dampening temperature swings and distributing heat

twd000 · Jan 19, 2016

Clydeburner said:
My manual states not to connect the blower to a duct work set up. I would think this to be in the case of combustion gasses and not allowing them to be blown through the duct sysytem....
I would use the blower on the stove and run a duct from the main living area to the basement letting the cooler air naturally drop which will allow the hot air blowing off the stove to rise and supply heat to the main living space, replacing the denser cool air.
You may be able to use a small online fan to help move the cooler air towards the stove.

Yes, I saw that warning too but I interpreted it referring to your HVAC forced hot air system. My thinking is that if I have combustion gases leaking out of my stove, I have a dangerous situation regardless of hooking up a blower or duct, etc. That's what my CO detector is for. Or are you thinking that the negative pressure of a blower could actual suck combustion gases out of the stove, that would normally go up the flue? How many psi are we talking about here? I was picturing a pretty benign flow rate, like a computer fan.

One more question - how wide is the blower assembly? I have about 8" clearance between the rear of my stove and a cinder block wall.

colin.p · Jan 19, 2016

I love threads like this. Gets the "little grey cells" going. I will watch this thread with interest,

Clydeburner · Jan 19, 2016

twd000 said:
Yes, I saw that warning too but I interpreted it referring to your HVAC forced hot air system. My thinking is that if I have combustion gases leaking out of my stove, I have a dangerous situation regardless of hooking up a blower or duct, etc. That's what my CO detector is for. Or are you thinking that the negative pressure of a blower could actual suck combustion gases out of the stove, that would normally go up the flue? How many psi are we talking about here? I was picturing a pretty benign flow rate, like a computer fan.

One more question - how wide is the blower assembly? I have about 8" clearance between the rear of my stove and a cinder block wall.

I feel that you are thinking correct, I don't feel that there would be any ill effects by having the blower force the heated air through the duct as you have described. I'm not sure how this might be accomplished as getting the blower directly connected to the duct, that was why my thoughts were to use it as a cold air returning to the stove room and allow the blower to work as designed and have the heated air rise through the stairwell. Your description and idea would probably work well unless the duct is unsulated you may lose more heat in the chimney chase then it may provide to the upstairs. I would try it as a cold return and see the results, if they are not adequate then maybe try and reverse it as a hot air supply.
I am not familiar with your blower assembly as to the size or dimensions and as long as your stove is tight and not leaking now the blower should make no difference weather it was blowing or sucking the air across it.

twd000 · Jan 19, 2016

the wheels are turning, boys!

http://www.lowes.com/pd_481266-85334-DEI-0625-6_1z0uauh__?productId=50401792&pl=1

What about fashioning a "cold-air-intake" from the first floor to the basement, via the ash cleanouts? Run a length of insulated duct through the chimney chase and plumb it directly to the blower intake. May require some creative sheetmetal work to get the transition sealed up.

Then the blower is constantly supplied with "cold" air from the first floor, instead of pre-heated basement air. The cold air is forced over the stove walls and out the top vent. The hot air coming off the stove is slightly pressurized, and that pressure is equalized by flowing up the basement steps back onto the first floor.

Clydeburner · Jan 19, 2016

Clydeburner said:
I feel that you are thinking correct, I don't feel that there would be any ill effects by having the blower force the heated air through the duct as you have described. I'm not sure how this might be accomplished as getting the blower directly connected to the duct, that was why my thoughts were to use it as a cold air returning to the stove room and allow the blower to work as designed and have the heated air rise through the stairwell. Your description and idea would probably work well unless the duct is unsulated you may lose more heat in the chimney chase then it may provide to the upstairs. I would try it as a cold return and see the results, if they are not adequate then maybe try and reverse it as a hot air supply.
I am not familiar with your blower assembly as to the size or dimensions and as long as your stove is tight and not leaking now the blower should make no difference weather it was blowing or sucking the air across it.

twd000 said:
the wheels are turning, boys!

http://www.lowes.com/pd_481266-85334-DEI-0625-6_1z0uauh__?productId=50401792&pl=1

What about fashioning a "cold-air-intake" from the first floor to the basement, via the ash cleanouts? Run a length of insulated duct through the chimney chase and plumb it directly to the blower intake. May require some creative sheetmetal work to get the transition sealed up.

