be a dorm thing, my Gran daughters dorm room last year was that way too. This one was in Boston.

alternativeheat said:

Threerun, if you like having a window open in your house and if it were my call which it is not, then I don't think I'd pay for the expense of an OAK either. In that case there isn't much purpose to having an OAK.

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We always naturally ventilate the house. Absent of any mechanical fresh air exchange- we open windows even in the dead of winter. Yes- I pay a price to heat, but I'm okay with that and honestly- 1.5bags a day and an electric bill less than $125 p.mo is worth it to us. Since it is very dry where we live, and the house is basically EBB (no forced air)- if we shut it down and live- we can get pretty bad condensation build up on the inside relative to the outdoor humidity.

http://energy.gov/energysaver/ventilation

Just as a side- My friend back in WV has a child with severe mental special needs. Severe. 15-16 years ago they bought a really high quality modular home and it was set in late October and they moved in right away. House tighter than drum and it was a cold spell so they cranked the heat. They didn't know the wife was in the first trimester of pregnancy at the time and Johns Hopkins concluded the toxcity of the VOC's were a main contributor to the birth defects. Unlike stick built homes where there is normally a lag time in occupancy after carpet, stained woodwork etc is installed- modulars are built literally weeks before completion. That's a high concentration of VOC's in one shot. Very sad story, but one that really hammers it home. Living in an airtight home can have consequences. Just my .02

My wife and I simply grew up with parents and grandparents that always kept a window cracked somewhere. My dad owned an HVAC and electrical company for 25 years and he always advocated fresh air (this was in the days prior to mechanical ventilation). Just something we were ingrained to do, especially when I burned a big wood stove loaded with hardwoods...

2006empress said:

If I want to make the connection, what pipe should I use?

If I bought http://www.thetoolworkshop.com/englandsstoveworksoutsideairpelletkitpu-oak.aspx, I could just cut the flex pipe and use part of it to connect the combustion chamber to the housing, and part to connect the housing to the wall, correct?

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Depends on what are you connecting to on the combustion chamber, is it a open hole or a flange and what size. Might want to use exhaust pipe inside the stove. I really don't know how hot that pipe will get at the connection to the combustion chamber. maybe someone with more knowledge can help. here's an example of the exhaust pipe you could use inside it's only $7.99
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/nickson-flex-o-pipe-2-inch-id-540201/5600782-P#fragment-2

Not to pick nits or start another argument, but I don't think combustion fans make 300 cfm. More like somewhere between 65 and 100 cfm. Still a lot, though.

This type of OAK will actually work, based on pressure/vacuum physics. Your home acts as a sealed box, with an ideal interior pressure/vacuum of 0....
With an outside air connection close to where the stove gets its outside air from, as soon as the stove draws enough CFM from your home and creates a slight vacuum, then the outside connection will become dominant. In order to draft through a pipe, the presence of pressure, or vacuum needs to be there.

doghouse said:

Not to pick nits or start another argument, but I don't think combustion fans make 300 cfm. More like somewhere between 65 and 100 cfm. Still a lot, though.

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My Ecoteck Ravelli Elena combustion blower is rated at 97 CFM. This is the same unit used in the Rika Austroflamm Integra stoves.

Cory S said:

This type of OAK will actually work, based on pressure/vacuum physics. Your home acts as a sealed box, with an ideal interior pressure/vacuum of 0....
With an outside air connection close to where the stove gets its outside air from, as soon as the stove draws enough CFM from your home and creates a slight vacuum, then the outside connection will become dominant. In order to draft through a pipe, the presence of pressure, or vacuum needs to be there.

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That's all true but I think the concern was when the stove is not in use that the hole will let in cold air. Probably spilling out the bottom of the stove since it's not a sealed system in that stove.

doghouse said:

Not to pick nits or start another argument, but I don't think combustion fans make 300 cfm. More like somewhere between 65 and 100 cfm. Still a lot, though.

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I think you're right, I was thinking of the convection blower cfm, that's my mistake and noted. Thank's !

So we will average that out at 75 cubic feet every minute, that is 4500 cubic feet transferred out and being replaced every hour of operation.

alternativeheat said:

I think you're right, I was thinking of the convection blower cfm, that's my mistake and noted. Thank's !

So we will average that out at 75 cubic feet every minute, that is 4500 cubic feet transferred out and being replaced every hour of operation.

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No, maybe 30 CFM at the most. If that.

The blower is designed to draw and maintain a vacuum on the firebox even when the fire is at it's absolute highest burn rate. The air going into your stove expands as it's heated and the CFM going up the flu might be 97 but the stove isn't pulling in even close to that much air.

checkthisout said:

No, maybe 30 CFM at the most. If that.

The blower is designed to draw and maintain a vacuum on the firebox even when the fire is at it's absolute highest burn rate. The air going into your stove expands as it's heated and the CFM going up the flu might be 97 but the stove isn't pulling in even close to that much air.

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Depends on the stove. Some ramp up the CFM's with the burn rate and are adjustable per the fuel and rate fed.

FirepotPete said:

Depends on the stove. Some ramp up the CFM's with the burn rate and are adjustable per the fuel and rate fed.

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The P61 is a heavy breather and has electronically controlled combustion air speed.

alternativeheat said:

The P61 is a heavy breather and has electronically controlled combustion air speed.

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Being I don't know that stove, that's why I posted what I did. And as far as I know very few, if any, negative draft stoves would only run on one speed all the time. Forced air (positive) stoves will.

2006empress said:

So, folks who have far more experience than I do... Should I install the OAK? Should I install it normally, meaning with the opening just, like, open? Or should I install it and rig up something to connect it directly to the burn chamber?

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I've said all I've had to say on OAK. We all had to figure out our needs along the way, your turn now LOL !

Wanting to defer to the knowledge and wisdom from the Cape, I will only add this:

Will the OAK cost you less than $100 and get you an outside air connection directly from the outside to the back of the stove (piped to the stove, not just near the stove)?

If yes, do it. You'll get $100 worth of comfort over a short amount of time, and you will save $100 in pellet cost over time. And those will keep repeating. And repeating.

2006empress said:

Like I said before, we have a relatively drafty house. It's well insulated (for a house from the 1800s) but with original windows (which I have not yet reconditioned, so they are not 100% airtight), and with old iron latches on the doors through which you can literally see daylight.

All of that said, I went and installed an OAK. It wan't easy. I used some steal tubing, high temp silicone, high temp aluminum tape, and an OAK kit. All in, well under $100. It's definitely not airtight, but the ~majority~ of the air the stove is pulling is now coming from outside.

I had NO idea how much of a breeze the stove was causing in my living room before. The difference is huge. I loved having the pellet stove before. Now, it's so much better. My kitchen (far way from the stove, has two doors to the outside with old latches through which you can see the outside) has gone up in temperature considerably. I definitely come down on the pro-OAK side of the debate now.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this conversation. Hopefully it will help someone else in the future. INSTALL THE OAK.

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Excellent...this is the thread I'll point others to when they ask "what is the need".

Wonderful news !

Bart says I'm not allowed to keep score on how many times someone asks about whether they should have an OAK, so I'm glad we have another convert. Score one for science!

Wilbur Feral said:

Bart says I'm not allowed to keep score on how many times someone asks about whether they should have an OAK, so I'm glad we have another convert. Score one for science!

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did you connect the oak to the burn chamber or just to the back of the stove?