Mulciber article in the Smithsonian

It was a big surprise to have to click away multiple full page adds on a taxpayer funded website just in order to see the article...

Anyways, electronic control has been vital to many of the modern performance improvements in other devices, so I've been expecting it to start showing up in stoves for a while. But it might not be an easy transition for an industry used to achieving reliability and longevity through simplicity and lots of steel.

It's very easy for an engineer to approach a new field with a good idea that others don't think of because they're set in their ways, but run afoul of the many less obvious issues the old timers have a grasp of, like heat problems, ash contamination, thermal cycling, etc. Hopefully, these guys approach their design with the forethought to make anything novel they add easily replaceable, so even if they do encounter unexpected troubles, they can be easily fixed to keep the stove useful for 20+ years.

They have the stoves out in the field beta testing them, I am sure they are getting some good feedback at the moment

begreen said:

The Smithsonian magazine is a subscription paid publication.

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Yep, and now owned by Rupert Murdoch (Fox News).

Ack, yes, you are right!

FYI

I read the article and it is exciting to hear what they are doing, also as stated in the article they are looking for ways to make it self powered which would be a very good idea.

But, viewing the comments section of the article shows a great misunderstanding of wood heat.
One person even asking "What medical studies have been done on humans, that are placed directly in the path of this wood stove's fumes?"
I wonder if this person would like to participate in a study of what happens to humans directly in the path of gas stove fumes?
Or I wonder if they realize that humans have used wood for heat ever since the discovery of fire.

MishMouse said:

I wonder if this person would like to participate in a study of what happens to humans directly in the path of gas stove fumes?

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More stupefying angle - why would they think putting a human in the direct path of any stove fumes should ever be done?

Electronic controls are inevitable. When I'm messing with my stove I have plenty of time to think about how the primary air should be slowly metered back on the way up and opened up on the way down. Air control as a function of combustion temperature.

I've also got mixed feelings about it. As complexity goes up, reliability tends to go down. One reason I don't have a pellet stove is the worry about the electricity dependence during an extended power outage.

i really don't think you need electronic controls, that just makes it overly complex and one more thing that can go wrong. i'm a big fan of KISS. i'm honestly surprised that more people don't try to imitate BK's bimetallic air control, i'm guessing they must have some kinda patent on it ?

They would have to design the stove around the bimetallic control, most stove companies do not want to do the R&D on it. It is a "simple" device, that many stove companies used at one time, but for lack of demand they ditched it and went to a user controlled air control. Vermont Castings had it on many stoves but not anymore. Only a guess but the investors probably saw it as a potential liability?

At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, that BK thermostat is frigging great and I wouldn't want a stove without one now that I've tried it.

On the other hand, if I could get a stove where I could set a ROOM temperature on the thermostat and the stove would regulate input air and fan speed to hit that room temperature, that would be tempting indeed, if it worked well.

edyit said:

i really don't think you need electronic controls, that just makes it overly complex and one more thing that can go wrong. i'm a big fan of KISS. i'm honestly surprised that more people don't try to imitate BK's bimetallic air control, i'm guessing they must have some kinda patent on it ?

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When I was a kid my parents had an Ashley Automatic that had a bimetal spring on the air intake door. The stove was in a thinly insulated trailer in VT.

The wind would blow, and then you'd hear a creak as the intake door opened and the fire would wake up. It was crude but worked pretty good.

I see nothing wrong with using an electronic circuit on a wood stove to make it more efficient if the right people are involved. Clearly the pellet stove industry hasn't mastered it yet but there are many electronics in our daily life that are so dependable we just take them for granted.

Could stoves become much mor efficient than they are now without taking that step?

You could actually build a stove that runs off a battery, and charges the battery from a thermoelectric generator. A 50w TE generator would probably be plenty to run a blower fan and whatever electronics are in the stove. The OEM would be looking at at least a few hundred dollars in off the shelf components per stove, which could mean $1000 or more added to the retail, I'd imagine. The thermoelectric modules and lithium batteries themselves are not cheap, though small ARM industral computers are a dime a dozen these days.

Jags said:

Quadrafire has one out currently. Pricey and I have yet to see a review, but they have one.

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The Adventure 3 looks dead sexy. I don't see any reviews of it either. Time will tell, hope it catches on.

Using an thermoelectric generator to power the stove's electronics would be great. The BioLite Campstove uses a thermoelectric generator to change a cell phone or small computer as well as run a fan. Getting 0.2 grams emission per hour using a fan to precisely control air flow is amazing.

begreen said:

That's being researched. It would still need a battery for startup, but maybe not a problem if the TEG can generate enough current to charge it.

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You can buy a 50 watt TEG to sit on your stovetop right now. TEGs see better efficiencies with higher differential temperatures, so the engineer who designs a new stove could potentially coax a lot more watts out of the same hardware than the engineer who designs an add-on unit to ait on top of the stove.