Then the blower is constantly supplied with "cold" air from the first floor, instead of pre-heated basement air. The cold air is forced over the stove walls and out the top vent. The hot air coming off the stove is slightly pressurized, and that pressure is equalized by flowing up the basement steps back onto the first floor.

That's what I was thinking also. This may end up cooling the stove too much, that may be the only problem with a direct connect set up

twd000 · Jan 19, 2016

yes, I may need to put a thermostat on the firebox like another user suggested. Turn the cooling fan off if the firebox drops too low in temperature. Need to keep that catalyst active, otherwise the distribution of the "extra" heat becomes moot

Clydeburner · Jan 19, 2016

twd000 said:
yes, I may need to put a thermostat on the firebox like another user suggested. Turn the cooling fan off if the firebox drops too low in temperature. Need to keep that catalyst active, otherwise the distribution of the "extra" heat becomes moot

You could always get a PID controller and a surface mount thermocouple the PID controller could operate the blower in whatever temperature ranges you had it programmed for. I sure hope the hamster doesn't get tired and fall off the wheel ;lol

twd000 · Mar 7, 2016

Well, after a heroic effort, I'm declaring failure in this battle. I got the Dutchwest OEM blower and attached it to the stove, and remove the convection block plates. It definitely blew some hot air around the basement, but didn't really push it up the stairs.

Next, I bought an insulated duct from Lowes, 4" inner diameter. It is a wire-wound plastic core, wrapped with 1" fiberglass, wrapped with black plastic. I ran it through the ash cleanout on the main floor, through the shared chimney void, and out the ash cleanout in the basement. I taped it to the inlet of the blower with some HVAC tape. I got the stove up to temperature, then turned the blower on high. It was definitely moving some air; I felt the suction pulling the intake on the main floor, and the heated air convecting off the top front of the stove. But, still no significant heat making it up to the main floor, even with the basement door open. I'm not sure if it the heated air was leaking into the small nooks and crannies of the finished basement, but I ran it that way for 24 hours, and the thermostat on the main floor didn't budge at all.

So it was a fun experiment, but I'm back to saving up for a main-floor woodstove; this basement stove just isn't going to be practical. Thanks for your help on this

Clydeburner · Mar 7, 2016

twd000 said:
Well, after a heroic effort, I'm declaring failure in this battle. I got the Dutchwest OEM blower and attached it to the stove, and remove the convection block plates. It definitely blew some hot air around the basement, but didn't really push it up the stairs.

Next, I bought an insulated duct from Lowes, 4" inner diameter. It is a wire-wound plastic core, wrapped with 1" fiberglass, wrapped with black plastic. I ran it through the ash cleanout on the main floor, through the shared chimney void, and out the ash cleanout in the basement. I taped it to the inlet of the blower with some HVAC tape. I got the stove up to temperature, then turned the blower on high. It was definitely moving some air; I felt the suction pulling the intake on the main floor, and the heated air convecting off the top front of the stove. But, still no significant heat making it up to the main floor, even with the basement door open. I'm not sure if it the heated air was leaking into the small nooks and crannies of the finished basement, but I ran it that way for 24 hours, and the thermostat on the main floor didn't budge at all.

So it was a fun experiment, but I'm back to saving up for a main-floor woodstove; this basement stove just isn't going to be practical. Thanks for your help on this.

Can you try and switch the duct to the blower output to see if it can force the air up through the chimney space to the first floor? Not sure how well it might work but may be worth a try being you have already put the effort into running the duct

twd000 · Mar 7, 2016

I thought about trying that, but I'm already in a fairly gray area relative to building code and safety. I'm not too excited about pushing hot gas through a plastic duct (I couldn't find a max temp rating on the label but I assume it is designed for furnace output temps)
http://www.lowes.com/pd_481265-85334-DEI-0425-6_1z0uauh__?productId=50401790&pl=1
It is a UL 181 class 1 air duct

Even if I wanted to do that, I would have to figure out a way to reverse the fan. Catching the heated air on the output side wouldn't really work. The woodstove design is basically a box inside a box. The forced air blows between the two layers and exits a 1/2" tall by 30" long gap between the top and the front of the stove. Any ducting to redirect that would be pretty ghetto.

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